Psalms37:4 Posted December 30, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 569 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 75 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said: The one that the Lord will bring during the millennium .... this will be the next one There will be no temple during the coming 7 year tribulation period .... only the Western Wall The passage you gave: Revelation 11:2 is about the tribulation temple, the third temple. This is the next temple. The millennium temple, which is the 4th and final temple is found in Ezekiel 40-48. Look at the surrounding verses of the passage you posted, Revelation 11:2. The two witnesses don't appear at a millennium temple for 1260 days. Revelation 11:2 is in the tribulation, not after. Revelation 11:1-3 New King James Version (NKJV) 11 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” Test the spirit you're hearing against what's written in the bible for validity. If you want more scriptures on the upcoming tribulation temple, just say so, I got at least 10 other scriptures. Edited December 30, 2017 by Psalms37:4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted December 30, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 30, 2017 "The passage you gave: Revelation 11:2 is about the tribulation temple, the third temple. This is the next temple" Revelation 11:1 tells of the resurrected immortals of the pre-tribulation gathering .... they are in the Lord's heavenly temple The court which is "without" the temple is on the earth recorded in Revelation 11:2 and has been given to the Gentiles 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psalms37:4 Posted December 31, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 569 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 75 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 12 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said: "The passage you gave: Revelation 11:2 is about the tribulation temple, the third temple. This is the next temple" Revelation 11:1 tells of the resurrected immortals of the pre-tribulation gathering .... they are in the Lord's heavenly temple The court which is "without" the temple is on the earth recorded in Revelation 11:2 and has been given to the Gentiles 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. Revelation 11:1-2 are referring to the same temple. Quote The court which is "without" the temple is on the earth recorded in Revelation 11:2 and has been given to the Gentiles If you think Revelation 11:2 is speaking of a temple on earth, than why do you insist there's no tribulation temple? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus O'Reillius Posted December 31, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,050 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 632 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/29/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 31, 2017 On 12/27/2017 at 9:42 PM, Psalms37:4 said: A clip from a movie in the video below is about as close to John's description from any rapture movie I've ever seen. I agree that Revelation 6:12-14 describes the Return of our Lord on the Day of the Lord. Movies are nice, but they're not real. Quote In summary at the 6th Seal. Revelation 6:12-14 = The rapture of the church. It is not the Rapture of the Church exactly. That happens after the 144,000 are sealed. Quote Revelation 6:15-17 = The world's reaction after being left behind knowing the wrath of God has begun. How about the moment that Christ Returns? The Wrath of God does not begin until a respectful period of silence when the Scroll, which contains the "desolations (which) have been decreed" (Daniel 9:26) are finally released when Jesus breaks the last Seal on the Scroll. Quote Revelation 7:1-8 = The sealing of the 144,000 at the beginning of the tribulation. Marrying this passage of Revelation to the one 'seven' of Daniel 9:27 is possible because Jesus gives us the sequence of events which happen to sequence the Day of the Lord to the one 'seven' in the Olivet Discourse. So, the Great Tribulation (not the "beginning of the tribulation") ENDS with the arrival of the Day of the Lord and the scrolling of the sky. In a parallel account to the broad overview of the Seal/Scroll chronology of Revelation chapters 4-11, the 144,000 again preceded the "harvesting" of the earth - which is another descriptive term for the Rapture. Quote Revelation 7: 9-17 = The church appears in heaven standing before God. Agreed. This is the result of the Rapture, which is not described in this account within the book of Revelation. Quote The 6th Seal is the next prophetic event in the book of Revelation. There's other prophecies mentioned in the old testament that will happen before the rapture of the church and the tribulation commences. No. That's something keras would say. We await the formation of the fourth terrible beast first, then the start of the one 'seven'. Hint: when you see a Temple being built in Jerusalem, the one 'seven' has begun, and you can 'hack the clock' on when the midpoint abomination comes. The Great Tribulation, described coincidental to that in Revelation chapter 13:15-17, then begins. No one knows how long the Great Tribulation goes on, because no one knows when the Day of the Lord will begin. Quote Currently we're at the 5th Seal, the time of the martyrs. In at least the last four years, Christian persecution has hit an all time high with each new year exceeding the previous year. No, probably not. There is no earthly timeframe we can peg to the fifth Seal. It could be coincidental with the start of the Great Tribulation, its ongoing time, or right near the end of it. Again, the one 'seven' has not yet begun. And this whole nonsense of 20 years as an equation for the moment of silence in Heaven is just that: nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted December 31, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 31, 2017 (edited) "Again, the one 'seven' has not yet begun. And this whole nonsense of 20 years as an equation for the moment of silence in Heaven is just that: nonsense" The 70th week has not begun, but when it does the unbelieving world will know [Revelation 6:15-17] Some will turn to the Lord and repent, but most will not Edited December 31, 2017 by Daniel 11:36 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psalms37:4 Posted January 1, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 569 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 75 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 22 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said: The 70th week has not begun, but when it does the unbelieving world will know [Revelation 6:15-17] Some will turn to the Lord and repent, but most will not Now this I actually agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psalms37:4 Posted January 1, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 569 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 75 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 On 12/31/2017 at 2:28 AM, Marcus O'Reillius said: I agree that Revelation 6:12-14 describes the Return of our Lord on the Day of the Lord. Movies are nice, but they're not real. The depiction is real and accurate. A much better translation of the 6th seal than some of the ones I've seen from people speculating a cosmic events like a meteor shower. On 12/31/2017 at 2:28 AM, Marcus O'Reillius said: It is not the Rapture of the Church exactly. That happens after the 144,000 are sealed. No, that's incorrect. The "entire" 6th seal is the rapture of the church. Concurrently the 144,000 are also seal at the same time at the beginning of the tribulation. Not everyone can understand the seals because not everyone's knowledge of prophecy are at the same level. Some just knows more than others while some know far less. Not everyone has the gift of prophecy either. Not everyone is at the same level. If you don't see it, it doesn't mean it's not there. On 12/31/2017 at 2:28 AM, Marcus O'Reillius said: How about the moment that Christ Returns? The Wrath of God does not begin until a respectful period of silence when the Scroll, which contains the "desolations (which) have been decreed" (Daniel 9:26) are finally released when Jesus breaks the last Seal on the Scroll. Revelation 6:15-17 is a description of the people's reaction after being left behind knowing they will now have to endure the wrath of God. The tribulation begins shortly after the moment of silence in prayer. On 12/31/2017 at 2:28 AM, Marcus O'Reillius said: Marrying this passage of Revelation to the one 'seven' of Daniel 9:27 is possible because Jesus gives us the sequence of events which happen to sequence the Day of the Lord to the one 'seven' in the Olivet Discourse. So, the Great Tribulation (not the "beginning of the tribulation") ENDS with the arrival of the Day of the Lord and the scrolling of the sky. In a parallel account to the broad overview of the Seal/Scroll chronology of Revelation chapters 4-11, the 144,000 again preceded the "harvesting" of the earth - which is another descriptive term for the Rapture. No. None of the Seals are open in the tribulation. NONE! This is an error someone made and everyone else just follow suit and accepted the idea without scrutinizing scripture. The first 6 trumpets occur in the first half the tribulation. The 7th tribulation occurs just shortly after the midpoint. The rest of the tribulation are the 7 vials. The tribulation aka the wrath of God ends at the 7th vial. Revelation 15:1 New King James Version (NKJV) 15 Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete. The tribulation aka the wrath of God begins after the 6th Seal, or for those who are technical, at the 1st trumpet. Revelation 6:17 New King James Version (NKJV) 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” None of the Seals, Trumpets and Vials are concurrent, overlapping each other. They are all in sequential order. On 12/31/2017 at 2:28 AM, Marcus O'Reillius said: No. That's something keras would say. No. That's something I've always been saying for years now. Long before ever meeting Keras a few years ago on another Christian site. We don't agree on everything but we both know the world is currently at the 5th Seal and the next prophetic event in the book of Revelation is the 6th Seal. I know this because I know what the other seals are and also how they relate to the signs Christ gave in the discourses. If you can understand the prophecies Jesus gave of the signs before His return posed by the apostles, there would be no doubt in your head. The signs He give are unmistakably obvious. A great example will be the rapture that will usher in the tribulation. Nobody in the world will miss this event when it happens. All, including atheists and unbelievers will begin to believe just as it was 2000 years ago during the first coming when many supernatural signs and miracles took place that ultimately convinced many doubters that Jesus was the real deal. This time, the first great miracle He'll perform will be the rapture of the church when He comes for His bride. On 12/31/2017 at 2:28 AM, Marcus O'Reillius said: We await the formation of the fourth terrible beast first, then the start of the one 'seven'. The manifestation of the 4th beast isn't complete till the later part of the first half of the tribulation after the the a/c uproots 3 other horns, than establish peace, and finally becomes the beast at the midpoint after satan gets kicked out of heaven. Currently he's just the man of sin, the son of perdition. Not yet the beast till the kingdom is given to him. Then he's revealed and goes out conquering and to conquer. Sorry but your one seven is off by a three point five. On 12/31/2017 at 2:28 AM, Marcus O'Reillius said: Hint: when you see a Temple being built in Jerusalem, the one 'seven' has begun, and you can 'hack the clock' on when the midpoint abomination comes. No. The building of the temple isn't what ushers in the tribulation, the rapture is what commences Daniel's 70th week. The first day of the tribulation happens on the day of the rapture, not the construction of the temple. The temple will take far more than one day to complete. If it's the temple that starts the tribulation? On what day of the construction of the temple does the tribulation begin? Nobody's gonna know because they temple will take many days to complete. When you see the foundation of the temple being built, then know the rapture and the tribulation is near. Haggai 2:6-7 New King James Version (NKJV) 6 “For thus says the Lord of hosts: ‘Once more (it is a little while) I will shake heaven and earth, the sea and dry land; 7 and I will shake all nations, and they shall come to the Desire of All Nations, and I will fill this temple with glory,’ says the Lord of hosts. Haggai 2:18-22 New King James Version (NKJV) 18 ‘Consider now from this day forward, from the twenty-fourth day of the ninth month, from the day that the foundation of the Lord’s temple was laid—consider it: 19 Is the seed still in the barn? As yet the vine, the fig tree, the pomegranate, and the olive tree have not yielded fruit. But from this day I will bless you.’” 20 And again the word of the Lord came to Haggai on the twenty-fourth day of the month, saying, 21 “Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, saying: ‘I will shake heaven and earth. 22 I will overthrow the throne of kingdoms; I will destroy the strength of the Gentile kingdoms. I will overthrow the chariots And those who ride in them; The horses and their riders shall come down, Every one by the sword of his brother. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=haggai+2&version=NKJV On 12/31/2017 at 2:28 AM, Marcus O'Reillius said: No one knows how long the Great Tribulation goes on, because no one knows when the Day of the Lord will begin. Many people know the length of the tribulation. Several scriptures gives you the length of the first half and Daniel gave the number of days in the second half. Again as I've said, not everyone's knowledge of prophecy are the same. If you don't know, it only means you don't know, not everyone else. The other thing is there are multiple Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord is the day He comes for His bride at the rapture. The Day of the Lord is also the day of the second coming. The Day of the Lord is also the day of His wrath. The Day of the Lord is also the day of His salvation when He saves His elects. The Day of the Lord is also the day of His glory when He defeats the a/c, etc. There are many days of the Lord during Daniel's 70th week. It's easy to figure out the end once the tribulation began. Luke 17:22 New King James Version (NKJV) 22 Then He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. On 12/31/2017 at 2:28 AM, Marcus O'Reillius said: No, probably not. There is no earthly timeframe we can peg to the fifth Seal. It could be coincidental with the start of the Great Tribulation, its ongoing time, or right near the end of it. Incorrect. We are most definitely at the 5th Seal. It's easy to know this not because of the mounting evidences of Christian persecution hitting all time highs the last 5 years but from other evidences that coincide with the first 4 Seals as well that had taken place as they line up with the signs Christ gave in His discourse as recorded by Matthew and Mark. The Seals are pre-trib events which Jesus called the signs of sorrow. You need to figure out what they are and not deny them simple because you don't understand them yet. On 12/31/2017 at 2:28 AM, Marcus O'Reillius said: And this whole nonsense of 20 years as an equation for the moment of silence in Heaven is just that: nonsense. I don't know where you're get this from. Certainly not from me as I've never said such a thing. Other than that a happy new year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus O'Reillius Posted January 2, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,050 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 632 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/29/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 2, 2018 What we have is a failure to communicate. As is so typical on these eschatology boards, there is more opinion spouted as fact, than real, reliable interpretation. Nowhere in the Bible does it say the one 'seven' as it is expressed by Gabriel to Daniel is called the "tribulation period." You can call it the "70th week" but I prefer how God conveyed it through His messenger to us. Jesus defines the beginning and the end of the "Great Tribulation" in the Olivet Discourse. The Great Tribulation starts with the (midpoint: Daniel 9:27) abomination of desolation. And the Great Tribulation ends with the Day of the Lord's signature sun/moon/star sign. The start is replicated in Revelation chapter 13, verses 14-17. With the talking image of the anti-Christ, the abomination, comes two laws that affect only believers who hold to God's Commandment not to worship the beast or take his mark. The end of that oppression against us comes with the Harvest of Revelation chapter 14. The fact that Jesus gives us the two events, one from Daniel and the other replicated in the sixth Seal, allows us to sequence the one 'seven' of Daniel 9:27 to the Seals. Jesus' sequencing of events places the Rapture as happening after the midpoint abomination and the Great Tribulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted January 2, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 2, 2018 The "rapture" of today's church will happen first .... then the 70th week will come [Revelation 3:10; 6:12-17] Those who become believers during the 70th week tribulation and are killed will be resurrected at the end of the 70th week .... those alive will enter and populate the Lord's millennial kingdom as mortals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus O'Reillius Posted January 2, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,050 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 632 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/29/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 2, 2018 8 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said: The "rapture" of today's church will happen first .... According to you but not according to what Jesus said in the Olivet Discouse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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