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Sister

The governers of Judah

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12 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

Sister, I wont' try to speak to specifics, but just want to encourage you that I believe you are on the right track………the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy so we have to know that prophecy is deeper than just the superficial natural fulfillments for those who are looking for a city whose foundations are in God.  There is often if not always more than one layer to prophecy……God’s manifold wisdom…..His word is spiritual in other words and we can’t fathom it without His Help.  For those who follow Christ we are to have our eyes and hearts fixed on the unseen and not on the natural realm…..for us we just see the natural realm as signs  of what is coming in the spiritual.  Like natural Israel is for an ensample to spiritual Israel (the Israel of God).

Since there is this biblical principle of first the natural then the spiritual…….so to me that means we will see natural fulfillments before the spiritual fulfillments of prophecies, in general.  Those who are enamored with the seen realm and things of earth will be given their heart’s desire, earthly Jerusalem, earthly temple and an earthly messiah….antichrist. That is why antichrist comes before the true Christ returns.  Just like the Israelites of old craved an earthly king and wouldn’t endure having an unseen king, so the Lord gave them Saul……….and David a king after God’s own heart came afterward.  Those who press on to a city whose foundations are in God, like Abraham, will find New Jerusalem, an eternal city and eternal life.  So for us we will find the deeper meanings of prophecy as it concerns unseen things and the eternal city, while those who are carnal will only see natural earthly things in prophecy.  The yappy little foxes that ruin the vineyard of the Lord, if they don’t change, will find themselves caught and put outside with the dogs and idolaters…..that speaks to dogs being fleshly carnal creatures, beasts that perish, and idolaters are those who love earthly things.  Hope that makes sense….it is a huge condensation, but thought you might find it encouraging to keep on digging sister.  Bless you.

Heleadethme

Thank you.  You have much wisdom in your words.  You can clearly distinguish between the invisible things and the visible things.  The spiritual and the physical.  God bless you.

I was not trying to cause a stir, but happy to have recognised God's speech and the wisdom he hides in some of the verses.  The glory is his, and I see he chose Judah from the beginning as a forerunner for his saints.

 

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14 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

It's not a puzzle at all.   You are trying to manufacture a problem that doesn't exist.  Zechariah 12 is a prophecy about modern Israel and the governors of Judah refers to the government and leaders of the Nation of Israel today, who are in Judah/Jerusalem.  That is the seat of the nation. 

shiloh357

I have a question.  When Israel was made a state in 1948, and all of Israel which was dispersed throughout the nations were invited to come and live, were they all of Judah only, or from all the tribes?

 

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16 minutes ago, Sister said:

shiloh357

Lets just get to the facts first.

Christ is Judah, the true King of Judah.  His followers also must be of Judah.  Judah is the Royal tribe, the lawgivers.  Who will be reigning with Christ in the millenial kingdom?

Jesus is not Judah.  The Bible doesn't say that Jesus is Judah.   Provide the Scriptures where Jesus is called Judah.   That is something that you are making up in your own mind, and it does not reflect the teaching of Scripture.    Judah is the royal tribe, but you are taking that to a place that is unscriptural and you are simply applying your own fleshly reasoning and coming up with claims that you cannot support from Scripture.

2 minutes ago, Sister said:

shiloh357

I have a question.  When Israel was made a state in 1948, and all of Israel which was dispersed throughout the nations were invited to come and live, were they all of Judah only, or from all the tribes?

 

We don't know, since the records were destroyed in 70 AD.  But that is really neither here nor there.   The leaders of Israel are located geographically, in the area that was granted to the tribe of Judah.   And because of that geographical location, they are called "the governors of Judah."

You are taking a prophecy about the restoration of Israel and twisting it and contorting it into false doctrine that true Christians will reject.   You need to come back down to earth and learn how to interpret Scripture.    You are woefully lacking in that skill.

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12 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

First of all,  Where in the Bible are believers called "Christ's Seed?"  Can you show us the Scriptures that say that?   Where are you getting that from?S

 Galatians 3:6   Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

  Galatians 3:7   Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

 Galatians 3:8   And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

  Galatians 3:9   So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

 Galatians 3:14   That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 Galatians 3:16   Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

 Galatians 3:26   For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

  Galatians 3:27   For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

  Galatians 3:28   There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

  Galatians 3:29   And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

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Secondly, where are believers in the Bible EVER called "Judah?"   Can you show us the Scriptures where that is stated?

Why did God say precept upon precept, line upon line, a little here and a little there?

What do you think he mean't?

If we can understand that Christ came to save all that believe in him whether Jew or Gentile, and that the promise is that he who overcomes will be given their reward at the coming, ...their white robes and crowns,....and that they will reign with Christ for a thousand years....then that's the first precept.

The second precept (for me), is that Christ is the King of Judah, and Judah is the Royal ruling family, so if his saints are with him, then they would be of that same kingdom as their Lord - Judah. 

 

Now in Zechariah,  please read carefully;

Zechariah 12:7   The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
 

Who will be saved first?  The saints. Do you agree?  Those who have followed the Lamb will be in the first resurrection.  So they must be of the tents of Judah.  The saints are gentiles also.

 

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Seems like you  have a lot of made up theology that isn't really from the Bible and cannot be defended biblically.   Where are you getting this information from?

Zechariah 12, as I have explained.

If you have adopted Christ's spirit, then you will also be of Judah.  Not because of your bloodline, but because of your faith and loyalty.  You will be in the ruling family of the resurrected saints reining with Christ.  It's not a bad thing, but a good thing, how it's been planned from the beginning and what Judah's end position will be.

 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Sister said:

 Galatians 3:6   Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

  Galatians 3:7   Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

 Galatians 3:8   And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

  Galatians 3:9   So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

 Galatians 3:14   That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 Galatians 3:16   Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

 Galatians 3:26   For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

  Galatians 3:27   For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

  Galatians 3:28   There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

  Galatians 3:29   And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

That refers to be being the seed of Abraham, NOT the seed  of Christ.  We are not the offspring of Christ.    You need to actually read the passages you are quoting, because they are not saying what you are claiming they say.  
 

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Why did God say precept upon precept, line upon line, a little here and a little there?

What do you think he mean't?

If we can understand that Christ came to save all that believe in him whether Jew or Gentile, and that the promise is that he who overcomes will be given their reward at the coming, ...their white robes and crowns,....and that they will reign with Christ for a thousand years....then that's the first precept.

The second precept (for me), is that Christ is the King of Judah, and Judah is the Royal ruling family, so if his saints are with him, then they would be of that same kingdom as their Lord - Judah. 


 

Again, you are making up a claim that believers are called Judah, and that Jesus is Judah and you have no Scriptural backing and the fact that you cannot provide any Scripture proves my point.   "Line upon line, precept upon precept"  only applies to what is written in the Bible and you have no Scripture to back up your ridiculously unbiblical claim.    You cannot just make up stuff and pretend it is biblical.   That is adding to The Scriptures which is forbidden by God and you are placing yourself under His curse for doing so.   You need to repent of this sin.

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The second precept (for me), is that Christ is the King of Judah, and Judah is the Royal ruling family, so if his saints are with him, then they would be of that same kingdom as their Lord - Judah. 

Being a member of the tribe of Judah is ethnic, not spiritual.  The Bible doesn't spiritualize "Judah" to include Christians.   You have a  made up, fabricated precept and it is dishonest to make this up and then try to impose it on the Bible to suit your agenda.   It is also forbidden by God. 

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Now in Zechariah,  please read carefully;

Zechariah 12:7   The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
 

Who will be saved first?  The saints. Do you agree?  Those who have followed the Lamb will be in the first resurrection.  So they must be of the tents of Judah.  The saints are gentiles also.

 

Oh my...   You have no clue...    The word "saved" is used in Zechariah 12 to refer to physical deliverance, not salvation from sin.   If you were a student of Scripture, you would know that the Bible uses "salvation" or "saved"  to refer to different things like Preservation, restoration, deliverance, security and healing.   In the context of Zechariah 12 "saved"  is talking about physical deliverance of the nation, not a spiritual salvation from sin.   You are not  competent to interpret Scripture.

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Zechariah 12, as I have explained.

If you have adopted Christ's spirit, then you will also be of Judah.  Not because of your bloodline, but because of your faith and loyalty.  You will be in the ruling family of the resurrected saints reining with Christ.  It's not a bad thing, but a good thing, how it's been planned from the beginning and what Judah's end position will be.

 

That is complete and utter garbage.   No one is of Judah except by bloodline.   It is not spiritual concept and the Bible never calls Christians, "Judah."   You twist and add to Scripture.   You need to be banned from teaching on this board as you are not theologically or doctrinally sound and what you teach should be abominated by all true deliverers.   Your teachings are anathema.

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4 hours ago, Sister said:

Heleadethme

Thank you.  You have much wisdom in your words.  You can clearly distinguish between the invisible things and the visible things.  The spiritual and the physical.  God bless you.

I was not trying to cause a stir, but happy to have recognised God's speech and the wisdom he hides in some of the verses.  The glory is his, and I see he chose Judah from the beginning as a forerunner for his saints.

 

Amen, Zech 12 is speaking of the day of the Lord, the return of Christ. and the defeat of His enemies when we will finally see all things put under His feet.  Heavenly Zion is all over the scriptures, not long ago the Lord was gracious to give me a glimpse of it's glory in scripture.  Carnal minds will never perceive it, it is revealed only by the Holy Spirit.  Amen, we are blazing a trail to the mountains.......heavenly Zion!  Those who left Egypt were to continue all the way to the Promised Land, Mt. Zion.......those who left Sodom were to continue on to the mountains........those who fled "Jerusalem" when she was about to be judged were to flee to the mountains.....all speaking of heavenly Zion/New Jerusalem. (why earthly jerusalem is likened to Sodom and Egypt in Rev.)

Those who are enamored with earthly things will receive of earthly things which perish, and those who are seeking the unseen eternal things will find it.  Each one needs to decide whether we are citizens of earth or citizens of a heavenly kingdom........thoughts ABOVE, eyes ABOVE, affections ABOVE, treasures ABOVE........or on earth.  For that is the gospel of our Savior, and there is no other gospel and no other Saviour.

(just to add the saviours on Mt. Zion enforce the rule of Christ, ruling & reigning with Him,  it is not speaking of saviours in the sense of atoning for sins....that needs to be crystal clear because there are those who very wrongly say we will be Christs partly based on that verse.......but it is only enforcing, like where it also says somewhere He makes angels and His ministers a flame of fire to carry out, enforce God's will.)

Bless you for this conversation, it is encouraging to me too.  I find the Lord often brings things out as we go along when a discussion is allowed to continue without being broken up and ruined by little foxes.......the table of the Lord, His vineyard and drinking wine together....the word of God is so rich and deep, deep and rich!

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5 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Jesus is not Judah.  The Bible doesn't say that Jesus is Judah.   Provide the Scriptures where Jesus is called Judah.

Revelation 5:5   And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

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For anyone that is interested, Christ is from the lineage of Judah.

David was the King of Judah.  Follow his line in Matthew 1, and this is the bloodline of Judah.  This bloodline goes all the way down to Joseph who married Mary.  Joseph was not Jesus' biological father as we all know, but this is the generation of Jesus Christ.  Mary was also of Judah, but her bloodline not mentioned.  Mary's fathers name was Joachim (not sure of the spelling), and her mother's name was Anna.  I believe Joseph and Mary are related.  Both from Judah.

 

If we want to go even further, Judah's bloodline started from Abraham, before the twelve tribes were formed.

Abraham

Isaac

Jacob

12 sons of Jacob

then Juda's lineage recorded in Matt 1, ...not Gad, not Dan, not Rueben, not Issachar etc, but follow Jacob's son Judas in Matthew 1, it's all his line.

 Matthew 1:1   The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

  Matthew 1:2   Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and
Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;

  Matthew 1:3   And
Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;

  Matthew 1:4   And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;

  Matthew 1:5   And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;


  Matthew 1:6   And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;

You can look up the rest of the chapter.  It ends with Joseph, strange, but not strange because they all Mary's relatives also.

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1 hour ago, Sister said:

Revelation 5:5   And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

That verse says that Jesus is OF the tribe of Judah.   It does not say that Jesus is Judah.   Again, you need to actually READ what the verses are saying.

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12 minutes ago, Sister said:

For anyone that is interested, Christ is from the lineage of Judah.

David was the King of Judah.  Follow his line in Matthew 1, and this is the bloodline of Judah.  This bloodline goes all the way down to Joseph who married Mary.  Joseph was not Jesus' biological father as we all know, but this is the generation of Jesus Christ.  Mary was also of Judah, but her bloodline not mentioned.  Mary's fathers name was Joachim (not sure of the spelling), and her mother's name was Anna.  I believe Joseph and Mary are related.  Both from Judah.

 

If we want to go even further, Judah's bloodline started from Abraham, before the twelve tribes were formed.

Abraham

Isaac

Jacob

12 sons of Jacob

then Juda's lineage recorded in Matt 1, ...not Gad, not Dan, not Rueben, not Issachar etc, but follow Jacob's son Judas in Matthew 1, it's all his line.

 Matthew 1:1   The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

  Matthew 1:2   Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and
Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;

  Matthew 1:3   And
Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;

  Matthew 1:4   And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;

  Matthew 1:5   And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;


  Matthew 1:6   And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;

You can look up the rest of the chapter.  It ends with Joseph, strange, but not strange because they all Mary's relatives also.

It is one thing to say that Jesus is from the tribe of Judah.   But you're argument is that Jesus IS Judah and that Christians are "Judah" and the Bible simply doesn't say that. 

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