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The historicity of the pre-trib rapture of the Church has always come directly from the Bible


Quasar93

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1 hour ago, Quasar93 said:

Your editorializing in my post is unacceptable.  The content of which is a meaningless opinionated distortion of the Scriptural facts that refute your attempt to rewrite the Scriptures to fit your belief system.  Let me see you field a Scripturally based argument of your view to prove your claims anything found in my post, fully supported by Scripture, is false, or it is your views that are.

 

Quasr92

 

Quasar93

Well, I'm not allowed to edit your post in the original form. But once I reply I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to write MY reply any way I choose. 

And I so chose....

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1 hour ago, Quasar93 said:

Your editorializing in my post is unacceptable.  The content of which is a meaningless opinionated distortion of the Scriptural facts that refute your attempt to rewrite the Scriptures to fit your belief system.  Let me see you field a Scripturally based argument of your view to prove your claims anything found in my post, fully supported by Scripture, is false, or it is your views that are.

Well, if the content of my last reply was meaningless and distorted, what makes you think another post is going to be less meaningless and distorted? If I'm just rewriting scripture to fit my distorted views then how would another post convince you of any conclusion?

Nothing, and it won't. 

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1 hour ago, Quasar93 said:

Bulls eye! :)  Amen to that!

 

Quasar93

That was very good teaching.

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2 hours ago, Diaste said:

Well, if the content of my last reply was meaningless and distorted, what makes you think another post is going to be less meaningless and distorted? If I'm just rewriting scripture to fit my distorted views then how would another post convince you of any conclusion?

Nothing, and it won't. 

Let me see what your Scriptural based argument is against the first two posts of the four. in the following link provided below.  Prove any of it is false, by the Scriptures, or you views are false.  Let me see your proof!

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/deeperwalk/the-biblical-teaching-of-the-pre-trib-rapture-of-t-t19401898.html

 

Qauasar93

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4 minutes ago, Quasar93 said:

Let me see what your Scriptural based argument is against the first two posts of the four. in the following link provided below.  Prove any of it is false, by the Scriptures, or you views are false.  Let me see your proof!

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/deeperwalk/the-biblical-teaching-of-the-pre-trib-rapture-of-t-t19401898.html

 

Qauasar93

With you as the arbiter of what should and should not constitute proof, I presume. I'll get right on that. 

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youtubeDOTcom/watch?v=Gj7Jqbhglzk (put the w's and http etc in front of link to make it work for you and replace the DOT with a period)

Just give this lady a few moments of your time and listen. It might become a little clearer. How all this got started and how it is so important for every believer to understand the truth.

THIS IS THE REAL HISTORY.

 

Edited by Justin Adams
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Justin

When was Jesus Christ the Messiah of Israel?  At the beginning of His Ministry or the End of His Ministry.  Not until the Triumphal Entry did some of Israel even recognize Him.  "Blessed is the king who comes in the name of the Lord" "Peace in heaven and glory in the highest".  His Disciples did not get it until they were filled with the Holy Spirit.  So Christ was not the Messiah of Israel until after His death.  Pilate put "king of the Jews" on the Cross above Jesus when He was crucified.

So Daniel 9:26 - "after the 62 Sevens, the Anointed One will be cut off (Killed) and will have nothing.  This is the end of the 69th Week.  Still One more week out there so Daniel's People and his holy city can receive their Messiah.  The 70 - Sevens is all about Daniel's People (Israel) and their timing to accept their Messiah.  Christs death is but a marker ending the 69th Week.  If all the 70 Sevens have been fulfilled, then Israel is living in Bliss.  Prove me wrong.

Zech 13:9b - They will call on my name, and I will answer them; I will say, They are my people, and they will say, The Lord is our God....  Thus fulfilling Dan 9:24.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

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1 hour ago, Montana Marv said:

Justin

When was Jesus Christ the Messiah of Israel?  At the beginning of His Ministry or the End of His Ministry.  Not until the Triumphal Entry did some of Israel even recognize Him.  "Blessed is the king who comes in the name of the Lord" "Peace in heaven and glory in the highest".  His Disciples did not get it until they were filled with the Holy Spirit.  So Christ was not the Messiah of Israel until after His death.  Pilate put "king of the Jews" on the Cross above Jesus when He was crucified.

So Daniel 9:26 - "after the 62 Sevens, the Anointed One will be cut off (Killed) and will have nothing.  This is the end of the 69th Week.  Still One more week out there so Daniel's People and his holy city can receive their Messiah.  The 70 - Sevens is all about Daniel's People (Israel) and their timing to accept their Messiah.  Christs death is but a marker ending the 69th Week.  If all the 70 Sevens have been fulfilled, then Israel is living in Bliss.  Prove me wrong.

Zech 13:9b - They will call on my name, and I will answer them; I will say, They are my people, and they will say, The Lord is our God....  Thus fulfilling Dan 9:24.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

The fact of the matter is, Israel has never accepted Jesus as their Messiah.  Those who did during Jesus first advent, together with every Jew since then, belong to the Church.  The nation of Israel, as such, has been decreed by God, to go through the tribulation, as recorded in Jer.30:7, Jacob's Trouble, and from Dan.9:27.  They will finally recognize Jesus as their Messiah, at His second coming, according to Zech.12:10 and 14:4-5.

 

Quasar93  

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16 hours ago, Quasar93 said:
 
Negative!  Review the Scriptural facts about the, "Seventy Weeks Are Determined Upon Thy People," below:

The following is a complete analysis Of the amazing prophecy found in the book of Daniel. We will begin in Dan.9:24 where the angel Gabriel is giving this prophecy to Daniel, the prophet.

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and the prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

1. Referrence here is to what God has decreed upon Daniel's people, Israel. [It has nothing at all to do with the church!]

2. See Gen.29:27 to explain that this biblical term of "one week" equals seven years. So the 70 weeks here, represents a total of 490 years, or 7 X 70.]

Vs.25. "Know, therefore, and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah, the Prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks; [49 + 420 + 14 = 483 years, covering 69 of the 70 weeks,] the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times." [See Neh.2:1-8.]

According to Sir Robert Armstrong, of the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England, the exact date of King Artaxerxes, of Persia, gave the decree for some of the Israeli exiles to return to Jerusalem on March 14, 446 BC.

[From 446 B.C. to Messiah the Prince, in Dan.9:25, equates into 69 Weeks, or 483 years, leaving the 70th and final Week of 7 years yet to be fulfilled].

From the 69 weeks [Of years] from above, or 483 years, multiplied by the 360 days of the Hebrew year, equals 173,880 days.

Vs.26. "And after threescore and two weeks..."[Which followed the first 7 weeks, or 49 years of vs 25, referring to the dedication of the completed building of the city and walls of Jerusalem, in the 32nd year of the Persian king, Artaxerxes, in the 7th month, [Neh.5:14 and 8:1] leaving 62 more weeks, or 434 more years [For a total of 69 weeks, or 483 years] to the triumphant entry of Jesus into Jerusalem]. Culminating in a total of 69 weeks, or 483 years from the Persian King, Artaxerxes Decree on March 14th, 446 BC. and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary, and the end of it shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

After Jesus was crucified, the Roman [prince] Titus comes with his legions and destroyed Jerusalem and the second temple in 70 AD, after bitter fighting, scattering Israel and the Jewish people into their diaspora.

To establish the time Jesus began His ministry, and approximate age, we find the evidence in Luke 3:1 and 3:23.

Lk.3:1. "Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilot being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip, tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Thrachonitis and Lysanias, the tetrarch of Abilene, Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John, the son of Zacharias, in the wilderness."

Which brings us to 29 AD and Jesus is about 30 years of age.

Lk.3:23. "And Jesus Himself began to be about 30 years of age, [When all Jewish priests begin their priesthood.]being [as was supposed] the son of Joseph, who was the son of Heli,"

Back to Daniel's prophecy of 70 weeks of years decreed upon his people, for a moment. We have determined as we fast close on all of the 69 weeks, 483 years, and 173,880 days in the Hebrew 360 day year as to exactly where it will take us.

Jn.12:12-13. "On the next day many people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, Took branches of palm trees and and went forth to meet Him, and cried Hosanna! Blessed is the King of Israel, that cometh in the name of the Lord." April 6th 32 AD. [According to the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England.]

Exactly 173,880 days from King Artaxerxes of Persia, decree of March 14,446 BC. [From Neh.2:1-8. Based on the 360 day Hebrew year. Which makes no difference whatever from a  365.2425 day year, when all the necessary corrections are made].

360 X 483 = 173,880 days.

1. 32 years [AD] X 365 days in our year = 11,680 days.
2. 445 years [BC] X 365 days in our year = 162,425 days.
3. Total 174,105 days divided by 365 = 477 years.
4. Plus 24 days between the date of the decree in 445 BC and Jesus cut-off in 32 AD = 477 years, 24 days
5. Subtract one year because there is no year zero between 1 BC and 1 AD. = 476 years, 24 days.
6. 476 years X 365 days = 173,740 days +24 = 173,764 Days
7. Add days of the leap years over 476 years. Divided by 4 = 119 days = 173,883 days
8. Subtract 1/128 Calendar year day for every solar year: Leap year omitted every 128 years.= -3 days = 173,880 days!

Which reveals the 360 day prophetic year of Israel is the very same as our present  365.2425  day year when all the corrections have been made to the latter.

The 70th week of Daniel's prophecy, of the final 7 years, is the Tribulation, or Jacob's Trouble [Jer.30:7.] which will conclude the 490 year prophecy decreed upon his people, with a 2,000 year parenthetic in between, that covers the entire church age!
 
That there is a gap of time between verses 26 and 27 is amplified and confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15, in His reference to the abomination of desolation in Dan.9:27, and of His second coming in verse 30, in His response to the disciples questions as to the signs of His return and of the end of the age.

Dan.9:27. "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."



Quasar93

I have to agree. Even without the math there are prophecies that must be fulfilled in every detail that were not fulfilled in 70 AD. Like the whole of Revelation. The last week is coming. Soon.

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The way I heard it was that the RC's needed a bit of a break in the 1500's so they commissioned an RC scholar to write up something that would get them some good PR. It was too weird for them so it was shelved. In the 17-1800's this treatise was discovered and put into circulation since they needed something to make 'the people feel better'. 

About his time, low and behold, Darby and a few others came out with the same sort of pre-trib idea and because people never really read history and learn, they took Daniel's prophesy and created a gigantic house of cards that is seen today as the tribulation, complete with 'proof' texts from many thousands of years ago. The RC scholar, long since dead, unleashed a horrible deception on all believers.

So now, the believer is waiting for something that WILL NOT HAPPEN, and furthermore they might miss very important things that are happening right now.

Prophesy is NEVER verified until AFTER THE EVENT. So do not hold your breath.

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