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n2thelight

Why were the Elect not raptured

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12 hours ago, iamlamad said:

At the time of the pretrib rapture, all whom Jesus knows are born again and ready will be raptured. But many who confess they are Christian will be left behind. They will know they were left behind, and will very quickly get right with God, but will have to face the days of GT that will come.

Then, there are those descendants of Jacob that will turn to and believe in Jesus when they see the nail holes in His hands. They too are God's "elect." But at the pretrib rapture they are not "in Christ" so are left behind.

Now, did you ask this to learn, or to begin an argument?

So you saying they will believe when they see Him?

That can't be true,they may believe as all will,but that dosn't mean they will be saved,as the age of grace will be over.

As far as why I ask,just planting seeds,I don't argue,believe what you will,as only God can and will judge you...

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9 hours ago, n2thelight said:

So you saying they will believe when they see Him?

That can't be true,they may believe as all will,but that dosn't mean they will be saved,as the age of grace will be over.

As far as why I ask,just planting seeds,I don't argue,believe what you will,as only God can and will judge you...

I'm not saying that: GOD said it, and I choose to believe Him.

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9 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Not true .... all of the seals are a prelude to the actual events of the tribulation period that is coming 

Do you mean by prelude that they come in our future just before the 70th week?

To believe this, you MUST pull the first seals out of their scriptural context: the vision of the throne room. John shows us the timing by seeing Jesus ascend into heaven as a lamb having been slain. That sets the context timing to 32 or 33 AD. Neither you nor anyone else can find 2000 years hidden in the following verses. It is written to show us that as soon as Jesus ascended, He took the book and began breaking the seals.

Therefore, IN CONTEXT seals 1 - 5 are to represent events of the early church.

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On 12/20/2017 at 4:43 AM, Psalms37:4 said:

 

Revelation 6:15-17 is the reaction from people all over the world who were left behind knowing what had just happened was the rapture and knowing they will now have to face the wrath of God. People will know the only way millions of Christians suddenly vanished could only have been the rapture of the church. Many will become believers on the day of the rapture and begin turning to God.

 

Not possible. The above pretrib tenet is refuted by the same truth petrib relies on to prove the pretribulation doctrine; 

1 Thessalonians 5:9 (KJV)

9 "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ..."

If this is the case then no 'us' can be in the tribulation, whether converted early or late. 

You said, "what had just happened was the rapture and knowing they will now have to face the wrath of God." Obviously meaning the 'us' from 1 Thess 5:9 are gone and the wrath of God begins. 

Now you said, "Many will become believers on the day of the rapture and begin turning to God." According to you the wrath of God begins after the 'rapture', and many become believers after this 'rapture'. That means 'us' are then appointed to wrath, which cannot be true according to 1 Thess 5:9.

Are the believers taken in the 'rapture' a special group that fits, "God hath not appointed us to wrath" and the believers after the 'rapture' are not special enough to enjoy, "not appointed us to wrath"?

Is the 'us' in 1 Thess 5:9 a select 'us' not including some based on the situation or historical timing?

Is the idea that the church is 'raptured' according to 1 Thess 5:9 and those, "Many will become believers on the day of the rapture and begin turning to God." are not part of the church and hence do not have the benefit of avoiding wrath?

Is Paul not speaking to everyone in the church in 1 Thess 5:9?

The explanation to this problem is that tribulation is not wrath. Those alive when the beast is empowered and then revealed 3.5 years later will experience tribulation and then be taken out of the earth after tribulation immediately before wrath falls. Just like Noah.

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"Not possible. The above pretrib tenet is refuted by the same truth petrib relies on to prove the pretribulation doctrine"

 

Revelation 3:10

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15 hours ago, Diaste said:

Not possible. The above pretrib tenet is refuted by the same truth petrib relies on to prove the pretribulation doctrine; 

1 Thessalonians 5:9 (KJV)

9 "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ..."

If this is the case then no 'us' can be in the tribulation, whether converted early or late. 

Of course it's possible. The "us" in 1 Thes 5:9 is the elect of the church. There's no us in the tribulation simply because there will be Pre-Trib rapture.

If you also don't believe the "us" will be in the tribulation because of 1 Thes 5:9, why do you promote the idea of the church having to go through the tribulation? Such irony! Oxymoron eschatology?

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On 12/20/2017 at 5:43 AM, Psalms37:4 said:

Revelation 14:1-5 New King James Version (NKJV)

14 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.

 

If the 144,000 are raptured, how can Daniel's 70th week be fulfilled?

 

Yeah that's what it said. They get sealed before the tribulation commences at the 6th Seal. 

The church also suddenly appeared and is present before the throne room of God before the tribulation commences in the 6th Seal. Revelation 7:9-17.

The rapture happened at the beginning of the 6th Seal in Revelation 6:12-14. Watch the first video for an explanation on Revelation 6:12-14.

 

 

Revelation 6:15-17 is the reaction from people all over the world who were left behind knowing what had just happened was the rapture and knowing they will now have to face the wrath of God. People will know the only way millions of Christians suddenly vanished could only have been the rapture of the church. Many will become believers on the day of the rapture and begin turning to God.

Jesus said nobody knew when the tribulation came till they all saw the flood during the days of Noah. When the rapture hits, the whole world will also know the tribulation has started.

 

Revelation 6:15-17 New King James Version (NKJV)

15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

 

Matthew 24:36-39 New King James Version (NKJV)

36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

 

The rapture is a pretty effective way to sound the alarm to the whole world to know the tribulation has just started.

In summary at the 6th Seal.

Revelation 6:12-14 = The rapture of the church.

Revelation 6:15-17 = The world's reaction after being left behind knowing the wrath of God has begun.

Revelation 7:1-8 = The sealing of the 144,000.

Revelation 7: 9-17 = The church appears in heaven standing before God.

What you are talking about in Rev. 6 is not the rapture. The 144k are especially chosen by God before the trib, and will have special Gifts of the Holy Spirit. They will stand against all that is against God. Many will die being a witness to the truth. And the Two Golden Lampstands will stand forth.

The Two Anointed Ones of God.

The rapture will not happen as many believe. And the great deception will lead many Christians to the One World Church.

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