Dennis1209 Posted December 19, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 17 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,448 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,363 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 19, 2017 I know, I know... But this isn't so much about once saved always saved (OSAS) as you may be thinking. This passage is talking about Israel in general, and the Jewish peoples in particular, at the mid point of the tribulation during the 'abomination of desolation'. Luke 17: 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. I've been reading several commentaries on this verse, and the expositor's and scholar's seem to agree. That during this time when the Jew's flee the Antichrist, if any shall try to preserve their mortal human life, by denying Christ or their religion to preserve their mortal life, is to lose their eternal Salvation in the day of trail. Does anyone disagree with my understanding of what this verse implies? If my interpretation is biblical, that means there is at least one instance where Salvation is conditional. Does anyone have another interpretation that disagrees with how I'm understanding this verse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMatrixHasU71 Posted December 19, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,573 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 723 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said: I know, I know... But this isn't so much about once saved always saved (OSAS) as you may be thinking. This passage is talking about Israel in general, and the Jewish peoples in particular, at the mid point of the tribulation during the 'abomination of desolation'. Luke 17: 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. I've been reading several commentaries on this verse, and the expositor's and scholar's seem to agree. That during this time when the Jew's flee the Antichrist, if any shall try to preserve their mortal human life, by denying Christ or their religion to preserve their mortal life, is to lose their eternal Salvation in the day of trail. Does anyone disagree with my understanding of what this verse implies? If my interpretation is biblical, that means there is at least one instance where Salvation is conditional. Does anyone have another interpretation that disagrees with how I'm understanding this verse? What that passage is speaking of is losing your carnal life, a life where you live for earthly pleasures, its not related to losing your mortal physical life. Salvation otherwise is not conditional. That would imply again a sort of works based salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted December 19, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 17 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,448 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,363 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 19, 2017 12 minutes ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said: What that passage is speaking of is losing your carnal life, a life where you live for earthly pleasures, its not related to losing your mortal physical life. Salvation otherwise is not conditional. That would imply again a sort of works based salvation. Taken in context with Luke 17: 31, that sounds reasonable. But 17: 33 I can't render the word "pleasures" for life. LIFE (psuche) Breath, spirit, life, mind, soul. I think it's plainly talking about the physical life, followed by spiritual destination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMatrixHasU71 Posted December 19, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,573 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 723 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Dennis1209 said: Taken in context with Luke 17: 31, that sounds reasonable. But 17: 33 I can't render the word "pleasures" for life. LIFE (psuche) Breath, spirit, life, mind, soul. I think it's plainly talking about the physical life, followed by spiritual destination. As you can see here though the word LIFE can mean several things. All commentators I have ever read say that "life" here involves carnality. Look at the next verse What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 One cannot be saved simply by being a Jew or a Hebrew. There is only one way into heaven, and that is through faith in the finished Work of Jesus Christ. Even in the Tribulation period, that will be the only way. Still, because of the Mark of the Beast, if one should take it, be they Jew or Gentile, they will be lost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted December 19, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,990 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,688 Content Per Day: 11.83 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted December 19, 2017 17 minutes ago, Rick_Parker said: One cannot be saved simply by being a Jew or a Hebrew. There is only one way into heaven, and that is through faith in the finished Work of Jesus Christ. Even in the Tribulation period, that will be the only way. Still, because of the Mark of the Beast, if one should take it, be they Jew or Gentile, they will be lost. I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4LdKHVCzRDj2 Posted December 19, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,453 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 1,453 Days Won: 6 Joined: 11/02/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1991 Share Posted December 19, 2017 2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said: If my interpretation is biblical, that means there is at least one instance where Salvation is conditional. Does anyone have another interpretation that disagrees with how I'm understanding this verse? People like to complicate things, but it is so simple. "that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God." - 1 Corinthians 2:5 "who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." - 2 Corinthians 3:6 Salvation is conditional: if you have faith you will be saved; If you do not have faith, you will be lost. And I mean faith in Christ. "But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe." - Jude 1:5 Otherwise, the whole world would be saved. And we know this is not going to happen. "The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth." - Matthew 13:41-42 But then I can come back to the world and darkness as I'm already saved?! Please, get rid of this carnal mentality. If you think like this, chances are you are not saved. "Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”" - John 8:12 "Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’" - John 3:7 And from where faith comes? From you? Not at all, it is a gift from God. "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1 Posted December 20, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 686 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 221 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/16/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 20, 2017 8 hours ago, Dennis1209 said: Does anyone disagree with my understanding of what this verse implies? My understanding of this verse has always been, that if we try to keep our life without serving God in love, we lose it. Matthew chapter 13 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.” The way your trying to use this verse, it seems to me it would be impossible to know the meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarvestLabourer Posted December 20, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 328 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 114 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/08/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/27/1957 Share Posted December 20, 2017 17 hours ago, Dennis1209 said: Luke 17: 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 17 hours ago, Dennis1209 said: If my interpretation is biblical, that means there is at least one instance where Salvation is conditional. Does anyone have another interpretation that disagrees with how I'm understanding this verse? Hi Dennis, I see it as the change over from living for our self to living for Jesus' sake. Some verses which I think are related to that saying.He that loves his life shall lose it; and he that hates his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. John 12:25 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me. Galatians 2:20 And they overcame him [the devil] by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Revelation 12:11 Praise Jesus Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heleadethme Posted December 20, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,371 Content Per Day: 1.36 Reputation: 3,267 Days Won: 5 Joined: 07/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 20, 2017 (edited) 20 hours ago, Dennis1209 said: I know, I know... But this isn't so much about once saved always saved (OSAS) as you may be thinking. This passage is talking about Israel in general, and the Jewish peoples in particular, at the mid point of the tribulation during the 'abomination of desolation'. Luke 17: 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. I've been reading several commentaries on this verse, and the expositor's and scholar's seem to agree. That during this time when the Jew's flee the Antichrist, if any shall try to preserve their mortal human life, by denying Christ or their religion to preserve their mortal life, is to lose their eternal Salvation in the day of trail. Does anyone disagree with my understanding of what this verse implies? If my interpretation is biblical, that means there is at least one instance where Salvation is conditional. Does anyone have another interpretation that disagrees with how I'm understanding this verse? Amen brother........and that passage is also talking about how we follow Jesus as His disciples.......His narrow way means we follow Him through the putting to death of our flesh nature.......we learn to lay down things of earth more and more, the things which tend to prop up our soul life.....pride, ego, self effort, sense of earthly purpose, security, etc.......and learn to be more and more dependent on the Lord for everything. It's not only talking about times of persecution as such....but is a daily following of the Lord in obedience, denying self unto the death of self ultimately.....and where self dies He then gives of His resurrection life, His Spirit, and makes us new. After the Red Sea, then there is a wilderness of following and crucifying our carnal nature (losing our psuche/soul life), and finally there is a Jordan we need to get across. That is how I understand it at least, just in my own words. Kind of rending the veil of our flesh nature to reveal the spirit and nature of Christ within us......who falls on Him will be broken......many scriptures allude to this. Just want to add that Israel is our ensample.......her journey is a living parable of our spiritual journey as believers (Jew and GEntile) under the new covenant, which is a spiritual covenant, unlike the old covenant which was physical.......shadow and ensample of the spiritual reality which was to come. Edited December 20, 2017 by Heleadethme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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