Rapture and Tribulation

[TheMatrixHasU71]

Rapture and Tribulation

As my other thread about the Mark of the Beast seems to be going off the rails a bit (because people are talking a lot about who will have to DEAL with the Mark of the Beast) I thought I’d start another thread about the Rapture and Tribulation.

First of all I would like to say just two things to those that do not believe in any type of Rapture. There ARE certain things about the bible, and certainly the gospels in particular that are non negotiable; You must believe in them or you are not saved.

Believing in the Rapture is not one of them.

The problem that I have however, is that there are some who see pre-trib Rapture believers as a bunch of arrogant *ahem*…donkeys…. if we are so self righteous as to believe that God will actually protect us from the 7 year Tribulation, also known as the Wrath of God. Even though it can be very easily proven from Scripture.

One problem that people have with a pre-Trib Rapture is that if Christians will be kept out of the Trib, how is it that there are Christians mentioned in Revelation that will live through the Trib? Very simple.

These people were NOT saved before the Rapture and only come to the truth the hard way, under the reign of antichrist, also known as the man of sin, son of perdition, as well as many other names.

Some Seventh Day Adventists like Doug Batchelor, a well known heretical teacher whose videos can be found on DVD or Youtube believe that certain passages like Revelation 3:10 (which states that we shall be kept OUT of great Tribulation aka the hour of temptation) actually means that we shall be preserved through it.

Utter nonsense as Revelation is very clear that, apart from the Remnant of Israel, all believers in Jesus Christ will be murdered (usually beheaded) for their faith in Jesus Christ and rejection of antichrist and the Mark of the Beast.

Some Rapture believers believe in a mid-Trib Rapture, again because of Revelation 7:14 which speaks of GREAT Tribulation. Now the great Tribulation does start 3 ½ years into the 7 year Trib, but this is an inaccurate understanding as 2 Thess 2:7-8 is clear that the church shall be taken away before the antichrist makes his appearance, and before the signing of the 7 year treaty which is spoken of in Daniel 9:27.

One interesting passage that comes to my mind, is Jude 1:14, quoting Enoch:

The Lord cometh with 10 thousands of His saints ( meant to be understood as 10 thousand x 10 thousand –the ancients didn’t really have an understanding of numbers in the hundreds of millions). Now this is the Lord coming from heaven with His saints (us, not His angels) who were with Him in HEAVEN. Now how did they get up there?

Jesus spoke of those who will not taste death before His return (Matthew 16:28). He also said that we should pray that we will be accounted worthy to escape all these things which shall come upon the earth (Luke 21:36)

1 Thess 4:16-17 speaks of us being caught up to God without having to die first. We go to be with God in heaven. This is not the end of the 7 year Trib as some believe, where we go to be with Christ on the ground at Jerusalem. Because the Scripture says IN THE CLOUDS, that is, IN HEAVEN. Another thing that the ancients had little concept of is the idea of heaven being outside this universe. This is likely where people get the quaint idea of heaven being up there in the clouds somewhere.

1 Thess 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. We were never ever meant to be dragged through the mud yet again! The Tribulation hour is meant for the non believer, a last call for the wayward to come to Christ.

Edited December 30, 2017 by TheMatrixHasU71
Had to change a scripture reference

[Justin Adams]

Maybe Daniel has already been fulfilled bar the shouting? Check out times and dates of that horrific Roman empire and the 100 million saints killed in the most terrible of ways. Roman rule died in 1798 by Napoleon's SWORD. In 1929, out of the ashes, arose the Vatican on seven hill with 110 acres. It is fast becoming a major world influence again along with the UN and most other countries against ISRAEL.

It is possible that this second beast-system has arisen out of the ashes of the first with the above consolidations. The beast being a system of governance as before. Rome has representation in 220 or so countries of the world. This power base could quite easily be the basis for end-times systems as it is already established. Because Rome did indeed call itself as high as the most high God, and because the papal throne is established in the 'temple' - a temple was considered to be any christian gathering in the first century, then maybe we do not have to expect a third temple to be built in Jerusalem.

Remember the defiling of the temple around AD70 and the complete fall of Jerusalem. Destruction all around.

God has ended His animal sacrifices, and any sacrifice in any Judaic temple would be abhorrent to the Lord God. He gave His Son to die for us and did away with those sacrifices. The temple veil was split from top to bottom. No more 'holy of holies' is needed EVER; thus no more Judaic temple is required. Yeshua, God's Messiah, is our Sacrifice, and because the gospel also included Israelites, Saul said that there is no Jew or Greek etc., as they are all one and Abraham is their/our father. This was Yahweh's plan from the beginning.

[frienduff thaylorde]

6 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Maybe Daniel has already been fulfilled bar the shouting? Check out times and dates of that horrific Roman empire and the 100 million saints killed in the most terrible of ways. Roman rule died in 1798 by Napoleon's SWORD. In 1929, out of the ashes, arose the Vatican on seven hill with 110 acres. It is fast becoming a major world influence again along with the UN and most other countries against ISRAEL.

It is possible that this second beast-system has arisen out of the ashes of the first with the above consolidations. The beast being a system of governance as before. Rome has representation in 220 or so countries of the world. This power base could quite easily be the basis for end-times systems as it is already established. Because Rome did indeed call itself as high as the most high God, and because the papal throne is established in the 'temple' - a temple was considered to be any christian gathering in the first century, then maybe we do not have to expect a third temple to be built in Jerusalem.

Remember the defiling of the temple around AD70 and the complete fall of Jerusalem. Destruction all around.

God has ended His animal sacrifices, and any sacrifice in any Judaic temple would be abhorrent to the Lord God. He gave His Son to die for us and did away with those sacrifices. The temple veil was split from top to bottom. No more 'holy of holies' is needed EVER; thus no more Judaic temple is required. Yeshua, God's Messiah, is our Sacrifice, and because the gospel also included Israelites, Saul said that there is no Jew or Greek etc., as they are all one and Abraham is their/our father. This was Yahweh's plan from the beginning.

Justin.    All is not as it seems ,    all is not as it seems.   Rome is NOT against JERUSALEM   ,    oh no my dear friend.  SHE desires to sit OVER IT .

and through the unholy jihad of interfaith delusion,    well now............someone will .      Via the concept of the all inclusive world peace Dung message

the goal is what .    Their words...................to have all as soul mates in one unifying religion that,    TAKE CLOSE HEED to their next words

That brings all together for a one world govt.    SO.                  IT is the spirit that is and will POINT the world as one RIGHT to the beast .

a false prophet points to its head , even as a true prophet points to its head.    but we know the head of the false prophet is WICKED EVIL

while the head of the saints IS CHRIST.   its now getting very clear , where this dung pile satanic world peace all inclusive seeker friendly was always guiding the people RIGHT TOO.

[frienduff thaylorde]

SOUND the alarm , let the trumpet sound.    COME OUT from among all seeker friendly churches who focus on hugs but not doctrine

on unity and fellowship with the world .   Flee them , they are now under the worship of satan and he and his ministirs

are pumping many churches full of the ideal of unity with the world,  unity not doctrine,  good works but not being good.

The acceptance of all who are saved in their eyes is increasing , their salvation has a wide broad way in , which omits truth and feeds on fables.

FLEE the devils like warren and his peace plan, FLEE the men and women of belial whose goal is unity with the world,  with words like love , tolerance

acceptance , ITS a false unity .  their is no correction in their eyes , its a hug em plan that has FAILED massive in times past as the ungodly came into

churches and received acceptance with hugs , but no repentance by preaching sound doctrine.  ITS a joke and a sham.    Hug them to JESUS

IF this worked , then how come the gays and others AINT repented of Squat , the only thing that happened was , the churches fell away .

Now it will worsen to upmost abomination .  as JESUS in time too will be sold out as the exclusive only way , and all other religions will join

and all will be deceived .  and all will hold hand in hand for world peace as satan runs them all.   GET OUT of the churches whose focus and pattern

is not identical to the pattern the early apostels taught who sat under Christ .  CORRECTION is key as well as sound biblical doctrine.

FLEE them ,  or under even worse delusion those go who do not. 

[frienduff thaylorde]

6 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Maybe Daniel has already been fulfilled bar the shouting? Check out times and dates of that horrific Roman empire and the 100 million saints killed in the most terrible of ways. Roman rule died in 1798 by Napoleon's SWORD. In 1929, out of the ashes, arose the Vatican on seven hill with 110 acres. It is fast becoming a major world influence again along with the UN and most other countries against ISRAEL.

It is possible that this second beast-system has arisen out of the ashes of the first with the above consolidations. The beast being a system of governance as before. Rome has representation in 220 or so countries of the world. This power base could quite easily be the basis for end-times systems as it is already established. Because Rome did indeed call itself as high as the most high God, and because the papal throne is established in the 'temple' - a temple was considered to be any christian gathering in the first century, then maybe we do not have to expect a third temple to be built in Jerusalem.

Remember the defiling of the temple around AD70 and the complete fall of Jerusalem. Destruction all around.

God has ended His animal sacrifices, and any sacrifice in any Judaic temple would be abhorrent to the Lord God. He gave His Son to die for us and did away with those sacrifices. The temple veil was split from top to bottom. No more 'holy of holies' is needed EVER; thus no more Judaic temple is required. Yeshua, God's Messiah, is our Sacrifice, and because the gospel also included Israelites, Saul said that there is no Jew or Greek etc., as they are all one and Abraham is their/our father. This was Yahweh's plan from the beginning.

YES JUSTIN , this is the plan of GOD for all whether jew or gentile.  THE SACRIFICE not of bulls and goats , BUT OF HIS OWN SON.

and any who is not covered in that blood by the faith in HIM,  is doomed and doomed to perdtion.    RIGHT ON JUSTIN.    Sing it to the jews and gentiles.  

[TheMatrixHasU71]

22 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Maybe Daniel has already been fulfilled bar the shouting? Check out times and dates of that horrific Roman empire and the 100 million saints killed in the most terrible of ways. Roman rule died in 1798 by Napoleon's SWORD. In 1929, out of the ashes, arose the Vatican on seven hill with 110 acres. It is fast becoming a major world influence again along with the UN and most other countries against ISRAEL.

No brother, Daniel and the Roman rule has not yet been fulfilled exept only partially; some bible prophecies do have a dual nature to them. They can refer to two separate events, the past one being a foreshadowing of the future. Revelation is speaking of an actual person as the antichrist, not just some vague nebulous spirit in the form of cities and nations. There are some who also believe the Pope is the a/c but that is wrong as the a/c will be a military man and politician while the Pope will be the false prophet.

[TheMatrixHasU71]

16 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

All is not as it seems ,    all is not as it seems.   Rome is NOT against JERUSALEM  

Oh yes she is, friend. Rome stand for the two state solution so she is very much against Jerusalem. 

[TheMatrixHasU71]

22 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Maybe Daniel has already been fulfilled bar the shouting?

PS...I wasnt shouting 

[TheMatrixHasU71]

22 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

thus no more Judaic temple is required

Ezekiel is clear that a third temple will be rebuilt. But it will be built because of a lack of faith in the Jews. Because yes there is no real need for a third temple because Jesus is that temple. 

[Justin Adams]

6 minutes ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

Ezekiel is clear that a third temple will be rebuilt. But it will be built because of a lack of faith in the Jews. Because yes there is no real need for a third temple because Jesus is that temple. 

Maybe a meeting place later on in the Millennium where people from all over the world come, but the dimensions of Ezekiel temple will not fit Jerusalem at present.