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What did Jesus mean by "those days should be shortened...?"


iamlamad

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17 hours ago, ScottA said:

No...I am explaining them to someone who apparently does not know the truth of it.

You are mixing the two houses (the two "folds" brought by Jesus - those under the first Adam and the old covenant, with those under the Last Adam and the new covenant), and you are attempting to explain the difference with physical and spiritual death alone. Nonetheless, Jesus did not mix the two, nor am I.

Let's look again:

1 Thes. 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

And WHO is Paul writing to?  1:Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians 

And WHO are the Thessalonians? They are GENTILE believers. 

And what did you write?

"The dead in Christ" are those whom Christ referred to as "the first who would be last." They are first in the resurrection, because Christ came as their sacrifice, they are the natural branches the house of Israel, but they died in the flesh. But they are last to receive the spirit of God (to be born again).  (Emphasis added)

If you have to wonder why we disagree with you, now you should know: it is because you write nonsense.  The church of Jesus Christ is made up mostly of Gentiles. Blindness has come upon Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles will have come in. Paul was writing to GENTILE believers and telling them not to worry about those who have died physically.

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

Paul is telling them that even though some of their fellow brethren have died physically, when Jesus comes, He will bring their Spirit with the soul WITH HIM, so they can join again with their physical body. The "Dead in Christ" then, IN CONTEXT are those who have "fallen asleep" in death: their body quit functioning. Their heart stopped beating.  So when God brings those dead and decayed bodies back up out of the earth changed into a new resurrection body - then the spirits of those people will join with their new body and they will be whole once again. This is so simple a child could follow it; yet those will letters after their name stumble.

 

 

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"No, just finished with you. You who don't use the "Quote" feature, and don't want to hear the truth. Pre... what? Oh, another 'ism from the hypocrites. Never mind.

 

Sorry your cannot see your preterism son

You have been deceived

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16 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Let's look again:

1 Thes. 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

And WHO is Paul writing to?  1:Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians 

And WHO are the Thessalonians? They are GENTILE believers. 

And what did you write?

"The dead in Christ" are those whom Christ referred to as "the first who would be last." They are first in the resurrection, because Christ came as their sacrifice, they are the natural branches the house of Israel, but they died in the flesh. But they are last to receive the spirit of God (to be born again).  (Emphasis added)

If you have to wonder why we disagree with you, now you should know: it is because you write nonsense.  The church of Jesus Christ is made up mostly of Gentiles. Blindness has come upon Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles will have come in. Paul was writing to GENTILE believers and telling them not to worry about those who have died physically.

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

Paul is telling them that even though some of their fellow brethren have died physically, when Jesus comes, He will bring their Spirit with the soul WITH HIM, so they can join again with their physical body. The "Dead in Christ" then, IN CONTEXT are those who have "fallen asleep" in death: their body quit functioning. Their heart stopped beating.  So when God brings those dead and decayed bodies back up out of the earth changed into a new resurrection body - then the spirits of those people will join with their new body and they will be whole once again. This is so simple a child could follow it; yet those will letters after their name stumble.

Your "context" is too small...

The coming of Christ, His death, burial, and resurrection is the apex of all the history of the world - bringing with Him the kingdom of heaven. Thus, your idea that the context is limited to the little local community of the Thessalonians - is the real foolishness. You (and indeed, nearly all of Christendom) are an insult to God's master plans, and have missed the forest for the tree. 

Let me set the proper stage for you:

The entire lineage of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, David, all the prophets, and all of Israel come down to one man, Jesus Christ, who is "the Last" named under the Old Covenant. His "hour" was zero hour. As He Himself said, He came for the [complete] house of Israel, the first "fold", the "chosen", the "living" - not because they were not as dead men under the curse of "once to die", but because God had chosen them for eternal life. Which was not attained by any before the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ - but after...meaning they were "dead" but saved in the death and resurrection of Christ. Hence, them being called "the dead in Christ". When Christ said "It is finished", He was referring to the fulfillment of God's promise to save Israel.

Then, comes "another fold" which Christ said He must also bring. Which are not Israel, but the gentiles. The difference then, is that after the cross and resurrection, at Pentecost God began to pour out His spirit upon all flesh as foretold by Joel the prophet and confirmed by Peter. And this was done according to Christ's promise to send the Holy Spirit, which John made clear did not come to Israel before Christ, but after, John 7:39. That after being born again of the spirit of God and made alive ("we who are alive and remain") gentile believers would, thereby be "the living in Christ." Which is not complete "until the time of the gentiles is fulfilled."

Any questions? 

Edited by ScottA
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11 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Ever heard of that unique  word: FUTURE?

It was FUTURE when written. None of your 70 week stuff, 7 year stuff or rapture stuff means anything. It is pure subjective guess-work. No matter how 'sarky' you get, you will never, ever know until it happens.

The second coming will be as Yeshua said. 'as in the days of Noah'. And that is it. A sudden unexpected occurrence. I believe His words.

Now everything people claim to be 'truth' to do with future prophesies is actually often incorrect. You can only be aware of 'truth' when it has come true. I.e. actual and provable. So claims of 'truth' in trying to foretell something is disingenuous and actually often a false claim. 

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57 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

It was FUTURE when written. None of your 70 week stuff, 7 year stuff or rapture stuff means anything. It is pure subjective guess-work. No matter how 'sarky' you get, you will never, ever know until it happens.

The second coming will be as Yeshua said. 'as in the days of Noah'. And that is it. A sudden unexpected occurrence. I believe His words.

Now everything people claim to be 'truth' to do with future prophesies is actually often incorrect. You can only be aware of 'truth' when it has come true. I.e. actual and provable. So claims of 'truth' in trying to foretell something is disingenuous and actually often a false claim. 

You do realize that you personally are included in the "you" statement above where you claim that the truth will not be known until it happens?

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1 minute ago, OneLight said:

You do realize that you personally are included in the "you" statement above where you claim that the truth will not be known until it happens?

Such it is with prophesy. Every idea cannot be the correct one. Harmonizing scriptures gives one event. The second coming that Yeshua talked about. Faith is the substance of things hoped for...

I am well aware the 'you' also refers to me. It refers to all of us. Thus we have to be careful of what we claim as 'true' and what we claim as just merely 'possible'.

I claim the truth of Yeshua because I believe in Him and not some words of prophesy that have been 'manipulated' for best selling books about the end times. I just trust in Yahweh. Simple.
I declare He is the One True God above all others and that He came in the flesh as Yeshua to sacrifice himself, be resurrected and save mankind - including me. The Nicene Creed says it quite succinctly.

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25 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Such it is with prophesy. Every idea cannot be the correct one. Harmonizing scriptures gives one event. The second coming that Yeshua talked about. Faith is the substance of things hoped for...

I am well aware the 'you' also refers to me. It refers to all of us. Thus we have to be careful of what we claim as 'true' and what we claim as just merely 'possible'.

I claim the truth of Yeshua because I believe in Him and not some words of prophesy that have been 'manipulated' for best selling books about the end times. I just trust in Yahweh. Simple.
I declare He is the One True God above all others and that He came in the flesh as Yeshua to sacrifice himself, be resurrected and save mankind - including me. The Nicene Creed says it quite succinctly.

Thank you for the clarification.  It is nice to see a brother or sister admit that they are also included in the possibility of being incorrect when it come to prophecy.  The reason why I posted what I did is because the wording you used excluded yourself, otherwise, why not use "we" instead of "you"?

Your last paragraph is similar to the "you" statement.  Can you tell me one person you are conversing with that does not believe in Him, Christ Jesus?  It seems you base your claim to truth on the fact that you do not research what others have to say about the end time.  I can understand your argument to a point as some of what is available is garbage, while others are not.  You may benefit if you discovered which is and which is not garbage,and try to see how others say the end times.  I liken my request to what happens on this discussion forum.  Some of what you read is pure garbage, while other posts are not.  I don't see you excluding yourself from these discussion because of the garbage posted.

 

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19 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Thank you for the clarification.  It is nice to see a brother or sister admit that they are also included in the possibility of being incorrect when it come to prophecy.  The reason why I posted what I did is because the wording you used excluded yourself, otherwise, why not use "we" instead of "you"? 

Your last paragraph is similar to the "you" statement.  Can you tell me one person you are conversing with that does not believe in Him, Christ Jesus?  It seems you base your claim to truth on the fact that you do not research what others have to say about the end time.  I can understand your argument to a point as some of what is available is garbage, while others are not.  You may benefit if you discovered which is and which is not garbage,and try to see how others say the end times.  I liken my request to what happens on this discussion forum.  Some of what you read is pure garbage, while other posts are not.  I don't see you excluding yourself from these discussion because of the garbage posted.

 

Thanks. If you look, you will see I was in fact answering a slightly rude comment. 'sarky' for sarcastic. (not snarky).

I have researched quite a lot until my mind hurts. I cannot find, in the original, anything clearer that Matt 24. So I harmonize the accounts and read them as a single occurrence. The second coming.

What I can find is umpteen occurrences of historic possibility for Daniel's 70 weeks. That is why I talked about the one very serious event of the downfall of Jerusalem in AD 70. Read Josephus' account and mourn right along with him.

The Daniel 70 week thing can be thus answered fairly succinctly. However, if Daniel and all of Revelations refers to the future, then no one has a completely believable iron-clad hypothesis. So in that regard, prophesy can be quite upsetting for some. Take Harold Camping and all the thousands of poor souls that backed his ideas. Such a travesty that I want no part in perpetuating.

Sometimes, in the oddest of posts, a voice of reason is required. This is purely for the thousands that read this stuff without ever contributing. I do not want anyone to scatter nails on the freeway of free speech, neither do I wish to see flat tires and accidents of misunderstanding due to some wrong-thinking statements that put people off believers and their understanding of who exactly their Lord is.

Edited by Justin Adams
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2 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

It was FUTURE when written. None of your 70 week stuff, 7 year stuff or rapture stuff means anything. It is pure subjective guess-work. No matter how 'sarky' you get, you will never, ever know until it happens.

The second coming will be as Yeshua said. 'as in the days of Noah'. And that is it. A sudden unexpected occurrence. I believe His words.

Now everything people claim to be 'truth' to do with future prophesies is actually often incorrect. You can only be aware of 'truth' when it has come true. I.e. actual and provable. So claims of 'truth' in trying to foretell something is disingenuous and actually often a false claim. 

Not true.  

Mat. 16:

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
 
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
 
Revelation knowledge is a wonderful thing.
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28 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Thanks. If you look, you will see I was in fact answering a slightly rude comment. 'sarky' for sarcastic. (not snarky).

I have researched quite a lot until my mind hurts. I cannot find, in the original, anything clearer that Matt 24. So I harmonize the accounts and read them as a single occurrence. The second coming.

What I can find is umpteen occurrences of historic possibility for Daniel's 70 weeks. That is why I talked about the one very serious event of the downfall of Jerusalem in AD 70. Read Josephus' account and mourn right along with him.

The Daniel 70 week thing can be thus answered fairly succinctly. However, if Daniel and all of Revelations refers to the future, then no one has a completely believable iron-clad hypothesis. So in that regard, prophesy can be quite upsetting for some. Take Harold Camping and all the thousands of poor souls that backed his ideas. Such a travesty that I want no part in perpetuating.

Sometimes, in the oddest of posts, a voice of reason is required. This is purely for the thousands that read this stuff without ever contributing. I do not want anyone to scatter nails on the freeway of free speech, neither do I wish to see flat tires and accidents of misunderstanding due to some wrong-thinking statements that put people off believers and their understanding of who exactly their Lord is.

The problem you will find in the way you are looking at this event is that not all what was written about the 70th week can be found in the account of the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD, so it should not be applied to this time-frame.  You may see similarities, but unless the whole prophecy can be seen, then the prophecy is not for that event.

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