50 Reasons for the Pre-tribulation Rapture

[Daniel 11:36]

"Take up you cross and follow the Lord Yeshua. He will return for His saints in the end, so be prepared to stick it out until then!"

 

Zechariah 14:5

[Quasar93]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

 

 

As is your usual M/O, you editorialize your views in my posts which I have asked you not to do.  Apparently because you are unable to field an argument for your views on the subject of the pre-trib rapture of your own.

Your attempt to change what the Scriptures tell us about the pre-trib rapture , as the late Dr. John Walvoord, former President of Dallas Theological Seminary wrote, that you know so much more about than he did. review the following Biblical teaching of the Pre-trib Rapture of the Church, in the following, that he was writing about, that refute you:

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church:

Mt.24:31:
[/B] And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His ELECT from the four winds [Israel - on earth], from one end of the heavens to the other [The Church Jesus will rapture before the seven year tribulation begins]. How did those ELECT get into heaven? Read on to find out.

Lk.21:36:
"Watch ye, therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."

Jn.14:2-4 and 28:
"In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you [See Jn.20:17]. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going." [Jn.14:2-4].

"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." [Jn.14:28].

The Scriptures tell us where we all go, who belong to Christ, after the death of our bodies:
"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." As recorded in 2 Cor.5:8, confirming Ecc.12:7. Which is, in and of itself, conclusive to the fact that Jesus is not going to let the rest of His Church remain on earth to go through the seven year tribulation, when He returns for those of us who are still alive, waiting for His appearing, in 1 Thes.4:17. Since He raises all those who have died, to be with Him, immediately after their physical death, for more than 2,000 years.

1 Thes.4:13-18:
The Thessalonians were very concerned about those among them who had died, that they would not be gathered together with the rest of them when Jesus returned. Paul assures them in vs 13-14 that they will all be returning with Christ from heaven, where they have been since He raised them up to be with Him, the day they died physically, according to 2 Cor.5:6-8.

"We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him [Died physically]. Vs 14.

"According to the Lord's own word [Scriptural truth as to the fact that Jesus taught there was to be a pre-trib rapture of the Church, as recorded in Jn.14:2-4 and 28], we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left to the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep." Vs 15. An assurance by Paul to the Thessalonians that the dead in Christ had already been raised from the dead before, and were already with Christ when He returns for all those left on earth alive at His coming.

Because they have already been raised, each in his/her own turn, according to 1 Cor.15:23. That is the very reason it is not documented as a resurrection in the Scriptures.

"For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven [With all His saints [Church], according to vs 14], with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first" [Paul again assures them, as seen in verses 13-14, they were already previously raised once before, each in his/her own turn, as they died, for more than 2,000 years]. Vs 16.

"After that, we who are still alive and are left will be CAUGHT UP [raptured] together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the sky. And so we will be with the Lord forever." Vs 17. Where we proceed with Jesus to our Father in heaven as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28.

"Therefore encourage each other with these words." Vs 18.

2 Thess.2:1-8: The precise timing of the rapture of the Church:
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation of Dan.9:27] has already come." 2 Thes.2:1-2. Which is a direct reference to 1 Thes.4:17 and the theme of Paul's entire pre-trib rapture message in 2 Thes.2:1-8. When we will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. [Parenthetics mine].

The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to in vs 2, alludes to Dan.9:27, when God will intervene into the affairs of man for the last time, culminating in the second coming of Jesus to the earth. In that passage of Scripture, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the "he" who "confirms a covenant [An agreement] for one Week" [The Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist. The second, and same "he," who stops Israel from the offerings and sacrificing in the temple of God, and the third, and same "he," who breaks his covenant in the middle of the Week [After 3.5 of the 7 year total], and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15, in His Olivet Discourse, about the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the age.

In vs 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below.

Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD.
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth].

Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No reason was ever given.

"He [The antichrist] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." Vs 4. [The abomination of desolation, confirming Dan.9:27 and Mt.24:15]. See also 2 Thes.2:4.

The rapture of the Church and verse 3 confirmed:
In vs 7: "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he [The saints - Church] is taken out of the way."

The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the one body of Christ, who bear the Holy Spirit within each of us [Eph.1:13-14], the Church of Jesus Christ. The very same as those who will participate in the "apostasia," the "departure," [the rapture] of the Church, in vs 3. Immediately following that:

In vs 8: "And then the lawless one [The antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming." Vs 8. [See Rev.19:17-21].

The antichrist is found in all three of the "he's" in Dan. 9:27, confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15; Mk.13:14 and by Paul, in 2 Thes.2:3, 4 and 8.

From the above Scriptural facts, there can be only one proper interpretation for the timing of the rapture of the Church, which will be immediately preceding the 70th and final/7 year tribulation, triggered by the antichrist, all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27. Seen also as the first of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, riding the white horse, in the first of the seven seals, in Rev.6:2. There is no "pre-wrath" or post-trib rapture taught in the Scriptures.


Other verses pertaining to the rapture of the Church: 1 Thes.1:10; 1 Thes.5:9; Rev.3:10 and Rev.4:1-2. Of the saints [Church] returning with Christ from their marriage in heaven, in Rev.19:7, 8 and 14; Jude 14 and Zech.14:4-5!


The difference between the Second Coming of Christ and the pre-trib rapture of the Church:

http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice...eenTheRapt.pdf


Quasar93

 

My apology for clicking on the wrong button again!

Edited December 17, 2017 by Quasar93

[Montana Marv]

12 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Why keep posting about the false pre-trib stuff? You know it aint real. You will not convince anyone except new Christians and the weaker members might falter. If it is real, you do not need to talk about it since you and your fellows will be all gone, just leaving the unfaithful behind

Justin

So what Trib are you.  Post-Trib (read Rev 9:18-21), this eliminates this view. The Rest of mankind continues to worship demons and idols.  Pre-Wrath, Pre-Trib is a form of Pre-Wrath, just sooner. Mid-Trib, can be calculated to the day (false, because know one the day or hour).  Pre-Wrath, sometime between Mid-Trib and Post-Trib, so this date can be calculated also.

I have most likely been a Believer longer than you have been alive.  I am Pre-Trib.  We may consider you as a weaker member.  We know Pre-Trib is true.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

[Daniel 11:36]

Why keep posting about the false pre-trib stuff? You know it aint real.

 

When the Lord calls for His own then there will be no believers upon the earth at the beginning of the 70th week decreed for Israel

The first will be the 144000 mortal believers of the tribulation period

These will preach the gospel of the kingdom and some others of Israel and the Gentiles will be saved in the tribulation period

Your theology is wrong 

Edited December 17, 2017 by Daniel 11:36

[Justin Adams]

And they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. For it is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as first-fruits for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless.

They are glorified beings. They came from heaven. Not mere mortals.

The 69 weeks already happened. There is no '7year' tribulation as the pre-tribbers say.

You cannot remove seven years from the 2300 years and still have 2300 nor can you remove seven years from the 490 historical years and still have 490. To take seven years of history and transplant it into the future is untenable. No explanation is adequate and none has been given. Darby just did it. There is no prophecy that says the "Great Tribulation" is seven years. Seven years was stolen from Daniel disannulling history.

After 69 "weeks," Messiah would come, but he would be "cut off" in death in the middle of the last "week." (Again, a "day" equals a year.)

So after Jesus' ministry of three and one half years—in the "midst of the [last] week"—he would make the Temple sacrifices obsolete...and therefore abominable to God. Still, favor continued another three and one half years to the Jewish people until the first Gentile convert, Cornelius. These seven years of the last "week" were thus fulfilled.

Nowhere does the Book of Revelation talk about seven years of anything. However, it does talk about 1260 days—which would only equal three and one half literal years (3.5 x 360 = 1260).

But then are we seeing two periods of three and one half years? No.

In time prophecy, a "day" equals a year.   (Ezekiel 4:6)

Daniel talks about a "little horn" coming out of the Fourth Universal Empire "beast" which was Rome (Daniel 7:8, 20-26). This little horn persecuted the saints for 1260 symbolic days from 539 A.D. until CE 1799, when Napoleon broke the persecuting power of papacy.

In Revelation this little horn is described also as a beast in its own right with "a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies" for the same period of time (42 "months" x 30 = 1260 symbolic days) (Revelation 13:1-7). The 1260 years are already fulfilled! There is only one period of three and one half years.

[Montana Marv]

4 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

So after Jesus' ministry of three and one half years—in the "midst of the [last] week"—he would make the Temple sacrifices obsolete...and therefore abominable to God. Still, favor continued another three and one half years to the Jewish people until the first Gentile convert, Cornelius. These seven years of the last "week" were thus fulfilled.

Justin

So why has the 70 Weeks prophecy not been fulfilled then.  1. Because Daniel's people and his holy city have not accepted their Messiah as prophesied in Dan 9:24.  2.  Israel is still in Sin. 3. Israel has not atoned for wickedness. 4. Israel has not finished transgressing. 5. Israel has not brought in everlasting righteousness. 6. Israel has not seal up vision and prophecy. 7. Israel has yet to anoint the Most Holy.

When these are accomplished, the 70th Week will be fulfilled as the Prophecy indicates.  (100 percent accurate)

In Christ

Montana Marv
 

[Montana Marv]

17 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

And they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. For it is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as first-fruits for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless.

They are glorified beings. They came from heaven. Not mere mortals

Do you really believe what you posted.  You just refuted yourself.  "These have been redeemed from mankind"  yet you then say, "They are glorified beings.  They came from heaven.  Not mere mortals".  Scripture says they are 12,000 from each Tribe,  They are from Israel.  They are mortal.

Your credibility is crumbling.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Justin Adams]

"144,000 sealed in Apocalypse [Revelation] 7:4ff; 14:1 ff: This is 12, the number of the tribes of Israel, multiplied by itself and then multiplied by 1000, the number of a military unit in the ancient Israelite army. The number indicates the fullness of Israel; the Church in the New Testament is conceived as the fullness of Israel, and this is the heavenly Church in its final completion." – Dictionary of the Bible, John L. McKenzie, S.J., p. 621

You do not know for sure any of what you say. Yahweh knows though. I do not need 'creditability'.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Justin Adams

[Montana Marv]

10 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

"144,000 sealed in Apocalypse [Revelation] 7:4ff; 14:1 ff: This is 12, the number of the tribes of Israel, multiplied by itself and then multiplied by 1000, the number of a military unit in the ancient Israelite army. The number indicates the fullness of Israel; the Church in the New Testament is conceived as the fullness of Israel, and this is the heavenly Church in its final completion." – Dictionary of the Bible, John L. McKenzie, S.J., p. 621

You do not know for sure any of what you say. Yahweh knows though. I do not need 'creditability'.

I think you missed the boat.  I think you are 144,002.  144,000 divided by 2000 years is 720 converts per year on the average. BTW - John McKenzie was Roman Catholic.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[missmuffet]

3 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

 

No, the copy I have is quite old.

 

Quasar03

This is the new version.