Shilohsfoal Posted December 20, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.48 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 20, 2017 http://biblehub.com/john/17-15.htm There are those who believe they must be raptured away from the world in order to be kept from the temptation of the world. These people claim to belong to Christ so why do they not think as Christ? God plagued Egypt as Israel had not left.Yet Israel was not hurt by those plagues.Same as it is during the tribulation.The saints will be persecuted just as the Israelis we're in Egypt .The wicked will be plagued in the presence of the saints just as the Egyptians were in the presence of Israel. Two will be in a field.One of these will be taken (destroyed),the other will be left(saved).Same as it was in the days of Noah when the flood came and took all the wicked away and left Noah .Noah witnessed it all and so will the saints who endure till the end. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted December 20, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.48 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 20, 2017 And yes,God is able to do this. http://biblehub.com/john/17-15.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted December 20, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 20, 2017 (edited) "There are those who believe they must be raptured away from the world in order to be kept from the temptation of the world" Not to keep the believer from the temptations of the world .... the believer is free from the temptations of the world, but to immortalize them "Two will be in a field.One of these will be taken (destroyed),the other will be left(saved)" This scripture is specifically about Israel in the coming tribulation, one taken to judgment, the other left to enter and populate the Lord's coming millennial kingdom upon the earth as a mortal Edited December 20, 2017 by Daniel 11:36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 People who want to be Raptured are just ready to go. We know that time is short and we are anxious to be with the Lord. As for me, this world is a terrible place to live, hard to tolerate. I hate it. I am ready to go. I want everyone to be saved, but the Bible tells us that is not going to happen. It also tells us that the Rapture is a numbers driven event, so the more people who receive Christ gets us closer to that number. I pray that the next person to get saved will meet that number. There is nothing wrong with that nor does it mean that I want to "avoid" what is coming. I did, that was the reason I got saved all those years ago. Now, I have a relationship with Christ and I want to take it to the next level. And the only way that will happen is if I die or am Raptured. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted December 21, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,990 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,688 Content Per Day: 11.83 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2017 Because the born again Christian has kept God's word he has promised to keep us out of the tribulation which will be His judgement and wrath on this earth. For those who end up in the seven year tribulation that is their choice for not having faith in Jesus Christ. Although they will have a second chance in the tribulation to turn to God. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted December 21, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,625 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Cobalt1959 said: Your very first sentence is self-defeating. People who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture experience the temptation of the world every single day right now. So they obviously do not believe in a pre-trip rapture as some sort of "escape" from temptation although others continually mis-characterize those believers exactly the way you did above. Persecution at the hands of unbelievers and/or Satan is not the same as suffering from God's direct wrath. And people who continually preach this "believers gotta suffer through the Tribulation" pablum don't seem to be able to understand the difference. Noah was protected from the Flood. Lot was protected from the destruction of Sodom. Israel was protected from the plagues. These people were subject to the persecution from the world. They were protected from the wrath of God. The two are not the same thing. Every judgment on the Earth after the 6th seal is opened is God's wrath, not worldly persecution. So if you are going to claim that existing believers have to go through the Tribulation once it starts, you also have to believe that they will be supernaturally protected from God's wrath. Otherwise, you are biblically inconsistent. If any believer in your scenario is killed by any of the seals after the 6th one, or any of the trumpets or bowls, that would be a violation of what the Bible clearly says. Pre-trib believers do not ascribe to some "escape hatch" premise. They understand that the Church has no place in the Tribulation because God's focus returns to the redeeming of Israel. And honestly, it is pretty self-serving to believe that the Church is so important that it has to figure into God's plan somehow, all the way to the end. Once the tribulation starts, the church's purpose has been fulfilled. The above arguments would be valid if tribulation was the wrath of God. It's not. Tribulation is cut short by the return of Jesus who then metes out the wrath of God. Tribulation only begins at the midpoint of the week, it's not the entire last week. I agree the OP is not exactly precise but I'm pretty sure we can all understand the context is the end of the age. Noah was protected from Gods wrath, but not 100 years of ridicule while building the ark. You did say persecution and wrath are different, yes? On the day Noah entered the ark, wrath fell on the earth. On the day Lot was removed from Sodom, wrath fell, while Lot suffered persecution and general degenerate goings on before that. Israel in Egypt is a very good example. The plagues did not harm them, even though the Egyptian suffered greatly. Now the plagues were never likened to wrath but it is a great example of God protecting His people during a divine judgement; just like what will happen during a 3 year great tribulation in the future. Now, since Noah and Lot were taken on the same day wrath fell, and Jesus said the coming wrath would be just like in the day of Noah, then we will be taken out on the day wrath falls.I know you agree. But, the wrath of God and the Lamb does not occur until the 6th seal, well into the last week, as you pointed out above. We will be taken on that day, just as in the days of Noah, and Lot. Just before wrath and well into the last week. It's not a matter of believers wanting to suffer, or needing to, or some escape from temptations of the world, it's just truth. The moment of temptation that comes to try the world, referenced imprecisely in the OP, is the choice we will face, should we live that long, between the Lord Jesus and the beast; not the many worldly temptations we live with daily. Even Jesus dealt with those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted December 21, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.48 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 47 minutes ago, Diaste said: The above arguments would be valid if tribulation was the wrath of God. It's not. Tribulation is cut short by the return of Jesus who then metes out the wrath of God. Tribulation only begins at the midpoint of the week, it's not the entire last week. I agree the OP is not exactly precise but I'm pretty sure we can all understand the context is the end of the age. Noah was protected from Gods wrath, but not 100 years of ridicule while building the ark. You did say persecution and wrath are different, yes? On the day Noah entered the ark, wrath fell on the earth. On the day Lot was removed from Sodom, wrath fell, while Lot suffered persecution and general degenerate goings on before that. Israel in Egypt is a very good example. The plagues did not harm them, even though the Egyptian suffered greatly. Now the plagues were never likened to wrath but it is a great example of God protecting His people during a divine judgement; just like what will happen during a 3 year great tribulation in the future. Now, since Noah and Lot were taken on the same day wrath fell, and Jesus said the coming wrath would be just like in the day of Noah, then we will be taken out on the day wrath falls.I know you agree. But, the wrath of God and the Lamb does not occur until the 6th seal, well into the last week, as you pointed out above. We will be taken on that day, just as in the days of Noah, and Lot. Just before wrath and well into the last week. It's not a matter of believers wanting to suffer, or needing to, or some escape from temptations of the world, it's just truth. The moment of temptation that comes to try the world, referenced imprecisely in the OP, is the choice we will face, should we live that long, between the Lord Jesus and the beast; not the many worldly temptations we live with daily. Even Jesus dealt with those. You don't have to be taken out of the world to be protected if you indestructable. Although I do believe the two witnesses may just be ascending into the heavens on,a mushroom shaped cloud if you know what I mean. The king of babylon makes the fire hot,but it's possible you can walk through the fire without getting burned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted December 21, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.48 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 1 hour ago, missmuffet said: Because the born again Christian has kept God's word he has promised to keep us out of the tribulation which will be His judgement and wrath on this earth. For those who end up in the seven year tribulation that is their choice for not having faith in Jesus Christ. Although they will have a second chance in the tribulation to turn to God. http://biblehub.com/revelation/3-10.htm No.He didn't promise to keep me from tribulation.He said if I keep the word of his patience,he will keep me from,the hour of trial.Your not going to deceive me by changing his word. Jesus prayed that I would not be taken,out of the world but that I would be kept from the evil which is temptation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted December 21, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.48 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 This far I've learned who the beast is,What the draggon is.Who the son of perdition is. All of these are in the world now and so are the pretribbers. When Armageddon starts,the pre tribbers will still be here wondering where the promise of Jesus coming is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted December 21, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2017 Just another slant above .... the pre-tribulation immortals will be free and watching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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