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Established proof for the Shroud of Turin

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24 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Any disobedience , transgression of TORAH,  any tiny thought opposed to Yahweh,

if any part in the heart or will is rebelling, if there is ANY "I WILL"('I don't care if it is sin'), 

then it is sin deserving death.

So you require adherence to Old Testament Law.  Good to know where you stand.

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27 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

So you require adherence to Old Testament Law.  Good to know where you stand.

I don't require anything - it's not my duty or job - here.   Read the New Testament - where JESUS Answers someone who asks JESUS what to DO to inherit eternal life.  JESUS answers THAT QUESTION DIRECTLY (maybe you just conveniently forgot ? )

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2 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

So you require adherence to Old Testament Law.  Good to know where you stand.

It seems not knowing anything is closer.  This is all Yahweh's Word. His Instructions,  Scripture, TORAH unchanged, as Jesus Says.

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?
Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminateG3120 nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
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26 minutes ago, PepperS said:

This has become silly. Seekers reading this would think Christians are crazy. 

Those seeking the truth and salvation in Jesus should definitely not seek the truth on any anonymous internet sites.  It is too crazy and not reliable.

Too much information posted is anti-Scripture, and not often flagged/ tagged/ plainly identified as such.  No plans for that either, on any forum I know of.

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17 hours ago, PepperS said:

This has become silly. Seekers reading this would think Christians are crazy.

Hey pepper ,  psst , yes pepper ,  they accused and thought JESUS was beside himself , crazy and had a demon .

THEY WILL US TOO .    Here is my concern and worry about what folks think of me ,  SO BE IT ,  I had rather be deemed crazy , an anti Christ  , BY the majority of even christians

than to hear that same majority praising me as some good christain .  For if they did that ,  I would be false .     Yes , I mean FALSE .    if most christanity approved of me

I tell not just you , but every man woman and child on this site ,  I WOULD BE FALSE , just like the false ones most love to sit under .

Now,   let all put those hands up and give a mighty shout of praise to the LORD and have the joy and peace of Knowing HIM , no matter what the cost.

For its only gain to learn HIM .    Put those hands up , put them up and praise the LORD .

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For their is NO JOY , LIKE the JOY OF THE LORD .    OH yes , I say , their is no joy like OBEYING HE who has saved us and can keep us from falling .

Their is no joy that can rejoice the heart , like the JOY the LORD gives unto a hearer and a DOER of his word .

Hands up folks , one and all,   hands up and praise the LORD .

But their shall be no FEAR LIKE the FEAR those will have on the day of judgment who were hearers only and had deceived themselves .

For their is the son of lawlessness ,  And he is not CHRIST .   no no .    triple no .   THE SON of man did not come to establish lawlessness, BUT RATHER

to write HIS laws in our minds and on our hearts and Love fulfills .   Love does not  trangresss  the law ,  IT FULLFILLS IT .   

Let us read that last line a bit .     If ye have EVEN respect of persons ye commit sin and are CONVINCED of THE LAW as TRANSGRESSORS .  

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you , don't make void the law , which even said if you see your neighbors , a strangers or even your enemies

beast out wandering to NOT hide your eyes , BUT return it .     LOVE don't make void the law .  IT FULLFILLS IT .

But somehow folks think the law can be transgressed because we under grace .    NO if you a willfull transgressor , YOU DONT KNOW LOVE , YOU DONT KNOW HIM .

Love fulfills it does not transgress .    And not a one of us are to be a JUDGE of the law .   aka , ya cant pass the death sentence written in the law

against the guilty .  BUT YOU can , must and must do it fast ,  CORRECT ONE in error .     AKA get up and do something and don't just hug em to hell.

For JOHN said , HE who hates his brother is a murder and YOU KNOW CHURCH that no MURDER has ETERNAL LIFE IN THEM .

DO not hate your brother , neighbor in your HEART ,   In any way you shall REBUKE , CORRECT HIM and don't allow sin upon him.

HEY haters of those who warn and rebuke ,  YOU the haters for you allow sin upon them and wont correct them . SO WHO is the hater now .    I would

love anyone to challenge this .  YOU CANT .   STOP hating and start correcting or perish on the day of the LORD . 

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20 hours ago, simplejeff said:

I don't require anything - it's not my duty or job - here.   Read the New Testament - where JESUS Answers someone who asks JESUS what to DO to inherit eternal life.  JESUS answers THAT QUESTION DIRECTLY (maybe you just conveniently forgot ? )

No, you forgot that Jesus gave us two commandments.  Maybe you just skipped over that part.  If you're counting the law of Moses to save you, you're not relying on the blood of Jesus.

1. We gain bold access to God in worship and prayer

The Bible is clear that every person is alienated and separated from God because of our sin (Colossians 1:21). That means even the best of us are actually unable to approach God to offer worship or prayer. Because of our sins, we remain at a distance from him.

But the Bible tells Christians to come boldly into God’s presence, “We have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus” (Hebrews 10:19). If you are a Christian today, you can have boldness and confidence as you approach God with your prayers and your worship, because you are no longer far away from God, “Now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been made near by the blood of Christ(Ephesians 2:13).

It is because of the blood of Jesus Christ that we have the great privilege of pouring our hearts out to God (Psalm 62:8) casting our cares on him (1 Peter 5:7) and praying any time and any place in the power of the Spirit (Ephesians 6:18). Does your prayer life reflect the kind of relationship you have with God through the blood of his Son?

2. Forgiveness of sin

In addition to being able to enter into God’s presence through the blood of Christ, we are also forgiven of our sins.  Ephesians 1:7 says that, “In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace.”  Because of Christ’s shed blood, God is able to forgive us for our sins and give the punishment that we deserved to Christ.

Christ had a special way of explaining this to his disciples during the Last Supper, which also was the Passover meal celebration.

He said, “For this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins” (Matthew 26:28).  He was telling his disciples that just as the blood of the lamb delivered the Hebrews from the night of terrors in Egypt, so Christ’s own blood would deliver the people who were covered by it from the judgment of God on the last day.

This truth is expressed beautifully in the hymn, “Nothing But the Blood”:

What can wash away my sin?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
What can make me whole again?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Oh! Precious is the flow
That makes me white as snow;
No other fount I know,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus…

Take joy, Christian, that Christ has cleansed you from your sin with his blood!

3. Consciences cleansed

Through the blood of Christ, Christians receive the cleansing of their consciences.  Hebrews 9:14 says, “…how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.”

This is an amazing promise! Christ cleansing our consciences from acts that lead to death! How does He do it? By the blood of Christ, because on the cross He offered Himself unblemished to God! He offered Himself—His unblemished, perfect life—as a sacrifice to God for us on account of our sins. Therefore, He alone is able to cleanse our consciences through His blood.

Even though all of our minds have been corrupted by sin and seared as with a hot iron (1 Timothy 4:2), Christ can cleanse our consciences.  We are able to live right lives and think right thoughts once again in Christ.  This is great news for those who are burdened by a sinful past and corrupted consciences.

4. We are progressively cleansed from more and more sin

Not only are we forgiven from sin, but we are also sanctified through the blood of Christ.  Hebrews 13:12 tells us that “Jesus also suffered…in order to sanctify the people through his own blood” (Hebrews 13:12).  God is calling his people be holy as he is, which is one of the reasons Jesus suffered.  Without holiness, no one will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

After we are forgiven of our sins and able to enter into a new relationship with God, it makes sense that God wants us to be in a new relationship with the sin that previously condemned us as well.  That is why he gives us the power, through the blood of his Son, to be cleansed from our sinful behaviors.

5. We are able to conquer the accuser of the brethren

Because of Christ’s sacrifice and the pouring out of His blood on our behalf, we can trust in the righteousness of Christ and not our own righteousness when we are accused by our enemy.  Revelation 12:11 says, “And they have conquered him [Satan] by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death.”  As believers, we know that we cannot stand on our own merit or because of our own deeds.  We know that our good deeds are as filthy rags before God (Isaiah 64:6) and that Christ’s righteousness attributed to us is how we are able to stand up against accusations.

Charles Spurgeon spoke these comforting words:

I know what the devil will say to you.  He will say to you, ‘You are a sinner!’ Tell him you know you are, but that for all that you are justified.  He will tell you of the greatness of your sin.  Tell him of the greatness of Christ’s righteousness.  He will tell you of all your mishaps and your backslidings, of your offences and your wanderings.  Tell him, and tell your own conscience, that you know all that, but that Jesus Christ came to save sinners, and that, although your sin be great, Christ is quite able to put it all away.

6. Rescued out of a sinful way of life

…you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot. (1 Peter 1:18-19)

Being ransomed from futile ways is another benefit Christians have through the blood of Jesus.  We are rescued from a life lived devoid of meaning and are brought into a relationship with God and the ability to live in his will and with purpose.

Compared to the precious blood of Jesus Christ, the most valuable things of this earth (like silver and gold) are reduced to meaningless, perishable things.  That is because the blood of Jesus gives Christians salvation of their souls, forgiveness from sins, access to God, victory over the enemy, and the power to live with a clear conscience, something that the gold and silver items in the Old Testament temple could never do.

Source: Power in the Blood of Jesus Christ

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

No, you forgot that Jesus gave us two commandments.

Those are not skipped, but acknowledged,  without pulling it out of the rest of Scripture, without ignoring plain Scripture that you apparently deny and don't accept.

The theory espoused by those who think they can sin freely without repentance are part of several different versions of false gospels,  by several different groups perpetrated all over the world, deceiving billions of souls.

Edited by simplejeff

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Folks will do as they do and believe as they will.

But on the day of judgment many will surely wish that had just learned Christ and the pattern and words of also the apostles .

Many will howl on the day of judgment .    And what should terrify folks , is this particular many I speak of will also be many WHO THOUGHT they followed Christ .

As I have said before , so say I now again,  OPEN bibles and read Only bibles for many deceivers abound . 

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On 1/3/2018 at 9:58 AM, Quasar93 said:

You might be interested in the notes Joel [Not the prophet! ] took from the documentary The Case for Christ's Resurrection. Whether the scientists involved were biased or not is unknown, but you can at least google for rebuttals to each of these and judge for yourself.

The case against the authenticity of the shroud:

1. The Carbon 14 dating test placed the sample taken to be woven between 1260 and 1390 - consistent with the earliest known record of the shroud in 1353.

2. The d'Arcis memorandum dated to be from 1389 claims that the shroud was painted by an artist.

The case for the authenticity of the shroud:

1. The uniqueness of Christ's wounds
A. Puncture wounds on the scalp
B. Wound in anatomical right side - the same width as a 1st century Roman lance
C. Wounds on hands and feet consistent with nails
D. Abrasion marks on shoulders consistent with having carried heavy object
E. Over 100 scourge marks on torso and legs consistent with Roman whip

2. Coins Contemporary with Crucifixion
A. One minted by Pontius Pilate 29-33 AD contains rare misspelling/ imprint on anatomical right eye of shroud
B. Anatomical left eye - imprint of Julia "lepton" minted only in 29 AD in honor of Caesar's mother.

3. Rare limestone on bloody foot area called "travertine aragonite" found in small radius around Jerusalem.

4. Imprints of numerous flowers indigenous to Palestine and bloom March and April/ ie "pistacia lentiscus, chrysanthemum coronarium"
A. Appear plucked longer than 24 hours but less than 72 hours
B. Pollen grains imaged on shroud including "gundelia tunaforte" or crown of thorns plant
C. None of the pollens were coated in tempora - matching those imaged

5. Image suggests rigormortis, but not putrifaction - consistent with body being dead over 24 hours but not 72 hours.

6. Blood areas are human blood
A. Contain hemoglobin
B. Positive test for serum "albumen"
C. No image of blood - indicates blood was on shroud before image

7. No evidence of painting or of pigment
A. No directionality, capillarity, brush strokes, or pigment
B. No shadows or outlines

8. Blood flow consistent with gravity
A. Law of gravity discovered 1693
B. Law of blood circulation discovered 1666

9. Ethnologists and anthropologists identified victim as man of semitic origin in early 30s - image includes "payos" or sidelocks visible on sides of face

10. Exceptional situation
A. Unusual for crucified victims to be buried in fine linen
B. Normally they are thrown in mass graves

11. No image of thumbs
- A forger or artist would have had to know that nails through the wrist damaged the median nerves causing thumbs to involuntarily turn toward the palms - thus no image on cloth.

12. Nails through wrist contrary to trend in medieval art

13. Talent of artist would have to exceed that of the known great artists

14. 3D distance information - No other known photographs have 3D qualities encoded.

15. Over 150,000 hours of STURP research concluded the image is of a real man and not a painting or product of an artist.

16. Carbon 14 dating process disputed - Work of Ray Rogers claims the tested sample was taken from a patched/rewoven area of shroud.

Until He comes,



There's more!

* At a microscopic level, we can see the fiber weaving pattern--like a checkerboard. INDIVIDUAL SQUARES ARE DARK OR LIGHT ON THE SHROUD. It would take an electron microscope and a microscopic "brush" to "paint" the shroud.

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