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What does it mean to "keep the Sabbath"? (Read question's description)


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14 hours ago, choir loft said:

READ THE BIBLE.

Beginning with Genesis.  

You'll learn much that you do not now know.   You'll learn a lot that Protestant Christians generally are ignorant of or who reject anything smelling of Jew.  Believe me when I say the Bible, any Bible, is Jewish from beginning to end.   You cannot begin to get a clue as to what its saying implying or guaranteeing unless you understand where the Jew is coming from.....

Only 2 books in the Bible weren't written by a Jew; gospel of Luke and the book of Acts (also written by Luke).  

ALL THE REST of the Bible was written by Jews about Jews and for Jews (especially a certain Jew named Jesus).  

Believe it or not Jesus (Yeshuah is His true Hebrew name) was and continues to be a Jew.   His full name can be presented as Yeshuah ha-mashiach (Jesus Messiah/Christ).  Unless you try to understand Jewish thinking you absolutely can NOT understand God's Word.   The unique position of the Jew is as the oracle of God.   Jews have been chosen to reveal God's will and nature and Son to the whole world.   Gentiles try it and get it messed up.  Why?  Because they aren't Jewish and because they reject Jewish culture.  Trying to understand the Jew is like trying to grasp the wind in your hand or trying to understand a woman.   It is difficult, but one must try if one is to live with God (a Jew).

In Hebrew parlance the collection, the entire Old Covenant, is called the Tanakh.   The books are arranged in a slightly different order, but they're all there.   The Tanakh is unofficially grouped into three categories; the Law the Prophets and the Writings.  

The Law is the first five books of the Bible - anybody's Bible; Jewish, Catholic or Protestant.  The Law is generally known as Torah among Jews.  Its also called the Pentateuch in Christendom.

The Prophets group consists of both major and minor prophets - everything from Daniel and Ezekiel to the single chapter book of Obadiah.

The Writings groups consists of historic information poetry and pithy one liners such as 1 Chronicles, 2 Chronicles, 1 Kings, 2 Kings, Psalms, Proverbs, Song of Solomon, etc.

In the gospels Jesus frequently referred to the Law and the Prophets.  If you don't know those books and haven't read them you absolutely can NOT understand what Jesus is talking about.  You can guess, but its a good chance you'll guess wrong.  

Christians pompously state they have all the answers - unfortunately they don't have a clue about what the question might be.  

Attention must be paid to the Tanakh and its organization....

SHABBAT

Let's return to your question about the sabbath or shabbat as it is called in Hebrew.   There are very specific reasons for its definition in terms of days and hours of observation.  Shabbat begins at sundown on Friday and extends to sundown on Saturday.  It DOES matter when shabbat is observed.  The primary reason is because God said so in the Law.  Do you respect God?  Do you try to do what He says?  If so then you need to know the Law and respect it because the Law is of God.

Gentiles, who don't respect the Law anyway, arrogantly state that observation of shabbat can be any day.  It cannot be any day!  It certainly cannot be equated to Christian observation of one hour only on Sunday morning (perhaps another hour Sunday evening).  Shabbat is a full day from Friday night to Saturday night.  

How many Christians do you know that observe an entire day from sundown to sundown for rest and prayer?   Or do they go to church on Sunday (with the ever dwindling crowd) and then head to the beach or the mall or the sports stadium or the TV sports coverage that afternoon?  Such activities do NOT respect either Law or sabbath.  Gentiles always play fast and loose with God's Law and always excuse their ignorance with self-will and denial of what is required of them.  

Finally it should be observed that in America at least the NFL, not God, owns Sunday.   

Back to the Bible, the prophets based many of their predictions on timing.  The timing of their predictions is usually connected to shabbat.  If a pompous gentile assumes shabbat can be any other day or any other hour, then all attempts at interpreting prophetic utterances fall apart.   Timing is everything from stand up comedy to poetry to interpretation of Biblical principles.  God is all about timing.  If you don't attempt to read the Bible - all of it - you will absolutely have no idea what's going on - or when.

PENTACOST

For instance, gentiles make a big deal about Pentacost.  Acts 10:44 describes the time when the Holy Spirit fell upon a group of new believers.  It happened during Pentacost.  An entire Protestant movement has been based upon spiritual blessings of the sort described in the book of Acts.   They base everything they know, which is precious little, on a spiritual experience.  All the while they have NO IDEA where Pentacost came from or what it's about in the first place.  Gentile believers across the land reject the Old Covenant - reject the Law.  They falsely claim that the Law has been destroyed or deleted or somehow abolished by Jesus' death on the cross.  It has not.

"I did not come to abolish the Law.  I came to fulfill it." - Jesus as quoted by Matthew 5:17

No one can be saved without the Law.  If you do not know the Law or its purpose you cannot understand what happened on Pentacost in Acts 10.  If the Law has been abolished, then Pentacost is a lie - because Pentacost is based on the Law.

What is Pentacost?  Does the reader know?  Pentacost is the gentile name for an ancient Jewish holiday called Shavuot.  What is shavuot?   Shavuot is the Jewish festival that observes the time when God gave the Law to Moses upon Mt. Sinai.   Get it?  Shavuot recognizes giving the Law, while Pentacost recognizes giving the Holy Spirit WHICH ENABLES ONE TO LIVE BY THE LAW.   Its not about a spiritual high.  Its about living a life pleasing to God and man at the same time.   Its about enabling Jew and gentile to live by faith - in hope and enduring confidence.  IT'S ABOUT TIMING.

READ THE BIBLE.

Read all of it from beginning to end.  You'll learn a lot about human nature as well as the revealed will of God when you do.  Make no mistake about God's Word - read it. 

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

 

 

Ive read enough of the Bible to know that as a Member of the Body of Christ, to be concerned with festivals, feasts , and Sabbaths is to be a “ weak” Christian.If one chooses to worry about things that mean nothing in this Age of Grace, have at it.We are  not under Law, we are under Grace.The Law has served its purpose in my life.Its purpose is to “ shut your mouth”—— it was given to show you cannot keep it.It should take you by the hand and lead you to the Savior.Keeping the Law is good if you realize it is there to bless you— it’s God’s instruction manual for the human race that God created.Just don’t fall into the damnable belief that your puny ability to keep ALL of it will justify you on Judgement Day.Our Justification for Salvation is faith in the Blood Of Jesus.Add anything to that and the Cross is of no benefit to you.Strong Christians are to put up with weak ones— we don’t let them run the Church.

 

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10 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

Ive read enough of the Bible to know that as a Member of the Body of Christ, to be concerned with festivals, feasts , and Sabbaths is to be a “ weak” Christian.If one chooses to worry about things that mean nothing in this Age of Grace, have at it.We are  not under Law, we are under Grace.The Law has served its purpose in my life.Its purpose is to “ shut your mouth”—— it was given to show you cannot keep it.It should take you by the hand and lead you to the Savior.Keeping the Law is good if you realize it is there to bless you— it’s God’s instruction manual for the human race that God created.Just don’t fall into the damnable belief that your puny ability to keep ALL of it will justify you on Judgement Day.Our Justification for Salvation is faith in the Blood Of Jesus.Add anything to that and the Cross is of no benefit to you.Strong Christians are to put up with weak ones— we don’t let them run the Church.

 

You haven't read enough of God's Word.  Not enough at all.

"The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it. It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law." - JESUS as quoted by Luke 16:16-18 (*)

and again in the book of Joshua we are all encouraged to;

This book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it; for then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have success.
- Joshua 1:8

What is God (JESUS) saying?  Are you asserting HE doesn't know what HE is talking about?  Certainly not.  You speak according to church doctrine - one of the common doctrines of demons being promulgated today. You speak to the only truth you've been taught - which is a lie of the devil.  Read the Bible and find truth there - not in church hypocrisy.   

Why are people leaving the church by the millions?  According to PEW and Gallup statistics, regular church attendance (measured as one service a month) fell in 2010 to 40% of 1948 levels.  It is projected to fall to 10% by 2050 if current trends continue.  Why?  Because the church has gone soft on spiritual responsibility.  None preach repentance.  All preach destruction of the Law.

The church has embraced the doctrines of the prince of lawlessness.

Consider that if the Law is of no effect then I am within my rights to kill you, rape your wife, steal your possessions, burn your house to the ground and blame you for it all.  That's more like a middle eastern philosophy than the Law of God - than the kindness of Christ shown to man.   Without the Law NO ONE can be saved.

If there is no Law, then Jesus died in vain upon the cross.  Without repentance, measured by the Law, inspired by the Law and enabled by the Law no one can rightly bow before the Son of God and obtain forgiveness.   Without the Law there can be no forgiveness and no grace because if there is no Law then there is no salvation at all.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN.

Yet churches all across the land teach spiritual irresponsibility in the name of grace - all the while not understanding at all the mechanism of it.  After a long sermon on grace I once heard a Baptist preacher say, "go out an sin this week that grace may abound."  If I believed that lie I would have pulled out a gun and shot him on the spot.  God NEVER honors lawlessness, but that is exactly what is being encouraged by churches that teach it, encourage it, and deny the Word of God that honors it.  

"The parsons will dig their own graves. They will betray their God to us. They will betray anything for the sake of their miserable jobs and incomes. Protestant clergy don't believe in anything except their well-being and office". - Adolph Hitler

"Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God." - James 4:4 

Now here is a great hypocrisy.  The church today is very busy swallowing the poison of Replacement Theology, which suggests the church has replaced Israel somehow.  Fine.  If true, then all that once applied to Israel may now apply to the church.  Again if true even the curses of denying the Law will fall upon the church.

The days of punishment are coming, the days of reckoning are at hand. Let Israel know this. Because your sins are so many and your hostility so great, the prophet is considered a fool, the inspired person a maniac. - Hosea 9:7

The church cannot claim to be Israel's successor and deny the Law at the same time.  If a successor in spirit and in truth, then the church is subject to all the blessings and curses of the Law.  Yet lawlessness, not righteousness reigns supreme in the church today, for it claims the blessings and denys the responsibility.

Which is it? 

Law or lawlessness?  Truth or lies.  Read the Bible.  Not ONCE does it say the Law doesn't apply.  It is most emphatic that the Law applies to all - Jew and gentile alike.  No one can come to God without it.   Only satan claims otherwise.

Seek the Kingdom of God, dear reader, for you will find blessings and truth and LAW when you do.   

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

(*)שְׁמַע יִשְׂרָאֵל יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ יְהוָה אֶחָֽד

The above is a Hebrew prayer called the schema. (pronounced sh-MA)  In English it says; Hear O Israel the Lord our God.  The Lord is One.

Notice the punctuation accompanying the letters.  They are called (in English) jots and tittles.  The correct translation of Luke 16:16-18 is "jots and tittles" instead of "least stroke of a pen".  The latter is substituted because gentiles have no idea what jots and tittles are.  Neither do they understand the Law and how it applies to them - so they deny it altogether. BUT WHEN Jesus said jots and tittles of the Law would NOT pass away He's speaking to the smallest punctuation mark.   Gentiles would throw the whole thing out - IN VIOLATION OF GOD'S WILL.

Edited by choir loft
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57 minutes ago, naominash said:

I don't think it's God's heart to torture his ransomed people with being unsure how to honor the Sabbath. 

Even though Scripture talks about it--- if it we're so obvious about how to honor it, I doubt there'd be centuries of arguments about how to honor it.

 

However, I think that resting in Father's Love and Providence, The Son's finished work, and being Led by the Holy Spirit won't steer you wrong.

You've got this! Use discernment and don't let people steal your joy in Christ.

The "centuries of arguments" you speak of rest firmly in anti-semitism- hatred of Jews.  

It has nothing at all to do with truthful study of God's Word.  TO THIS DAY, if a law or cultural observation smells of Jew - the church throws it out!  In times past it persecuted those that upheld it and burned at the stake those who preserved their integrity.  It's all about hating Jews.  It has nothing to do with Sunday (which is owned and licensed by the NFL, not God).  

Read the Bible, principally the book of Acts and the gospels.

The early church was composed of Jewish believers in Christ.  When gentiles became believers they attended synagogue.  Read the Bible.  It is estimated that nearly 30% of Jews in Jesus' time became believers.   The church denies it.

As time passed, and not a lot of time by the way, gentile paganism penetrated church doctrine and church observance.(*)  Jews were restricted from attending worship and membership unless they denied their culture.  What was there to deny?  They were to deny being a Jew - which the church STILL requires.  Let a Jew sit among the congregation on Sunday morning and he will either be deliberately ignored or subject to a kind of religious paternalism.  (Wear a yamaka to church next time and see what happens.)

One of the chief ways the church abused its authority against the Jew and God's Word was to change the day of rest and prayer from Saturday to Sunday.  

There is absolutely NOTHING in the Bible to justify it, nothing at all.  

The Bible states that shabbat, or sabbath as the gentiles call it, is from sundown Friday until sundown Saturday.  

All prophecy and complicated observances depend upon this calculation of days and times.   Gentiles who reject the Bible would say it matters not - and go forward with their hypocrisy and pretend to know all the answers to life's dilemmas even as they reject the questions.

The issue of which day to observe worship is based upon hate of Jews and dismissal of God's Word as presented in the Law.

It has nothing at all to do with altruistic motivations or the beauty of creation.  It has everything to do with hating God's people and rejecting God's Law.

This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.  - Jesus as quoted by John 3:19

Truth is quenched when lies and hypocrisy are justified by those who prefer doctrines of demons.

Finally, it should be firmly understood that the guidance of the Holy Spirit will NEVER contradict God's Word.  Never!  

If the reader seeks Holy Spirit guidance, then the reader will ultimately be drawn to the Bible and read therein - that shabbat is Saturday.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

(*) Compare a Roman Catholic high mass on NFL game day with a Jewish service on shabbat.  BIG difference and a LOT of obvious paganism by the church.  How many times do you have to crucify Christ to be saved?  Every day if Catholic doctrine is to be observed.  Catholics worship a helpless dead guy on a stick (has Christ risen in power or has He not?).  Jews honor God's Law - the Torah.  Which act is paganism and which act honors God?  

Edited by choir loft
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42 minutes ago, naominash said:

I honestly didn't know.

I wonder what I should do then, as a gentile believer?

Maybe listen and just rest today. Lol, good cause I'm just in my room resting right now. 

I'll still go to church tomorrow. But maybe today should just be a Sabbath rest for me.

 

I believe you when you say there's anti-Semitism in the church.

 

I am a Messianic Jew.

I am a believer that Yeshuah Ha-Mashiach (Jesus Messiah/Christ as He is called in Hebrew) is the Son of God and that He died upon the cross for my sins and that He rose again in power and majesty.

I believe Yeshuah loves us Jew and gentile alike and that He offers His blessings and kindness and guidance to all who will follow Him.

My son and his wife are also Messianic Jews.

Find a Messianic Synagogue near you and attend a Saturday service.  You will discover that Messianics, unlike Christians, welcome everyone into their fellowship. There is an unusual mix of folk that you will not find in most Protestant churches.   It doesn't matter if they were Baptist or Episcopalian or Catholic or non-believer.   All kinds of people wander into our services and find a home in the arms of Christ as well as meaning and comfort in the structure of God's Law.

Finally it can be pointed out that there are 613 laws described in Torah.  Not all are required and not all are being followed even by the Hasidim - ultra orthodox Jews.  The reasons are rather elaborate and complex and I do not pretend to understand all of them.

If I refrain from eating a cheese burger, (according to St. Paul), I do so out of respect for a brother or sister not because there is something wrong about it.   (On the other hand there are certain restaurants in my city I would not recommend to a weak stomach.)   Messianic Judaism is about respecting God's Word - all of it - as well as my neighbor who sits next to me in service and needs prayer (as do we all from time to time).

Baruch Hashem Yeshuah

(Praise the Name of Jesus)

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

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Speaking of the Sabbath - Does that include people who think about many religions? Jews and Christians? What if we worked together to understand the Bible?

Can you please inform me about The Book of Revelation? Here are my questions.

 

What do you know about the book in General?

Who are these characters? What are their roles? 

- Second Coming Messiah

- Anti Christ

-False Prophet

-Anti Christ Spirit

-Harlot Spirit

-Beast Spirit

-Four Beasts

-Four Hoursemen

-Angels

-Holy Spirits

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12 hours ago, choir loft said:

You haven't read enough of God's Word.  Not enough at all.

"The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it. It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law." - JESUS as quoted by Luke 16:16-18 (*)

and again in the book of Joshua we are all encouraged to;

This book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it; for then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have success.
- Joshua 1:8

What is God (JESUS) saying?  Are you asserting HE doesn't know what HE is talking about?  Certainly not.  You speak according to church doctrine - one of the common doctrines of demons being promulgated today. You speak to the only truth you've been taught - which is a lie of the devil.  Read the Bible and find truth there - not in church hypocrisy.   

Why are people leaving the church by the millions?  According to PEW and Gallup statistics, regular church attendance (measured as one service a month) fell in 2010 to 40% of 1948 levels.  It is projected to fall to 10% by 2050 if current trends continue.  Why?  Because the church has gone soft on spiritual responsibility.  None preach repentance.  All preach destruction of the Law.

The church has embraced the doctrines of the prince of lawlessness.

Consider that if the Law is of no effect then I am within my rights to kill you, rape your wife, steal your possessions, burn your house to the ground and blame you for it all.  That's more like a middle eastern philosophy than the Law of God - than the kindness of Christ shown to man.   Without the Law NO ONE can be saved.

If there is no Law, then Jesus died in vain upon the cross.  Without repentance, measured by the Law, inspired by the Law and enabled by the Law no one can rightly bow before the Son of God and obtain forgiveness.   Without the Law there can be no forgiveness and no grace because if there is no Law then there is no salvation at all.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN.

Yet churches all across the land teach spiritual irresponsibility in the name of grace - all the while not understanding at all the mechanism of it.  After a long sermon on grace I once heard a Baptist preacher say, "go out an sin this week that grace may abound."  If I believed that lie I would have pulled out a gun and shot him on the spot.  God NEVER honors lawlessness, but that is exactly what is being encouraged by churches that teach it, encourage it, and deny the Word of God that honors it.  

"The parsons will dig their own graves. They will betray their God to us. They will betray anything for the sake of their miserable jobs and incomes. Protestant clergy don't believe in anything except their well-being and office". - Adolph Hitler

"Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God." - James 4:4 

Now here is a great hypocrisy.  The church today is very busy swallowing the poison of Replacement Theology, which suggests the church has replaced Israel somehow.  Fine.  If true, then all that once applied to Israel may now apply to the church.  Again if true even the curses of denying the Law will fall upon the church.

The days of punishment are coming, the days of reckoning are at hand. Let Israel know this. Because your sins are so many and your hostility so great, the prophet is considered a fool, the inspired person a maniac. - Hosea 9:7

The church cannot claim to be Israel's successor and deny the Law at the same time.  If a successor in spirit and in truth, then the church is subject to all the blessings and curses of the Law.  Yet lawlessness, not righteousness reigns supreme in the church today, for it claims the blessings and denys the responsibility.

Which is it? 

Law or lawlessness?  Truth or lies.  Read the Bible.  Not ONCE does it say the Law doesn't apply.  It is most emphatic that the Law applies to all - Jew and gentile alike.  No one can come to God without it.   Only satan claims otherwise.

Seek the Kingdom of God, dear reader, for you will find blessings and truth and LAW when you do.   

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

(*)שְׁמַע יִשְׂרָאֵל יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ יְהוָה אֶחָֽד

The above is a Hebrew prayer called the schema. (pronounced sh-MA)  In English it says; Hear O Israel the Lord our God.  The Lord is One.

Notice the punctuation accompanying the letters.  They are called (in English) jots and tittles.  The correct translation of Luke 16:16-18 is "jots and tittles" instead of "least stroke of a pen".  The latter is substituted because gentiles have no idea what jots and tittles are.  Neither do they understand the Law and how it applies to them - so they deny it altogether. BUT WHEN Jesus said jots and tittles of the Law would NOT pass away He's speaking to the smallest punctuation mark.   Gentiles would throw the whole thing out - IN VIOLATION OF GOD'S WILL.

 

Law or lawlessness?  Truth or lies.  Read the Bible.  Not ONCE does it say the Law doesn't apply.  It is most emphatic that the Law applies to all - Jew and gentile alike.  No one can come to God without it.   Only satan claims otherwise.

 

The true choice is not between Law and lawlessness .It is between Law and Grace.Everyone who was ever saved was saved by Grace, yet in your use of hundreds of words, the word “  Grace” does not appear.I have noted that is the hallmark of most posts by Legalists.

I have read the Bible many times.That counts for nothing if you come away from your readings thinking that keeping the Law is God’s plan for Salvation.You have missed the entire point of God’s Word....which is to exalt His Son...not our pitiful attempts to obey the Commands of the Law which both Paul and Peter admitted they could not keep.

 “ Knowing That a man is NOT justified by the LAW but by the FAITH in Jesus Christ,so that we may be justified by the faith of Christ, and NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW: for by the works of the Law no man will be justified” How could it be more clear?

Make no mistake- The Law is Great— no problem with a perfect Law . The problem is us. We can’t keep it.If we could keep the Law— THAT would be the reason Christ died in vain.Read it.Ask God to help you to understand it.

I try to obey God’s Laws every day.He gave them to us for our own good.But who needs it when there is something so much better than the Law ever was.Those that have come to God as lost sinners who have seen the hopelessness of trying to being “ made good enough” by their delusional thinking of keeping of an impossible system of rules , those that know that they need a Savior and every ounce of God’s Grace they can get—- have received a heart transplant.The Law fails in comparison.Of course, those that have not received this new heart do not understand it. So keep on straining to be an obedient Law-Keeper, never learn how to truly Sabbath.Obeying the Law will give you a better life and keep you out of jail perhaps. It will never justify you and it will never save you.Adding to the Gospel in 1cor15:1-4 with Law-Keeping perverts it and you are “ severed from Christ, the Cross is of no benefit to you”. Dangerous ground, wouldn’t you agree?Faith plus nothing for Salvation.

 

 

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On 3/7/2019 at 6:24 AM, Betha said:

You have a point...Jesus/Yashua is also known as 'Lord of the Sabbath' , and since He is the same yesterday, today and forever we can expect Him to also have resurrected as the same on the Sabbath as scripture says.  People confuse the Resurrection with the Assention to heaven, 2 different Events hours apart. Happy to go into detail if anyone wants to check it out...as we should if we love the Truth.

You bring up another matter (which hopefully not derail this thread)... how many times did Jesus ascend?

He obviously rose from death once. The scriptures are clear. He died once for all and rose from the grave once conquering death.

But how many times did Jesus ascend into heaven (post resurrection).

He appeared to his disciples off and on, here and there, for forty days. But he was not constantly with them during that time.

Where'd he go?

I do not subscribe at all to the Mormon doctrine that Jesus appeared to Indian people in America (around the globe) which they mistakenly call

the lost tribes of Israel. So, let's head that one off at the pass.

But I find something interesting in the meeting between Jesus and the women at the tomb he'd just risen from...

John 20:17 (AV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

I love the theology packed into this verse! And it's hard not to unpack it like a well packed steamer trunk. But I'll try.

This hearkens to one of the many messianic offices instituted in the Law of Moses.

Leviticus 23:9–14 (AV)
9 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:
11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.
12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD.
13 And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the LORD for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.
14 And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

Jesus had not yet ascended to the Father in his resurrected form to present himself before him as the firstfruits from the grave on the morrow after the sabbath.

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7 hours ago, Betha said:

Hi John, I seem to have difficulty following your post. How is it you are mixing  the Resurrection with Pentecost and also with the Ascention, and also Moses. ? All are different Events happening at different times (to my understanding). 

The Resurrection from the dead happened only ONCE - when Jesus/Yashua woke up and rose from His death-bed....NOT when He ascended to heaven to present Himself to His Father, which was indeed on a sunday fulfilling firstfruit.

Another big difference between Res and Asc is that the Res was not seen by anyone but depends on it's truth entirely on 'scripture' the Word of GOD ,as recorded in 1 Cor 15v3,4. Is that important ? I'll say, as it is not corrupted by any human reasoning , interfering with true Faith. Jesus also mentioned the blessing between 'seeing and not seeing' Joh 20v29. ...it has to do with TRUE FAITH.

It seems christians base the Resurrection on the Ascention which was SEEN by many....that is fact and not faith, contrasting Heb 11.

Also the Angel at the tomb Mk 16v6, pinpointed the exact moment of the Resurrection when he said 'you seek Jesus of Nazareth (the same Lord of the Sabbath who also died for us) HE IS RISEN, He is not here'. The Angel did not refer to the rising at the Ascention but to the event in the tomb.

I am afraid people have believed error fed to them by a mega-false church right from the start of christianity, when ungodly men infiltrated TRUE Followers (Jude).

The passage does go on to refer to counting to the feast of weeks (Pentecost) BUT... it begins with the co-holiday of the harvest (feast of bread) with Passover from whence the counting of weeks begins. THAT was the fulfillment by his resurrection and then ascent I was point out.

I also believe I was concise about Jesus resurrection NOT being the same thing as his ascension. 

Colossians 1:18 (AV)
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

 

 

Edited by JohnD
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On 3/9/2019 at 8:04 AM, choir loft said:

One of the chief ways the church abused its authority against the Jew and God's Word was to change the day of rest and prayer from Saturday to Sunday.  

There is absolutely NOTHING in the Bible to justify it, nothing at all.  

True.

On 3/8/2019 at 6:51 AM, choir loft said:

No one can be saved without the Law.

False.

First of all, the Law was only given for one single people, and for one single place:

Deut. 4:5“Surely I have taught you [Israel] statutes and judgments, just as the LORD my God commanded me, that you should act according to them in the land which you go to possess. 40 “You shall therefore keep His statutes and His commandments which I command you today... in the land which the LORD your God is giving you for all time.” Also 5:31, 6:1, 12:1

The Law required all adult males to gather together three times yearly in the chosen place. That statute has always been impossible to keep for anyone living outside of the land of Israel, and it was hard enough for those in the farthest corners of that land. Therefore the nations could never be expected to keep the Law, both of the required gatherings and of the required sacrifices. God required no such thing, but apparently you do.

What did Paul say about the Law?

Galatians 3:24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

4:9 ...how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? ...22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. ... 28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.” 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free. 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.

And again, keeping the Law is irrelevant to whether or not one should observe the Sabbath, which God instituted  some 2500 years before the Law of Moses.

 

 

Edited by WilliamL
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On 3/8/2019 at 11:09 AM, simplejeff said:

AMEN ! Wonderful !   Hey!?

That is what Yahweh did First, and that also Jesus always does !  And His messengers.   Honors His Father, His Word,  His Plan and His Purpose.

Who <tried> to change it for everyone ? 

Jesus' enemy, of course,  AS WRITTEN.

Amen!

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