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What did Jesus mean by "those days should be shortened...?"

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19 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Thank you for the clarification.  It is nice to see a brother or sister admit that they are also included in the possibility of being incorrect when it come to prophecy.  The reason why I posted what I did is because the wording you used excluded yourself, otherwise, why not use "we" instead of "you"? 

Your last paragraph is similar to the "you" statement.  Can you tell me one person you are conversing with that does not believe in Him, Christ Jesus?  It seems you base your claim to truth on the fact that you do not research what others have to say about the end time.  I can understand your argument to a point as some of what is available is garbage, while others are not.  You may benefit if you discovered which is and which is not garbage,and try to see how others say the end times.  I liken my request to what happens on this discussion forum.  Some of what you read is pure garbage, while other posts are not.  I don't see you excluding yourself from these discussion because of the garbage posted.

 

Thanks. If you look, you will see I was in fact answering a slightly rude comment. 'sarky' for sarcastic. (not snarky).

I have researched quite a lot until my mind hurts. I cannot find, in the original, anything clearer that Matt 24. So I harmonize the accounts and read them as a single occurrence. The second coming.

What I can find is umpteen occurrences of historic possibility for Daniel's 70 weeks. That is why I talked about the one very serious event of the downfall of Jerusalem in AD 70. Read Josephus' account and mourn right along with him.

The Daniel 70 week thing can be thus answered fairly succinctly. However, if Daniel and all of Revelations refers to the future, then no one has a completely believable iron-clad hypothesis. So in that regard, prophesy can be quite upsetting for some. Take Harold Camping and all the thousands of poor souls that backed his ideas. Such a travesty that I want no part in perpetuating.

Sometimes, in the oddest of posts, a voice of reason is required. This is purely for the thousands that read this stuff without ever contributing. I do not want anyone to scatter nails on the freeway of free speech, neither do I wish to see flat tires and accidents of misunderstanding due to some wrong-thinking statements that put people off believers and their understanding of who exactly their Lord is.

Edited by Justin Adams

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2 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

It was FUTURE when written. None of your 70 week stuff, 7 year stuff or rapture stuff means anything. It is pure subjective guess-work. No matter how 'sarky' you get, you will never, ever know until it happens.

The second coming will be as Yeshua said. 'as in the days of Noah'. And that is it. A sudden unexpected occurrence. I believe His words.

Now everything people claim to be 'truth' to do with future prophesies is actually often incorrect. You can only be aware of 'truth' when it has come true. I.e. actual and provable. So claims of 'truth' in trying to foretell something is disingenuous and actually often a false claim. 

Not true.  

Mat. 16:

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
 
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
 
Revelation knowledge is a wonderful thing.

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28 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Thanks. If you look, you will see I was in fact answering a slightly rude comment. 'sarky' for sarcastic. (not snarky).

I have researched quite a lot until my mind hurts. I cannot find, in the original, anything clearer that Matt 24. So I harmonize the accounts and read them as a single occurrence. The second coming.

What I can find is umpteen occurrences of historic possibility for Daniel's 70 weeks. That is why I talked about the one very serious event of the downfall of Jerusalem in AD 70. Read Josephus' account and mourn right along with him.

The Daniel 70 week thing can be thus answered fairly succinctly. However, if Daniel and all of Revelations refers to the future, then no one has a completely believable iron-clad hypothesis. So in that regard, prophesy can be quite upsetting for some. Take Harold Camping and all the thousands of poor souls that backed his ideas. Such a travesty that I want no part in perpetuating.

Sometimes, in the oddest of posts, a voice of reason is required. This is purely for the thousands that read this stuff without ever contributing. I do not want anyone to scatter nails on the freeway of free speech, neither do I wish to see flat tires and accidents of misunderstanding due to some wrong-thinking statements that put people off believers and their understanding of who exactly their Lord is.

The problem you will find in the way you are looking at this event is that not all what was written about the 70th week can be found in the account of the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD, so it should not be applied to this time-frame.  You may see similarities, but unless the whole prophecy can be seen, then the prophecy is not for that event.

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70 AD is not included it any prophecy of scripture

The 69th week ended at the Lord's death and resurrection

The 70th week of 7 years + 30 days and 45 days is still future

There is nothing in the Bible between the end of the 69th week and the beginning of the 70th which has not yet come   

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On 2/2/2018 at 5:35 AM, Justin Adams said:

It was FUTURE when written. None of your 70 week stuff, 7 year stuff or rapture stuff means anything. It is pure subjective guess-work. No matter how 'sarky' you get, you will never, ever know until it happens.

The second coming will be as Yeshua said. 'as in the days of Noah'. And that is it. A sudden unexpected occurrence. I believe His words.

Now everything people claim to be 'truth' to do with future prophesies is actually often incorrect. You can only be aware of 'truth' when it has come true. I.e. actual and provable. So claims of 'truth' in trying to foretell something is disingenuous and actually often a false claim. 

In fact, that is exactly how Paul described it in 1 Thes. 4 & 5. A SUDDENLY is coming, which will be the dead in Christ flying up out of the ground. And Instantly following will be those alive and in Christ flying up into the air with them. And together (the :gathering) they will rise up to meet Christ in the air. We CAN know this because it is written.

When the dead in Christ rise, that event will cause a worldwide earthquake, which will be Paul's "sudden destruction." And Paul hinted strongly that this sudden destruction would be the start of the Day of the Lord. 

While those living in darkness cannot escape this sudden destruction for it will be worldwide, those who are alive will miss this earthquake, because they will be "salvation" or get raptured and get to "live together with Him."

Does Paul tell us WHEN? I think He does, in relation to the start of the Day. Paul tells us that His coming will be a trigger for the dead in Christ to rise - the rapture event - and the rapture event will be the trigger for the start of the Day of the Lord. If we look in Revelation, that fits perfectly with the 6th seal. The rapture then, when it comes, will be followed instantly by the start of the DAY with Paul's "sudden destruction."

I totally agree with your take on Noah. Jesus' point was the suddenness of what happened then. Just before it began to rain, they had no idea death was coming soon. 

I disagree on "truth." What is written is truth. And therefore what will come to pass will be exactly what is written.

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On 2/2/2018 at 12:52 PM, Daniel 11:36 said:

70 AD is not included it any prophecy of scripture

The 69th week ended at the Lord's death and resurrection

The 70th week of 7 years + 30 days and 45 days is still future

There is nothing in the Bible between the end of the 69th week and the beginning of the 70th which has not yet come   

I agree 100%! Good post!

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On 2/2/2018 at 8:11 AM, OneLight said:

The problem you will find in the way you are looking at this event is that not all what was written about the 70th week can be found in the account of the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD, so it should not be applied to this time-frame.  You may see similarities, but unless the whole prophecy can be seen, then the prophecy is not for that event.

Good point!

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      Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,
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      "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." (Rev 3:10)
      When considering Rev 3:10, it is very important to understand the focus of the trial in context. It is that which will allow you to rightly understand what the notable hour of temptation is. In this verse, the focus is said to be upon the earth dwellers, “them that dwell upon the earth.” “The earth dwellers” is a technical term throughout the eschatological portions of the New Testament. The term is the combination of two Greek words (gē and katoikeō or a variation thereof). It always refers to those dwelling on the earth that worship the Beast and receive his mark (even in Rev 12:12). This can be understood to be true by observing this combination of words in the following texts.
      Jesus says concerning the Day of the LORD:
      Luk 21:35  For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
      Jesus uses this combination of words in an eschatological context. He says that the earth dwellers are going to be surprised by the Lord's coming and His wrath on the day of the Lord. They will be caught suddenly, unawares (Luke 21:34; 1Thes 5:3).
      However, Paul clearly teaches that the Day of the LORD will not overtake the watching believer as a thief.
      1Th 5:4  But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
      1Th 5:5  Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
      So “them that dwell on the face of the whole earth” excludes the watching saints. This term is not all inclusive. It refers only to those who are caught unawares or suddenly by Christ's return. (The very elect will not be surprised, because we expect His coming and He has given us events to watch for which will indicate the season of His return and our gathering together unto Him.)
      Next, let's look at what John records concerning the two witnesses:
      Rev 11:7  And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
      Rev 11:10  And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
      Notice here that the earth-dwellers rejoice at the death of God’s two witnesses, which no believer would do. These earth-dwellers are followers of the Beast and False Prophet and they rejoice when God's two witnesses are overcome and killed by the Beast. So, again we see that earth-dwellers excludes the saints.
      Let's look at another instance of John's use of this technical term. Here, it is used for those who are deceived by the false prophet:
      Rev 13:14  And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
      Take notice that the earth-dwellers here are deceived by the False Prophet into worshiping the Beast and receiving his mark, but Jesus said that it was not possible for the “very elect” to be deceived (Matt. 24:24).
      Eleven verses in the book of Revelation contain this technical term for those who worship the Beast and receive his mark.
      Recognizing that the focus of the temptation in Rev 3:10 is upon the earth dwellers, we know that it refers to God's fierce wrath at the beginning of the day of the Lord and not Satan's wrath (Rev 12:12) upon the elect and Israel in the great tribulation. It is God’s tribulation upon the unbelieving, Beast worshipers, who will persecute the church and Israel in the great tribulation, that is referenced in Rev 3:10. The persecuted saints are said to be kept from the hour of temptation, that is, removed from the sphere of God’s, day of the Lord, wrath.
      All praise, honour, and glory be unto the Lamb
    • By Steve Conley
      Understanding the Activity of Michael the Archangel in the Middle of the Seventieth Week

      In this brief post, I would like to make a strong case for Michael the archangel being the restrainer that Paul says is withholding the revelation of the man of sin until it is God's determined time.
      Michael's suitability to be the restrainer
      The Holy Scriptures present Michael as the mightiest of the Heavenly Host. He is seen opposing Satan on a handful of occasions in the Scriptures. Jude tells us that Michael contended with the Devil over the body of Moses, whom he rebuked in the name of the Lord. As recorded in Daniel 10, it is Michael that dealt with the prince of Persia when he had detained Gabriel on his way with a message for Daniel. In the future Michael and his angels will fight a war in heaven with Satan and his angels, after which he will cast Satan to the earth. It is he who appears to have been tasked with the responsibility to hold back the revelation of the man of sin until it is the right time.
      Michael's unique relationship to the middle of the seventieth week
      In the future eschatological period known as Daniel's seventieth week, the archangel Michael will play a significant role. We find him in three passages that present events that take place in the middle of the week.
      1) Michael stands up and an unparalleled time of trouble begins (Dan 12:1)
      Dan 11:45  And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
      Dan 12:1  And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
      Dan 12:2  And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
      Dan 12:7  And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
      The context of the end of Daniel chapter 11 is the activities of the Beast in the end of the age. In chapter 11 we learn characteristics about him and see some of his military activities. The chapter ends with him placing the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain. This location appears to be Mt Zion in Jerusalem. The significance of this is that it is at that time (Dan 12:1) that Michael makes a change in his activity which results in an unparalleled time of trouble (Dan 12:1). This time of trouble is consistent with the great tribulation Jesus spoke of. We also see that there is a unique period length that is mentioned in relation to what is taking place in the beginning of chapter 12. The length that is given is "a time, times, and an half" or 3 1/2 years. Seven times in the Scriptures we find this same length spoken of in various forms: 1260 days, 42 months, and 3 1/2 years. It appears each time that they are associated with the second half of the seventieth week. The obvious conclusion is that the change in activity by Michael takes place in the middle of the week.
      2) War in heaven, Satan cast to the earth (Rev 12:7-14)
      Rev 12:7  And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
      Rev 12:8  And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
      Rev 12:9  And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
      Rev 12:10  And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
      Rev 12:11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
      Rev 12:12  Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
      Rev 12:13  And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
      Rev 12:14  And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
      Rev 12:15  And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
      Rev 12:16  And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
      Rev 12:17  And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
      Michael and his angels will fight a war in heaven with the dragon (Satan) and his angels, after which Satan is cast to the earth having great wrath. Once upon the earth Satan goes after a remnant of Israel (represented by the woman) but she is hid and fed by God in the wilderness for 1260 days (Rev 12:6). The 1260 days indicate that the war in heaven took place in the middle of the week. Again, we see that Michael is very prominent in the middle of the week.
      3) The abomination of desolation starts the great tribulation (Matt 24:15, 21; Dan 9:27)
      Mat 24:15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
      Mat 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
      Dan 9:27  And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
      The temple is defiled in the middle of the week which initiates the great tribulation. This is consistent with the Dan 12 passage but Michael is not mentioned by name or referred to.
      4) The revelation of the man of sin (2Thess 2:3-10)
      2Th 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
      2Th 2:2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
      2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
      2Th 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
      2Th 2:5  Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
      2Th 2:6  And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
      2Th 2:7  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
      2Th 2:8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
      2Th 2:9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
      2Th 2:10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
      In Paul's instruction to the Thessalonians, he tells them that before the day of Christ can come there must be a falling away first and the man of sin be revealed. He also mentions that there is one who is withholding the revelation of the man of sin and that they, the Thessalonians,  knew who it was. This revelation would involve the man of sin sitting in the temple and shewing himself to be God. Paul also says that this Antichrist shall receive power from Satan. 
      We already know from the previous passages we looked at that the abomination of desolation takes place in the middle of the week and it begins the great tribulation. Here we see further details concerning the defiling of the temple and learn of one hindering the work of the mystery of iniquity. It is said that this hindering will continue "until he be taken out of the way." It is interesting to note that the last Greek word in verse seven is "mesos" which means middle even though it is translated "the way". It is as if Paul is saying that the restrainer will continue to hinder until the middle. I wonder what middle he was referring to. Could it be the middle of the week? Could this restrainer be Michael who is associated with the middle of the week?
      I believe Michael is the restrainer of 2Thes 2.
      All praise, honour, and glory be unto the Lord Jesus Christ.

    • By BobRyan
      You will often see a reference to a 70th week at the end of time "inserted" into Revelation, or Matt 24, or 1Thess 4.
      None of those chapters mention a "70th week" or the "midst of the week" or any such thing.
      In the bible we have these 3 rules
      1. All bible timelines are unbroken and contiguous without exception. .Daniel 9:1-7 is a good example withe Jeremiah's 70 years.
      2. All Apocalyptic timeline use day-for-year symbolism. Each day is one solar year.
      3. Bible authors build on the previous prophetic statements of scripture.
       
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