BibleLeader Posted January 4, 2018 Group: Newbie Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/04/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 4, 2018 Hello everyone, I am new to these type of forums but, have already read some very interesting questions and replies. I have a question that, I would like to engage a discussion on to see what many people feel and think about the Church. My question is simply this: As an UNCHURCHED (either never attended or STOPPED AFTER THEY WERE QUITE YOUNG); As an UNCHURCHED (NEVER ATTENDED) As an INACTIVE PERSON (STOPPED ATTENDING FOR SOME REASON) Can you tell me "What's good about the Church?" I would love to hear what some of you have to say to this question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GandalfTheWise Posted January 4, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 24 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,459 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 2,377 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/23/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 4, 2018 I think one must start with the definition of "church". I think that this can be used in two fundamentally different ways. One is as the universal church that refers to all believers who have God's Holy Spirit inside of them. In this post, I'll use the capitalized term "Church" for that. The other use is for a particular local groups for which I'll use the term congregation (which I'll extend to cover any group ranging from house churches to independent congregations to denominational ones to small groups). As a pragmatic matter, most congregations will contain a mixture of people who are in the Church and those who are not. The semantics and theology behind phrasing things this way could be debated for centuries and indeed have been been. However, most would agree that there are all of those that God knows are His in the world and local groups are composed partially of those who act like it and partially of those who do not. I'm going to answer 3 questions. What is good about the Church? What is good about local congregations? and then I'll get to the OP. What is good about the Church? It is God's manifest presence on earth inside of believers (or as Paul said "we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us" II Corinthians 4:7 NIV). As Jesus replied to those who asked where the Kingdom of God would be (as they were probably expecting it to be some type of renewal of David's kingdom with an independent Israel): 20 “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, 21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.” Luke 17:20-21 NIV. As Jesus walked the earth showing God to humanity, God's Holy Spirit is doing the same thing in believers. As believers spiritually mature (which admittedly can be a long process for some), the fruit of the Spirit which is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control (Galatians 5:22-23 NIV) will become the characteristic of those people. This change can be so apparent that it is obvious to all. As Jesus said at the Last Supper, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13:34-35 NIV. As Jesus described in Matthew, those in the Kingdom will do these things: 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ (Matthew 25:35-36 NIV) The Church (as God intends) is His presence on the earth. The same ministry of Christ to heal the hurting, extend the offer of God's grace and mercy, and to start bringing about His Kingdom on earth (as Jesus described as “The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal till it was all leavened.” Matthew 13:33 NKJV) God's Kingdom will come about not through political and external forces but by the internal transformation of people so that the Law is no longer enforced from outside but is a natural thing that flows from inside of us. "I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people." (Hebrews 8:10 NIV). As James put it, 13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let them show it by their good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. ... 17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving,considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere.18 Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness. (James 3:13, 17-18 NIV) What is good about local congregations? They contain some of those in the Church. To the extent that those in the Church are active, mature, fruitful, and united in Christ in a particular congregation, God's purpose for the Church will be realized in tangible ways in that local congregation. (Sadly, to the extent that the Church is not active and healthy in a local congregation, God's Kingdom might not be readily apparent and its absence keenly felt.) The local congregation is where we interact with the Church. It is where we share many of our gifts and talents with others. It is where we can tangibly live out "By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another" for the world to see. To the extent that a congregation honors those mature and wise members of the Church, a congregation will be showing characteristics of the Church and God's Kingdom. The local congregation can become how we connect with those in the Church to pray for each other, worship God together, learn together, live life together, and spiritually grow together. Now, obviously I have approached the question from the standpoint of those inside the Church and congregations, not those on the outside. Now I'll go for the questions in the OP. I think that the most important issue is presenting the Church and not a particular congregation. While physically showing up in a congregation might be a start to learn about the Church, it is spiritually joining the Church that is most important. I firmly believe that each human being is a unique creation of God that He intended to show His glory to the world in a unique way. We have all been corrupted and infected away from that ideal and cannot fix that on our own. We need God's power and help to become who He intends for us to become. It is not about self-improvement, learning what rules to follow in the right congregation, getting involved in good activities, and just trying to be better people. It is about God coming inside of us and transforming us from the inside out so that we become better people. From a temporal standpoint, in healthy congregations, there are nice people, the opportunity to volunteer for helpful activities, a chance to get away from the rat race of the world, and a chance to experience another side of life. Many congregations are simply good places to be and be part of because of the people who are there. From an eternal standpoint, healthy congregations will show what the Church is and what the eternal Kingdom of God (which to a large extent is the type of society and life we long for because we were created to fit into such a life) is like, and how to spiritually join the Church. I don't want to derail this question into a theological debate so please just take this paragraph as an observation of two views that can affect one's understanding of what I have said. This paragraph is overly simplistic!! My purpose is just to point out the two different views, not accurately describe them or comment on them. I've noticed that some denominations and congregations tend to have a view that those in the Church are there through the authority of the Church as extended by faith through rituals. Baptism being a gift extended from God through the Church to the individual with the emphasis being on the authority of the church to offer it. In such a view, the Church would consist of all such people who undergo the ordinances and rituals (and are then considered members of that congregation and the Church) and that God's work in their lives may become more or less apparent over time. A second view is that spiritually joining the Church can be accomplished between the individual and God without requiring the authority of the Church as a mediator of some type. For those with the second view, being a member or adherent of a local congregation is a completely separate issue from being a member of the Church. It is from this perspective that my answer was written. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted January 4, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,228 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,649 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted January 4, 2018 The Church (all true believers) is the bride of Christ and the body of Christ. We belong to Him and mutually love Him and He us. As such we love others in whom Christ lives. We try to look beyond the faults of others and see their need so that we can share His love with all. It is not always easy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted January 4, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 4, 2018 17 hours ago, BibleLeader said: Can you tell me "What's good about the Church?" As to the church, hwich chruch ? The form of religion with no power ? OR Luke 7:22 So he replied to the messengers, "Go back and report to ... biblehub.com/luke/7-22.htm Then he told John's disciples, "Go back to John and tell him what you have seen and heard--the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised to life, and the Good News is being preached to the poor. English Standard Version 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted January 4, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.34 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted January 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Willa said: The Church (all true believers) is the bride of Christ and the body of Christ. We belong to Him and mutually love Him and He us. As such we love others in whom Christ lives. We try to look beyond the faults of others and see their need so that we can share His love with all. It is not always easy. Here if we really LOVED them we would , well let me just change one part of what you said. WE try and look beyond faults of others , SHOULD SAY, we do all with lightning SPEED to correct such faults so as one can be restored. LOVE . IT DOES desire none to perish. and if even paul told those who were taking others to court , had an UTTER FAULT then reminded them SUCH ones WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM. ME THINKS and KNOWS its high time to get serious and grave again towards those who err IF WE LOVE THEM . if not just hug them and say all is well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted January 5, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.82 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 5, 2018 22 hours ago, BibleLeader said: Hello everyone, I am new to these type of forums but, have already read some very interesting questions and replies. I have a question that, I would like to engage a discussion on to see what many people feel and think about the Church. My question is simply this: As an UNCHURCHED (either never attended or STOPPED AFTER THEY WERE QUITE YOUNG); As an UNCHURCHED (NEVER ATTENDED) As an INACTIVE PERSON (STOPPED ATTENDING FOR SOME REASON) Can you tell me "What's good about the Church?" I would love to hear what some of you have to say to this question. It is important that a new Christian tries to find a true bible believing Church. One that has a fellowship that embraces God. A Church that preaches the truth. That way they have a knowledge of who Christ is along with reading their Bible daily and in prayer. Today these Churches are far and few between now since many Churches are not with God. There are a few out there. It is important to not grasp those Churches that are teaching false doctrine and are not the "Philadelphia" Church we read about in the book of Revelation. It is best not to attend a Church unless your Christian discernment and the Holy Spirit tells you this is where you belong. You can attain that by asking in Prayer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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