What does it mean to "keep the Sabbath"? (Read question's description)

[JoeCanada]

Hi everyone,

I have a question.

In Rev 12:17 and Rev 14:12, it says "they which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus"

If we are "under grace and not law", then who is it who keeps the commandments of God? And which commandments of God is scripture referring to?

Are there two groups of followers here, the Jews who keep the commandments of God and the Christians who have the testimony of Jesus?

It appears that in Rev 12:17, that the dragon goes after the woman's offspring, the Christians.

Does anyone have an answer?....or some insight?

[Willa]

2 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi everyone,

I have a question.

In Rev 12:17 and Rev 14:12, it says "they which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus"

If we are "under grace and not law", then who is it who keeps the commandments of God? And which commandments of God is scripture referring to?

Are there two groups of followers here, the Jews who keep the commandments of God and the Christians who have the testimony of Jesus?

It appears that in Rev 12:17, that the dragon goes after the woman's offspring, the Christians.

Does anyone have an answer?....or some insight?

I suspect that one faction is 7th Day Adventists.  There is a group among them that believe everyone who does not worship on Saturday is going to hell.  That is not what our statement of faith states.  I might add that this area is supposed to be for those who agree with our statement of faith, but a lot of latitude has been given and I am sorry that is causing you confusion.

"Mankind is absolutely unable to fulfill the heavy demands of God’s righteousness, holiness and glory. Therefore, God, in sending His Only Begotten Son, has accomplished redemption for us through the shedding of Jesus’ blood. Because of His Son’s death, God has forgiven us of our sins, reconciled us to Himself, and justified us by making Him our righteousness.

We believe that salvation is a gift received by faith alone, in Messiah alone, and is expressed in the individual’s recognition and repentance of sin, and the acceptance of the risen Messiah as Saviour, Lord and God."

Click on the link to our statement of faith that is at the bottom of the page in the purple area for the whole statement.

[OldCoot]

16 hours ago, Willa said:

 Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

The early Gentile Christians met on the first day of the week since Paul had preached to the Jews in the synagogs on the 7th day.  They had begged that he preach to them also.  It is only fitting that we celebrate resurrection day.  

 

That context is right, but I am convinced it was Saturday evening, when the first of the week starts.  The Havdolah meal that closes the Shabbat.  It seems to fit more with what is going on there.  Eutychus eats  a bit much, falls asleep, and tumbles out a window and gets killed.  He is brought back to life.  Paul speaks to midnight since he is leaving the next day.   It might be a bit of a stretch to think Paul spoke from, say, 0800 Sunday morn to midnight, even though it is possible.  The Saturday evening concept seems more logical. 

But it does support the case that the early church met on the 1st of the week.  To the Corinthians, Paul told them to take up the collections on the 1st of the week also.  They would have to meet to do that.  There was not a wire transfer thing going on.   That probably is because such money collection things were not done on the Shabbat.  So the congregational activity seems to focus around the 1st day.  

Edited November 4, 2018 by OldCoot

[Blood Bought 1953]

6 hours ago, Betha said:

I'll just focus on your first highlight HE (JESUS) is our sabbath rest

from that people ASSUME they themselves must rest and do nothing leaving it all to HIM ! of course it means to totally ignore many other scriptures that admonish to 'GOOD WORKS OF GOD always to be done. 

Did Jesus/Yashua rest on the sabbath ? He was fully engaged on DOING GOOD....whether physical or spiritual. Joh 5v17. 

If any man is IN CHRIST  he will be AS Christ and not do anything different....just as a human Embryo/Fetus IN a mother CAN NOT exist independently ....where the mother goes IT goes. So when Jesus goes to assembly on sabbath you being IN HIM will also be present.....and NOT assemble on another day without Him....neither as an unborn Fetus (or even as a child) will you take your mother when and where you want to go. Can you see where the carnal natural man has his own situation completely 'back to front ??? he thinks he is already 'born again' and decides for himself what he does WHILE STILL IN CHRIST ? it's an impossible unworkable deceptive situation brought into GOD's Church by UNGODLY MEN,

more to say on this to those who want to hear spiritual Truth based on literal human examples 1Cor 15v46.

we can talk about the Commandments another time.

 

Paul described those who get all carried away with Sabbath days , lawful eating, etc as “ weak Christians”.If one gets satisfaction from obsessing about such things , good for you......just don’t try to convince others that your weakness is a virtue.

[Justin Adams]

12 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

Paul described those who get all carried away with Sabbath days , lawful eating, etc as “ weak Christians”.If one gets satisfaction from obsessing about such things , good for you......just don’t try to convince others that your weakness is a virtue.

Perhaps if you studied scriptural history you would see that Saul is warning against the pagan 'sabbaths' and the forbidding of food and marriage by the many sects that were trying to pervert the early Christians. Nothing at all to do with God's Sabbath given BEFORE sin and reiterated countless times in the Tanach.

The apostles taught on the Sabbath and they used the Tanach for their students.

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

To be more precise ......you do not want a true discussion....you want a ONE-SIDED discussion....not a very good way to learn things......isn’t that the reason we are all here?

[Justin Adams]

2 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

To be more precise ......you do not want a true discussion....you want a ONE-SIDED discussion....not a very good way to learn things......isn’t that the reason we are all here?

Perhaps the main reason we are all here is to be a solid witness to those that do not believe. Maybe we should seek to support each other and show the world what it means to carry one another's burdens.

We have an account of Noah being a little indiscreet. His two humble sons did not proclaim his situation but covered him. The other son was not this way inclined and wanted to uncover his father's situation.

Do we want to uncover our brother's and sister's errors or indiscretions?

Let God be true and every man a liar.

[Blood Bought 1953]

4 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Perhaps the main reason we are all here is to be a solid witness to those that do not believe. Maybe we should seek to support each other and show the world what it means to carry one another's burdens.

We have an account of Noah being a little indiscreet. His two humble sons did not proclaim his situation but covered him. The other son was not this way inclined and wanted to uncover his father's situation.

Do we want to uncover our brother's and sister's errors or indiscretions?

Let God be true and every man a liar.

 

“Those that do not believe” might be fewer in number if they understood what real Christianity is.It is not Judaism where rule- keeping is paramount .Christianity is all about Grace.Religionists are concerned with “do do this and don’t  do that”.Christianity is not a religion .Non-Believers are entitled to know that.I’m all for being “solid”- unision is important, but when truthful doctrine is threatened,unity is no longer the priority

[discipler777]

On 1/12/2018 at 7:57 PM, listener24 said:

So I sincerely don't know what someone should do to "keep the Sabbath", after reading every single Jesus' word in the Gospel, I don't find even a clue in His words.

.

At GENESIS.1 & 2, circa 6000BC, God created the earth-system in 6 days, rested on the 7th day, sanctified the 7th day and deemed His Creation as good.

At EXODUS.20, circa 1500BC, God made the "resting on the 7th day" into Law as the Sabbath law for the Jews = they were required to rest from doing any work from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset. Hence, the beginning of the Jewish tradition of counting days in a week of 7 days which was later adopted by the Holy Roman Empire in the 4th century AD and thereafter by the rest of the civilized world.

Common sense would tell us that emergency relief work during natural disasters or seeking refuge during war could be done during the Sabbath-rest day which was what King David and Jesus Christ had done. Jesus Christ, the Lord of the Sabbath, and His apostles were everyday, including the Sabbath-rest day, doing the "emergency relief" work of preaching and saving people from the spiritual disaster of hell or eternal damnation. "There is an exception to every rule".

When the mostly lawless Gentiles were brought into the sheepfold of early Jewish Christians, God exempted the Gentile Christians from any of His laws/commandments which proved a burden to them, eg laws on circumcision and clean/kosher foods(ACTS.15:24-29 & 21:20-25). They were still required to keep laws/commandments which were not a burden, eg morality laws.

When the dominant European-West-Asian Roman Empire under Emperor Constantine became Christian in the 4th century AD, the early Christians adopted the Roman rest day of Sunday as their Sabbath-rest day. They also adopted the Roman calendar, ie they abandoned the Jewish Sabbath-rest day and Jewish calendar. Today, most of the world, except Muslim countries and Israel, have adopted the Roman rest-day on Sunday and the Roman calendar.

If Christians have to live in a Muslim country, then they should follow the local "Sabbath-rest day" which is Friday, ie rest on Friday instead of Sunday Church.

Today, some Christians have to do shift-work, eg police/fire officers, doctors and nurses, which schedules their one rest-day per week on any day of the week.

In short, it is good for Christians to keep the Sabbath-rest day law/commandment because it is healthy for the body which is the temple of God but it can be on any day of the week.(ROMANS.7:7 & 12) Usually, it is on Sunday Church. OTOH, the Christian work of saving souls from eternal hell can be done on any day of the week, including the Sabbath-rest day.

[Retrobyter]

On 11/5/2018 at 1:20 AM, Betha said:

I'll just focus on your first highlight HE (JESUS) is our sabbath rest

from that people ASSUME they themselves must rest and do nothing leaving it all to HIM ! of course it means to totally ignore many other scriptures that admonish to 'GOOD WORKS OF GOD always to be done. 

Did Jesus/Yashua rest on the sabbath ? He was fully engaged on DOING GOOD....whether physical or spiritual. Joh 5v17. 

If any man is IN CHRIST  he will be AS Christ and not do anything different....just as a human Embryo/Fetus IN a mother CAN NOT exist independently ....where the mother goes IT goes. So when Jesus goes to assembly on sabbath you being IN HIM will also be present.....and NOT assemble on another day without Him....neither as an unborn Fetus (or even as a child) will you take your mother when and where you want to go. Can you see where the carnal natural man has his own situation completely 'back to front ??? he thinks he is already 'born again' and decides for himself what he does WHILE STILL IN CHRIST ? it's an impossible unworkable deceptive situation brought into GOD's Church by UNGODLY MEN,

more to say on this to those who want to hear spiritual Truth based on literal human examples 1Cor 15v46.

we can talk about the Commandments another time.

Shabbat shalom, Betha.

That's the wrong kind of "rest." A shabbat-rest (which is redundant) has to do with a VACATION DAY. It's not expecting God to do it all; it's resting WITH God and enjoying His company for at least one day out of the seven! A wealthy king reigning in peace, such as Shlomoh haMelekh ("King Solomon") was, should have MORE time to spend with God!

Look at Hebrews 4:

Hebrews 4:1-16 (KJV)

1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David,

"To day, after so long a time;" as it is said, "To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts."

8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.     9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Yeshua` ENJOYED His time with His Father! You'll find Him praying often! He would WILLINGLY keep the Shabbat, not out of obligation, but out of LOVE FOR HIS DADDY! He worked out of need on the Shabbat, but only as His Father prompted Him to work! He did nothing without His Father's permission and demonstrated His Father's endorsement in the miracles He performed! As He said, He only worked "to pull some pathetic creature from the ditch or slimy pit in which it was stuck!" That's similar to how He saw His fellow Jews stuck in their pathetic predicaments! If they had a shriveled-up arm and He had God's power to do something about it (and He did), He owed it to His FATHER to help that person out! And, so, under God's permission, He performed miracles of mercy.

So, yes, Yeshua` honored the Shabbat and kept it. Remember, too, that honoring the Shabbat came first as a commandment to ADAM! And, ALL humanity in those days knew of a 7-day week! They were ALL anniversaries of that first Week of Creation and Rest. If factions of human society (like the Greeks or Romans, MUCH later in time) devolved into thinking of different ways to measure time, that was on THEM! But, through Adam and then through Noach ("Noah"), ALL humanity had a seven-day week, six days for work and a day of Rest or a Shabbat ("sabbath").