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Quasar93

Who and What are the Elect ?

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In Mt.24:31 we read the following Scripture: "And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."  NIV.

First of all, for those who want to review a study of Conditional Election as compared to Unconditional election, a good source for both can be found in the following: 

For Conditional election: http://www.gotquestions.org/conditional-election.html

For Unconditional election: http://www.gotquestions.org/unconditional-election.html

IMO, in order for us to become one of God's elect, we must first come to a believing faith in Jesus Christ, who is the reconciling factor of God justifying us as one of His elect, according to Rom.5:9-11.  Who all then become members of the one body of Christ, both Jew and Gentile, His Church, according to 1 Cor.12:12-13.  Since God knows the end from the beginning of all things, He knew this before the foundation of the world, according to Isa.46:10.  "...not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." according to 2 Pet.3:9.

A review of Job 2:1-6 is what appears to be an exact duplication of what has and still is going on between God and Satan for the very souls of mankind.  With the bottom line being, Job is the one who made his decision for God, who then richly rewarded him for it in the end. 

So what about Israel, who rejected Jesus as their Messiah during His first advent?  In Isa.45:4 the following is written: "For Jacob, my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by name; I have surnamed thee, though though hast not known me."  KJV.  However, Israel does not come to know Him, i.e. Jesus, as their Messiah until the 70th and final Week of Dan.9:27/the seven year tribulation is nearly over, as recorded in Zech.12:10, as related to Jesus second advent, seen in Zech.14:4-5.  When "All [A remnant of only one third of them according to Zech.13:8] of Israel will be saved." fulfilling Rom.11:26.

Something seen in Zech.14:5, raises the next issue with the following statement: "...Then the Lord my God will come with all His holy ones with Him."  What that means can be better illuminated in Rev.19:14, where the following is recorded: "The armies of heaven were following Him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean," who are the saints, the one body of Christ, His Church.  So how did the Church get into heaven?  It pertains to the time when the one body of Christ, His Church will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the sky, according to 1 Thes.4:16-17, known and called, the rapture of the Church.  Which will take place before the 70th Week/seven year tribulation begins, according to 2 Thes.2:1-8.  As Jesus taught in Jn.14:2-4 and 28 and noted by Paul in 1 Thes.4:15, where he wrote: "According to the Lord's own word..."  Meaning the Church is seen returning with Jesus and His angels when He returns to the earth in His second advent, When Mt.24:31 and Rev.19:14 are combined.

Back to Mt.24:31 for a closer look at the interpretation of who the elect are:  "And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."  IMO, the angels are gathering the elect of Israel who have at this point recognized Jesus as their Messiah, according to Zech.12:10, and are being gathered from the four winds. 


Who then are those being gathered from one end of the heavens to the other?  They are the elect saints, the one body of Christ, both Jews and Gentiles, His Church, being gathered in heaven, to return with Him to the earth according to Zech.14:4-5 and Rev.19:14.  Where they will be after being caught up to be with the Lord Jesus and our Father in heaven according to Jn.14:2-4, 28; 1 Thes.4:16-17 and 2 Thes.2:1-8, before the seven year tribulation begins. 


So we have found the ELECT, according to the Scriptures, are all those who receive Jesus as their Lord and Savior with the Church being the first, from Pentecost to the present day, followed by all Israel near the end of the coming seven year tribulation, when they finally recognize Jesus as their Messiah.  From where both will enter into Jesus Millennial kingdom here on the earth, fulfilling Jesus prophecy in Jn.10:16, when there will be one fold with one Shepherd.       



Quasar93

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With trying to stay far away from anything Calvinism which I do not support I support your post bro. :)

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Do not forget Israel. My people says the Lord. In an interesting way, we are all considered Israel according to the apostles' scriptures.

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12 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Israel is Israel .... and the Gentiles are Gentiles

This a scriptural fact from Genesis to Revelation 

Incorrect. This comment is a reflection of replacement theology. Witness the truth.

Romans 4

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Galatians 3

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The above is scriptural fact. There are only the saved and the unsaved. Ethnic lines are drawn by mankind. God sees the heart of people and they are all His children.

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The vehement protesting that erupts whenever it is suggested that the nation of Israel is now anything less than a Hebrew equivalent to a sacred cow flies in the face of Jesus own words....Matthew 21:43 
 ‭Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.‭ 

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18 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

In Mt.24:31 we read the following Scripture: "And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."  NIV.

First of all, for those who want to review a study of Conditional Election as compared to Unconditional election, a good source for both can be found in the following: 

For Conditional election: http://www.gotquestions.org/conditional-election.html

For Unconditional election: http://www.gotquestions.org/unconditional-election.html

IMO, in order for us to become one of God's elect, we must first come to a believing faith in Jesus Christ, who is the reconciling factor of God justifying us as one of His elect, according to Rom.5:9-11.  Who all then become members of the one body of Christ, both Jew and Gentile, His Church, according to 1 Cor.12:12-13.  Since God knows the end from the beginning of all things, He knew this before the foundation of the world, according to Isa.46:10.  "...not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." according to 2 Pet.3:9.

A review of Job 2:1-6 is what appears to be an exact duplication of what has and still is going on between God and Satan for the very souls of mankind.  With the bottom line being, Job is the one who made his decision for God, who then richly rewarded him for it in the end. 

So what about Israel, who rejected Jesus as their Messiah during His first advent?  In Isa.45:4 the following is written: "For Jacob, my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by name; I have surnamed thee, though though hast not known me."  KJV.  However, Israel does not come to know Him, i.e. Jesus, as their Messiah until the 70th and final Week of Dan.9:27/the seven year tribulation is nearly over, as recorded in Zech.12:10, as related to Jesus second advent, seen in Zech.14:4-5.  When "All [A remnant of only one third of them according to Zech.13:8] of Israel will be saved." fulfilling Rom.11:26.

Something seen in Zech.14:5, raises the next issue with the following statement: "...Then the Lord my God will come with all His holy ones with Him."  What that means can be better illuminated in Rev.19:14, where the following is recorded: "The armies of heaven were following Him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean," who are the saints, the one body of Christ, His Church. 

This idea that the armies of heaven are the Pretrib raptured church members cannot be known from Rev 19:14. It's a guess, wishful thinking, a false conclusion and logically fallacious to conclude such a thing from one premise. It is illogical to conclude Y from X. In other words it's untrue that one things follows another from a single premise. In fact, the armies of Rev 19 are just that, armies. As a practical matter, the bride is newly adorned and you think Jesus is going to dress her for battle and take her to war? What nonsense. Further, armies in Rev 19:14 is defined as, 

strateuma: an expedition, an army, a company of soldiers

Short Definition: an army
Definition: an army, detachment of troops. 

The 'wife'is defined thus in Rev 19:7

guné: a woman
Short Definition: a woman, wife, my lady
Definition: a woman, wife, my lady.
 

Are you saying these two are equivalent? Even the term 'saints' is not conclusive.

'Saints' is just Holy ones, witness:

hagios: sacred, holy


Short Definition: set apart, holy, sacred
Definition: set apart by (or for) God, holy, sacred.
 This fits any group that is set apart, holy, Christ-like, or different from the world. Your conclusion cannot be drawn with veracity from the above evidence. The elect is a different matter.

So how did the Church get into heaven?  It pertains to the time when the one body of Christ, His Church will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the sky, according to 1 Thes.4:16-17, known and called, the rapture of the Church.  Which will take place before the 70th Week/seven year tribulation begins, according to 2 Thes.2:1-8.  As Jesus taught in Jn.14:2-4 and 28 and noted by Paul in 1 Thes.4:15, where he wrote: "According to the Lord's own word..."  Meaning the Church is seen returning with Jesus and His angels when He returns to the earth in His second advent, When Mt.24:31 and Rev.19:14 are combined.

Well, no. 1 Thess 4 offers no hint of timing. Declaring timing of the gathering from 1 Thess 4 is made up. 2 Thess 2 does offer timing for the gathering, at the Day of the Lord. Since there is only one gathering of the elect explicitly stated and linked in time/space with the coming of Jesus, not once but twice, there is only a single gathering and that occurs when Jesus appears, and after the beast sits in the Temple declaring himself God.  Lets look at 1 Thess 4:15. 

"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep." Do you read this stuff? How does the above biblical quote mean, "the Church is seen returning with Jesus"? It does not. 1 Thess 4:15 says nothing about Jesus returning with the church. All we are told here is the dead are raised before the elect at the coming of the Lord. You really need to do the legwork and stop parroting.

Back to Mt.24:31 for a closer look at the interpretation of who the elect are:  "And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."  IMO, the angels are gathering the elect of Israel who have at this point recognized Jesus as their Messiah, according to Zech.12:10, and are being gathered from the four winds. 

That's a closer look? Post a verse and offer an opinion? Certainly one holding the stellar credentials you cite can do better.

Who then are those being gathered from one end of the heavens to the other?  They are the elect saints, the one body of Christ, both Jews and Gentiles, His Church, being gathered in heaven, to return with Him to the earth according to Zech.14:4-5 and Rev.19:14.  Where they will be after being caught up to be with the Lord Jesus and our Father in heaven according to Jn.14:2-4, 28; 1 Thes.4:16-17 and 2 Thes.2:1-8, before the seven year tribulation begins. 

Here is hows it's done, a closer look, I mean. First, Pretrib always removes the setting and context of the entire, or relevant, passage and verses in order to confuse the issue, lessen the impact of full story, lending a story telling ability to any verse or fragment. The reality here is Jesus has come and the tribes of the earth mourn. The setting here is Jesus appears above the earth and everyone sees Him. He is not in heaven, Jesus is in the sky and we all see Him. His armies accompany Him. The context is the coming of Jesus to earth from heaven to gather those on the earth. The truth is Jesus and His angels are here to fulfill the will of the Father and the gathering of the elect from earth occurs from everywhere on the earth. That's the meaning of the idiom, "...from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." Jesus does not gather the elect from heaven. 


So we have found the ELECT, according to the Scriptures, are all those who receive Jesus as their Lord and Savior with the Church being the first, from Pentecost to the present day, followed by all Israel near the end of the coming seven year tribulation, when they finally recognize Jesus as their Messiah.  From where both will enter into Jesus Millennial kingdom here on the earth, fulfilling Jesus prophecy in Jn.10:16, when there will be one fold with one Shepherd.       



Quasar93

 

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6 hours ago, Diaste said:

found the ELECT, according to the Scriptures, are all those who receive Jesus as their Lord and Savior with the Church being the first, from Pentecost to the present day

I am unsure you can ignore any of Yeshua's people - Pentecost is irrelevant from you argument since it is not a scriptural benchmark to support what you are saying. If I were you, I would leave that up to the Lord to decide. You have no idea when the Lord decided the 'church' began.

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"Incorrect. This comment is a reflection of replacement theology. Witness the truth."

 

All are in Christ that believe Him and will be saved of both Jew and Gentile 

However, Israel is a separate matter related to end time prophecy and when the Lord is ready He will turn His attention to Israel as a nation ,,,, this is why they are in the land today in unbelief

Some of the nation will believe in Him and will be saved during the coming tribulation period 

Edited by Daniel 11:36

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22 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

I am unsure you can ignore any of Yeshua's people - Pentecost is irrelevant from you argument since it is not a scriptural benchmark to support what you are saying. If I were you, I would leave that up to the Lord to decide. You have no idea when the Lord decided the 'church' began.

It looks like you replied to my post. I promise I didn't say that. :D

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