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Conversation about the Tribulation and God`s Wrath.


Marilyn C

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Daniel 11:36, indeed the Lord will take out (rapture) all believers just before He brings His wrath and judgment upon the earth. However, He does this at some point in the second half of the week after the great tribulation is cut short. This takes place at His second coming (parousia)

 

Not true .... the Lord will take out His own just before He brings the coming tribulation period upon a world of unbelief

7 years of tribulation will begin here [Revelation 6:12-17]

This period will end here [Revelation 19:11-1921]

No true Christian will enter the coming tribulation period of 7 years and these will return with Jesus Christ to rule

Get your story straightened out so that you can participate

If not and you are here when the tribulation begins you will enter His period of wrath and will have to repent in order to be saved [Revelation 3:15-19]  

Edited by Daniel 11:36
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2 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Steve,

Thank you for writing your thoughts in point form. I agree with a lot of what you have written. However there are a couple of points I would like you to please back up with scripture.

1. God`s elect. Israel is also called God`s elect, so can you give scripture/s to back up your thoughts that it is the B/C?

2. God`s purpose. What purpose do you see that the B/C has to go through the trib?

Thank you, Marilyn.

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Marilyn C, every elect Jew today is a part of the Body of Christ. As is every Gentile believer. The church is the elect, the church is the chosen. The church is made up of all true believers in Jesus Christ.

In the New Testament:

There are elect angels

(1Ti 5:21)  I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

Jesus is said to be elect or chosen

(Luk 23:35)  And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.

(1Pe 2:4)  To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

(1Pe 2:6)  Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

John wrote to the elect lady and spoke of an elect sister

(2Jn 1:1)  The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;

(2Jn 1:13)  The children of thy elect sister greet thee. Amen.

The apostles were chosen

(Joh 15:16)  Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

The church is the elect in the following passages

(These elect in Matt 24 and Mark 13 must be the church because Jesus implies that it is not possible for the very elect to be deceived (Matt 24:24) and Israel remains blind (deceivable) in part until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in and there are still gentiles (Rev 7:9) being added to Christ in the great tribulation.)

(Mat 24:22)  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

(Mat 24:24)  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

(Mat 24:31)  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

(Mar 13:20)  And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

(Mar 13:22)  For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

(Mar 13:27)  And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

(Luk 18:7)  And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

(Rom 8:33)  Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

(Rom 11:5)  Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. (These are Jewish believers who are part of the church)

(Rom 11:7)  What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

(Col 3:12)  Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

(1Th 1:4)  Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

(2Ti 2:10)  Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

(Tit 1:1)  Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

(1Pe 1:2)  Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

(Mat 20:16)  So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

(Mat 22:14)  For many are called, but few are chosen.

(Rom 16:13)  Salute Rufus chosen in the Lord, and his mother and mine.

(1Pe 2:9)  But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

(2Pe 1:10)  Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

The chosen here would also include restored Israel

(Rev 17:14)  These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Concerning your question: What purpose do you see that the B/C has to go through the trib?  I'm not certain what you mean by "B/C" so I'm going to answer as if it means believer or Christian.

First I need some clarification in your question as to what you mean by "trib"? Do you mean the whole seventieth week or do you mean the great tribulation that starts in the middle of the week? Not one single place in the Bible will you find a statement that the tribulation that takes place in the first half of the week is any different then that which has been experienced over the last ~2000 years. There has been deception, conquest, wars, and famines throughout history, there is nothing new or unparalleled about that. It is not until the middle of the week that unparalleled tribulation takes place. This unparalleled tribulation was witnessed by John after the opening of the 4th and 5th seals.

Mat 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Dan 12:1  And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Jer 30:7  Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

Today the church and Israel are both persecuted, and that persecution will continue until it is greatly intensified in the middle of the week due to the wrath of Satan (Rev 12:12). Believers are being martyred today for Christ. Today our brethren in other lands are being persecuted in some of the most brutal ways that can be imagined. However, when the abomination of desolation takes place, in the middle of the week, the persecution will be increased in scope and severity to affect every believer. None of this is the wrath of God. We are not appointed unto the wrath of God (1Thes 5:9). The wrath of God begins on the very day, those of us who are alive and remain are raptured together with the rest of us who are resurrected.

I don't presume to know God's purposes in everything, except when He has revealed them unto us. It so happens that He has told us why we suffer persecution. It is for Christ's sake that we are persecuted. Because the world hates Him, they hate us. It is our identification with Christ that brings persecution. However, it is also true that because we are identified with Him in his sufferings we shall be identified with Him in His glory. If we suffer for Him, we will reign with Him. If we deny Him, He will deny us.

It is an honour to suffer for Him

Mat 24:9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Act 5:41  And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

For reward

Luk 6:22  Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
Luk 6:23  Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

Test of genuineness

Mat 13:20  But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
Mat 13:21  Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

It is true that God also uses this time to turn rebellious Israel back to Him. Of unbelieving Israel 2/3 shall die and 1/3 shall be taken through the fire to purify them. And all Israel shall be saved.

Hallelujah

 

 

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1 hour ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Marilyn C, every elect Jew today is a part of the Body of Christ. As is every Gentile believer. The church is the elect, the church is the chosen. The church is made up of all true believers in Jesus Christ.

 

Hi Steve,

Now that is true bro, that the Body of Christ (B/C) are called out ones, God`s elect. However......Israel is God`s elect also -

`For Jacob my servant`s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called you by your name,..`(Isa. 45: 4)

So when we look at Matthew 24 we realise that the Lord is talking to Israel about their future. Remembering that the revelation of the Body of Christ was not known previously or referred to by the Lord. Thus you need more scriptures to show who are the ` elect` in Revelation.

Now for the next question. You said -

Concerning your question: What purpose do you see that the B/C has to go through the trib?  I'm not certain what you mean by "B/C" so I'm going to answer as if it means believer or Christian.

First I need some clarification in your question as to what you mean by "trib"? Do you mean the whole seventieth week or do you mean the great tribulation that starts in the middle of the week? Not one single place in the Bible will you find a statement that the tribulation that takes place in the first half of the week is any different then that which has been experienced over the last ~2000 years. There has been deception, conquest, wars, and famines throughout history, there is nothing new or unparalleled about that. It is not until the middle of the week that unparalleled tribulation takes place. This unparalleled tribulation was witnessed by John after the opening of the 4th and 5th seals.

You think that the first part of the trib, is no different than any other time over last 2000 years. So let`s have a closer look (Rev.8)

1. 1/3 of trees, grass burnt up, with fire and blood upon the earth.

2. 1/3 part of sea - blood. 1/3 creatures in the sea die and 1/3 ships destroyed.

3. 1/3 of rivers, fountains of waters, became bitter.

4. 1/3 of sun and moon and stars darkened.

Mmmm don`t know if I`ve heard or seen that on the 6 o`clock news!

 

regards, Marilyn.

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These first 4 trumpets tell of the Lord's judgment upon the earth

The fifth, sixth, and seventh will come next

Edited by Daniel 11:36
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4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Steve,

Now that is true bro, that the Body of Christ (B/C) are called out ones, God`s elect. However......Israel is God`s elect also -

`For Jacob my servant`s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called you by your name,..`(Isa. 45: 4)

So when we look at Matthew 24 we realise that the Lord is talking to Israel about their future. Remembering that the revelation of the Body of Christ was not known previously or referred to by the Lord. Thus you need more scriptures to show who are the ` elect` in Revelation.

Now for the next question. You said -

Concerning your question: What purpose do you see that the B/C has to go through the trib?  I'm not certain what you mean by "B/C" so I'm going to answer as if it means believer or Christian.

First I need some clarification in your question as to what you mean by "trib"? Do you mean the whole seventieth week or do you mean the great tribulation that starts in the middle of the week? Not one single place in the Bible will you find a statement that the tribulation that takes place in the first half of the week is any different then that which has been experienced over the last ~2000 years. There has been deception, conquest, wars, and famines throughout history, there is nothing new or unparalleled about that. It is not until the middle of the week that unparalleled tribulation takes place. This unparalleled tribulation was witnessed by John after the opening of the 4th and 5th seals.

You think that the first part of the trib, is no different than any other time over last 2000 years. So let`s have a closer look (Rev.8)

1. 1/3 of trees, grass burnt up, with fire and blood upon the earth.

2. 1/3 part of sea - blood. 1/3 creatures in the sea die and 1/3 ships destroyed.

3. 1/3 of rivers, fountains of waters, became bitter.

4. 1/3 of sun and moon and stars darkened.

Mmmm don`t know if I`ve heard or seen that on the 6 o`clock news!

 

regards, Marilyn.

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Marilyn C, you are missing the fact that the wrath of God, expressed in the form of the trumpet and vial judgments take place in the beginning of the day of the Lord. The day of the Lord is the day of His wrath and more. The day of the Lord cannot happen until the sun, moon, and stars go dark. Every mention of the sun, moon, and stars going dark takes place after the great tribulation. I have explained this in previous comments and included all the Scriptural reference necessary. Here it is again.

Joe 2:31  The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

The cosmic sign of Joel 2:31 is seen by John at the opening of the sixth seal.

Rev 6:12  And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13  And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14  And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15  And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16  And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17  For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The 1/3 of the trees, 1/3 sea, 1/3 rivers, and 1/3 of the sun, etc doesn't happen until after seventh seal is opened (Rev 8) which takes place after Christ's coming and our rapture. Christ's arrival and our rapture happens between the sixth and seventh seal. None of those judgements take place in the first half of the week.

The statement that Jesus makes concerning the timing of the cosmic sign is still true whether or not you think Matt 24 is for the Jews or not. He says it comes after the tribulation of those days, and the days in context are those of the great tribulation from verse 21.

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Marilyn C, whoever taught you that Matt 24 and 25 were for the Jew, deceived you. The very same week Jesus told the same disciples, "if I go away I will come again and receive you unto myself that where I am there you may be also." Ever believer gladly takes this promise concerning Christ's second coming to receive his church unto himself. What folly to effectively cut out Jesus teaching on his coming. What the prophets taught, Jesus taught, and what Jesus taught the Apostles taught. They all taught the same thing.

Hallelujah

 

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3 minutes ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

 

The 1/3 of the trees, 1/3 sea, 1/3 rivers, and 1/3 of the sun, etc doesn't happen until after seventh seal is opened (Rev 8)which takes place after Christ's coming and our rapture. Christ's arrival and our rapture happens between the sixth and seventh seal. None of those judgements take place in the first half of the week.

Hi Steve,

So bro....when the Lord roars from heaven the whole earth and the heavens shall shake -

`The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter His voice from Jerusalem , and the heavens and the earth shall shake....` (Joel 3: 16)

And when does that happen? When the world`s armies are gathered outside Jerusalem in the valley of Jehoshaphat. (Joel 3: 2)

`Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision, for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision. The sun and the moon shall withdraw their shining.` (Joel 3: 14 & 15)

That is Armageddon. From the valley of Armageddon the world`s armies go through Israel killing 2/3rds of Israelis and then surround Jerusalem in the valley of Jehoshaphat. The prophet Joel was given quite a lot of details there.

Thus the trumpet judgments are well before any of that.

regards, Marilyn.

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17 minutes ago, Steve Conley said:

 

Marilyn C, whoever taught you that Matt 24 and 25 were for the Jew, deceived you. The very same week Jesus told the same disciples, "if I go away I will come again and receive you unto myself that where I am there you may be also." Ever believer gladly takes this promise concerning Christ's second coming to receive his church unto himself. What folly to effectively cut out Jesus teaching on his coming. What the prophets taught, Jesus taught, and what Jesus taught the Apostles taught. They all taught the same thing.

Hallelujah

 

Hi Steve,

All scripture is for us to read BUT it is NOT all about us. The Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul revealed the revelation of the Body of Christ. It was NOT revealed BEFORE then. (Eph. 3: 4 - 6)

Also the 12 disciples ONLY knew of the coming rulership of the Lord through Israel. That is what they always looked for and what the Lord taught them. They never knew of God`s purpose to make the Body of Christ. That is why they had such difficulty with Paul and what he was teaching.

You are mixing up God`s purposes for the two groups. They are all through Christ but have different inheritances.

regards, Marilyn.

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"Marilyn C, you are missing the fact that the wrath of God, expressed in the form of the trumpet and vial judgments take place in the beginning of the day of the Lord. The day of the Lord is the day of His wrath and more. The day of the Lord cannot happen until the sun, moon, and stars go dark. Every mention of the sun, moon, and stars going dark takes place after the great tribulation. I have explained this in previous comments and included all the Scriptural reference necessary"

 

This is where you are wrong ....the day of the Lord includes all of His wrath beginning in Revelation 6:12-17 and includes Revelation 8 thru 19

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7 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

"Marilyn C, you are missing the fact that the wrath of God, expressed in the form of the trumpet and vial judgments take place in the beginning of the day of the Lord. The day of the Lord is the day of His wrath and more. The day of the Lord cannot happen until the sun, moon, and stars go dark. Every mention of the sun, moon, and stars going dark takes place after the great tribulation. I have explained this in previous comments and included all the Scriptural reference necessary"

 

This is where you are wrong ....the day of the Lord includes all of His wrath beginning in Revelation 6:12-17 and includes Revelation 8 thru 19

Hi Daniel,

I think we are agreeing there bro, although I see Rev. 6: 12 - 17  at the end of the day of the Lord, (see Joel 3).

The day of the Lord is a time period and a day. So it starts with the trumpet judgments that go right to the end, and the vial judgments complete or fill up the wrath of God and also finish at the end. (Rev. 15: 1) That is the time period of the Day of the Lord.

Then the actual day, (24 hours) of the Lord is when the Lord causes the heavens and the earth to shake and He comes in power and great glory to deal with the world`s armies surrounding Jerusalem and deliver Israel.

The judgment scroll is like a legal document that reveals what the Father has given for His Son to judge. It is an overview of the time period of the Day of the Lord.

regards, Marilyn.

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12 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Steve,

So bro....when the Lord roars from heaven the whole earth and the heavens shall shake -

`The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter His voice from Jerusalem , and the heavens and the earth shall shake....` (Joel 3: 16)

And when does that happen? When the world`s armies are gathered outside Jerusalem in the valley of Jehoshaphat. (Joel 3: 2)

`Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision, for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision. The sun and the moon shall withdraw their shining.` (Joel 3: 14 & 15)

That is Armageddon. From the valley of Armageddon the world`s armies go through Israel killing 2/3rds of Israelis and then surround Jerusalem in the valley of Jehoshaphat. The prophet Joel was given quite a lot of details there.

Thus the trumpet judgments are well before any of that.

regards, Marilyn.

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Marilyn C, I'm sorry but I'm not certain what your trying to say, unless you are saying that Joel 3:14-16 is Matthew 24:29-30. I will answer as if that is the case.

The following assertions have the full support of the Holy Scriptures.

1) God's eschatological wrath is poured out in the day or the Lord. 

1Th 5:2  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3  For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

2) The day of the Lord cannot come until the cosmic sign that Joel mentions appears.

Joe 2:30  And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
Joe 2:31  The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

3) This cosmic sign was witnessed by John at the opening of the sixth seal.

Rev 6:12  And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13  And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14  And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15  And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16  And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17  For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

4) What John sees is consistent with that which Isaiah prophesied concerning the arrival of the day of the Lord.

Isa 2:10  Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty.
Isa 2:11  The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
Isa 2:12  For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:
...
Isa 2:19  And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

Isa 13:6  Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
Isa 13:7  Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
Isa 13:8  And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
Isa 13:9  Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isa 13:10  For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Isa 13:11  And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
Isa 13:12  I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
Isa 13:13  Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

5) Joel's prophecy, John's record, and Isaiah's prophecy as seen above are all consistent with what Jesus told His disciples would take place before His parousia (His arrival and continuing presence).

Luk 21:25  And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26  Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27  And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Mar 13:24  But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
Mar 13:25  And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
Mar 13:26  And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

6) The first appearance of this cosmic sign in the chronology of the seventieth week is immediately after the tribulation of those days.

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

7) The days in context are those of the period of unparalleled persecution that Jesus called "great tribulation".

Mat 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

8) We know that this great tribulation is unparalleled persecution of believers in Jesus Christ because the persecuted are the elect who are hated for Jesus name's sake.

Mat 24:9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Mat 24:22  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

9) The "therefore" of verse 15 lets us know that those hated and killed for Christ's name sake in verse 9 are the elect who experience great tribulation.

Mat 24:15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

10) Jesus said that this unparalleled persecution of the elect begins at the defiling of the temple which He called the abomination of desolation.

Mat 24:15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

11) Daniel tells us that the abomination of desolation takes place in the midst (middle) of the week.

Dan 9:27  And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

12) The seventh seal comes after the sixth seal. The seventh seal is followed by the seven trumpet judgments. The seventh trumpet judgement is the seven vials of the wrath of God. These are all followed by the final destruction of the Beast at the battle of Armageddon as described in Rev 19.

13) Therefore, if Joel 3:14-16 is Armageddon it cannot be the coming Jesus that is described in Matthew 24:30 because there are many detailed judgements which take place between the two events.

14) Mathew 24:29-31 describes the first day or the opening act of the day of the Lord, it does not describe the Revelation 19 Armageddon event which takes place many months if not year(s) later at the end of the seventieth week.

15) Jesus taught that His wrath would fall upon the apathetic unbelieving persecutors of the righteous on the day of our rapture. The day of our rescue is the day of His wrath.

Luk 17:26  And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27  They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28  Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29  But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30  Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

16) Paul taught that the persecuted church will have rest when Christ comes in glory with His mighty angels and begins to tribulate those who persecuted the church.

2Th 1:6  Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7  And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

All praise, honour, and glory be unto the Lamb

  • This is Worthy 1
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