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Blood Bought 1953

Can We Really Live As We Please?

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13 hours ago, Sam Smith said:

 

I only recently ran across this gem attributed to St. Augustine, “ Love God, And live as you please” was this Wisdom or a statement straight from Hell?

Unless we have the context in where Augustine said this statement it is really hard to give a sure answer. But looking at it at face value if we love God we most likely are also saved (hard to love God when we don't have the Holy Spirit in us) and thus have the freedom to live for the Lord. I Peter 2:16 "Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God's slaves." Being born again means that we are free from the power that sin had over us and have freedom to choose what is right and have the power to live lives pleasing to him. So at face value no we cannot do just whatever we want but we can live for the Lord with freedom to do so.

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This quote is contained in Augustine's 7th Homily on I John.   Here's a link at CCEL to a translation of Augustine's work that this is taken from.  Note that this older translation into English was done in the 19th century.   http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf107.pdf    You will find this quote on page 866.  It is part of his comments on I John 4:4-12.  Anyone interested could read the entire homily (or indeed all 10 homilies on I John) to get the context.  Here is the paragraph in which the quote is contained.  This should give a sense of what he meant.  This is the 8th paragraph of 11 paragraphs in this particular homily (or sermon or commentary if you will).

8. This we have said in the case where the things done are similar. In the case where they are diverse, we find a man by charity made fierce; and by iniquity made winningly gentle. A father beats a boy, and a boy-stealer caresses. If thou name the two things, blows and caresses, who would not choose the caresses, and decline the blows? If thou mark the persons, it is charity that beats, iniquity that caresses. See what we are insisting upon; that the deeds of men are only discerned by the root of charity. For many things may be done that have a good appearance, and yet proceed not from the root of charity. For thorns also have flowers: some actions truly seem rough, seem savage; howbeit they are done for discip- line at the bidding of charity. Once for all, then, a short precept is given thee: Love, and do what thou wilt: whether thou hold thy peace, through love hold thy peace; whether thou cry out, through love cry out; whether thou correct, through love correct; whether thou spare, through love do thou spare: let the root of love be within, of this root can nothing spring but what is good.

I skimmed his homily.  Overall, he was talking about how our motives in doing things was critical.

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19 hours ago, Sam Smith said:

“ Love God, And live as you please”

I believe you can love people, and help them and then live as you please, but you should also try not to hurt anyone.

 

Matthew chapter 25 verses 31-46
When the Son of Man comes" in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. he will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me. then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and got visit you? The King will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me. Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.They also will answer, Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you? He will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me. Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

 

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Well, if you love God it's impossible to live as you please, because oftentimes His will and commands require and involve doing things we don't want to do; and love for others often requires self sacrifice. 

Christ did not please Himself. (Romans 15:1-3) He lived to please God and to serve others. (Matthew 20:26-28)

He suffered doing the Father's will.

Then He said to them, "My soul is very sorrowful, even to death; remain here and watch with Me." And going a little farther He fell on His face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will but as You will." (Matthew 26:38,39)

And He said: "If anyone would come after Me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow Me." (Luke 9:23)

And the desires of the sinful nature are against those of the Holy Spirit. (Galatians 5:17) We have to choose to put the one to death and choose the other to keep in step with Jesus. And that's not always something we want to do, unfortunately, because of that very sinful nature. Sometimes we have to pray to ask God to give us the desire and the power to do it---to overcome some evil thought, attitude or desire.

Living "as we please" is the opposite of what the New Testament teaches: It's all about self-denial and self-sacrifice, and putting God and others before oneself, and suffering for righteousness' sake. I don't know anything about Augustine, so I don't know what he meant by that quote, but I would assume he knew this. Perhaps he meant that if you love God, you will be pleased to do what pleases Him, so "living as you please" will be doing whatever is pleasing to God. But because of our sinful nature, none of us wants to do what pleases God all the time; so that would be unrealistic thinking on Augustine's part.

 

 

 

 

Edited by LightShinesInTheDarkness
Read the quote in context!

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On 1/13/2018 at 10:01 AM, GandalfTheWise said:

This quote is contained in Augustine's 7th Homily on I John.   Here's a link at CCEL to a translation of Augustine's work that this is taken from.  Note that this older translation into English was done in the 19th century.   http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf107.pdf    You will find this quote on page 866.  It is part of his comments on I John 4:4-12.  Anyone interested could read the entire homily (or indeed all 10 homilies on I John) to get the context.  Here is the paragraph in which the quote is contained.  This should give a sense of what he meant.  This is the 8th paragraph of 11 paragraphs in this particular homily (or sermon or commentary if you will).

8. This we have said in the case where the things done are similar. In the case where they are diverse, we find a man by charity made fierce; and by iniquity made winningly gentle. A father beats a boy, and a boy-stealer caresses. If thou name the two things, blows and caresses, who would not choose the caresses, and decline the blows? If thou mark the persons, it is charity that beats, iniquity that caresses. See what we are insisting upon; that the deeds of men are only discerned by the root of charity. For many things may be done that have a good appearance, and yet proceed not from the root of charity. For thorns also have flowers: some actions truly seem rough, seem savage; howbeit they are done for discip- line at the bidding of charity. Once for all, then, a short precept is given thee: Love, and do what thou wilt: whether thou hold thy peace, through love hold thy peace; whether thou cry out, through love cry out; whether thou correct, through love correct; whether thou spare, through love do thou spare: let the root of love be within, of this root can nothing spring but what is good.

I skimmed his homily.  Overall, he was talking about how our motives in doing things was critical.

Well that puts the quote in context. I like that very much. Very wise.

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On 1/12/2018 at 7:33 PM, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

I only recently ran across this gem attributed to St. Augustine, “ Love God, And live as you please” was this Wisdom or a statement straight from Hell?

I ran across an atheist once who told me his hobby was to troll Christian websites while pretending to be Christian. He was an alcoholic you see, and he created a signature so as to mock those of faith while also touting his favorite self-destructive elixir. Beer. Or, dark ale to be precise. He had a signature featuring a lot of different brands in bottles. And beneath the array he printed, SIN BOLDLY!  No moderators ever made him remove that. A year after we met I found he'd passed on from, you guessed it, liver cancer. 

That St.Augustine quote reminded me of John and how he'd have defended his choice of signature using early church fathers had he known of them. 

I think we do live as we please in part in this world and yet being we're guided to all truth by the indwelling spirit of God, we also live well aware of the righteous path we are to take in any given situation. We are not perfect and we will from time to time be led to respond as the world responds. As in, someone acts the callous butt and having had enough we respond and tell them off. 

Perhaps though one way to look at that is it is God's leading us to communicate to someone in a language they understand. And perhaps that response will lead them to better themselves. 

God knows all there is to know from beginning to end. All we can do, I believe, is our best and let God decide if it is good enough. 

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On 1/12/2018 at 6:33 PM, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

I only recently ran across this gem attributed to St. Augustine, “ Love God, And live as you please” was this Wisdom or a statement straight from Hell?

 

As true believers, abiding in Christ, we are a new creature. We have been crucified with Christ. But now, we live, but not us, because Christ liveth in us. All things have passed away, all things become new. We now have the mind of Christ. It should have been evident Augustine was taking it for granted he was talking to mature believers. We can do nothing without abiding in Christ. If you abide, then anything you do can bear fruit. (in the spirit, not the flesh-obviously)

Joh_14:15  If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Rom 6:7  For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8  Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Gary Lee said:

 

As true believers, abiding in Christ, we are a new creature. We have been crucified with Christ. But now, we live, but not us, because Christ liveth in us. All things have passed away, all things become new. We now have the mind of Christ. It should have been evident Augustine was taking it for granted he was talking to mature believers. We can do nothing without abiding in Christ. If you abide, then anything you do can bear fruit. (in the spirit, not the flesh-obviously)

Joh_14:15  If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Rom 6:7  For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8  Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

 

 

Yes, we are a new creation. Take a look at yourself 10 years ago. Are you the same person as you were then or can you see that you have grown in Christ?

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On 1/12/2018 at 6:33 PM, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

I only recently ran across this gem attributed to St. Augustine, “ Love God, And live as you please” was this Wisdom or a statement straight from Hell?

1 Corinthians 6:12 / 10:23 essentially indicates you cannot lose your salvation by sinning. Once you are truly saved you cannot lose your salvation. But that's another discussion entirely.

You will not in this and other passages by the 1st Century theologian / Law of Moses scholar the Apostle Paul that he also warns of addiction / enslavement / consequences in THIS life.

I find myself growing further away from the old mind set that going to Church every time the doors open, volunteering for all the Church business "ministries" speaking Christianese, freaking out every time someone is not on the holier than thou setting I am on at the time, and ignoring the great commission as most believers do... is NOT what we are here for. God would do himself and us a service by rather rapturing us out as we convert to faith in his Son.

God wants us to infiltrate and occupy and infest (if you will) all aspects of the world as his agents. Overtly or covertly as HE deems necessary until we are called upon to speak out stand up teach and preach Jesus Christ to a  lost and dying world and to each and every generation and each and every class and race and religion and creed and perversion / sin class of humanity until Christ returns.

Otherwise we are NOT doing what he left us here for.

Playing country club Church is not the salt and light leaching out into the dark and putrefying world, but rather putting our lamp under a bowl or a bed and casting our salt on dung heaps.

If we did this even 1/2 the time we wouldn't have the time or energy to "live as we please."

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On 1/12/2018 at 8:33 PM, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

I only recently ran across this gem attributed to St. Augustine, “ Love God, And live as you please” was this Wisdom or a statement straight from Hell?

Absolutely. Remember that Augustine never did fully abandon his pagan ways. He once said, regarding his proclivity for pretty girls, Lord give me chastity....but not yet. 

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