I was asked a question. Why wasnt Paul healed.

[TheBlade]

"Because he wasn't sick. " Amen.

Some have to add to what is not there. The scales that were taken away.. his eyes were never healed.

Gets silly saying he was not healed. Isa 53:5? 1st Peter 2:24? Christ lay hands on the sick and they shall be healed? We know there's more.

"with these surpass surpassingly great revelations so to keep me from becoming conceited I was given a thorn in [my] flesh a messenger of Satan to torment me."

I can't say the last time I heard some refer to some sickness as a thorn or a messenger of Satan to torment them. A sickness no.. To have such great revelations from God..

I like this "Paul said a messenger of Satan brought the thorn. The spirit buffeted (beat, struck as with the fist) and tortured him. The devil continuously slapped the apostle on the face, as the present sub-junctive tense of the verb shows. Thus Paul followed the story of the most blessed experience in life verse 2-4 with that of his deepest humiliation.

Since we truly don't know.. we should share the rest. Some think it was eye problems because he wrote Galatians with big letters and they were willing to give him their eyes if they could Galatians 6:11 4:15. Some say the thorn was epilepsy or chronic attacks of malarial fever. On and on..

 

 

 

 

[Daniel Marsh]

1 hour ago, TheBlade said:

"Because he wasn't sick. " Amen.

Some have to add to what is not there. The scales that were taken away.. his eyes were never healed.

Gets silly saying he was not healed. Isa 53:5? 1st Peter 2:24? Christ lay hands on the sick and they shall be healed? We know there's more.

"with these surpass surpassingly great revelations so to keep me from becoming conceited I was given a thorn in [my] flesh a messenger of Satan to torment me."

I can't say the last time I heard some refer to some sickness as a thorn or a messenger of Satan to torment them. A sickness no.. To have such great revelations from God..

I like this "Paul said a messenger of Satan brought the thorn. The spirit buffeted (beat, struck as with the fist) and tortured him. The devil continuously slapped the apostle on the face, as the present sub-junctive tense of the verb shows. Thus Paul followed the story of the most blessed experience in life verse 2-4 with that of his deepest humiliation.

Since we truly don't know.. we should share the rest. Some think it was eye problems because he wrote Galatians with big letters and they were willing to give him their eyes if they could Galatians 6:11 4:15. Some say the thorn was epilepsy or chronic attacks of malarial fever. On and on..

 

 

 

 

 Isa 53:5? 1st Peter 2:24

Isaiah 53 King James Version (KJV)

53 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?

² For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

³ He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

⁴ Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

⁵ But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

⁶ All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

⁷ He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

⁸ He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

⁹ And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

¹⁰ Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

¹¹ He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

¹² Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

 

 

1 Peter 2 King James Version (KJV)
2 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,

2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.

20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

 

The context of both proof texts is not related to physical healing.   The context is clearly speaking about spiritual healing in both texts.

 

 

 

[Daniel Marsh]

"

Chapter 13. Isaiah teaches that sins are forgiven through Christ's blood

Justin: For Isaiah did not send you to a bath, there to wash away murder and other sins, which not even all the water of the sea were sufficient to purge; but, as might have been expected, this was that saving bath of the olden time which followed those who repented, and who no longer were purified by the blood of goats and of sheep, or by the ashes of an heifer, or by the offerings of fine flour, but by faith through the blood of Christ, and through His death, who died for this very reason, as Isaiah himself said, when he spoke thus:"  https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/01282.htm

"

Chapter 5. The new covenant, founded on the sufferings of Christ, tends to our salvation, but to the Jews' destruction

For to this end the Lord endured to deliver up His flesh to corruption, that we might be sanctified through the remission of sins, which is effected by His blood of sprinkling. For it is written concerning Him, partly with reference to Israel, and partly to us; and [the Scripture] says thus: He was wounded for our transgressions, and bruised for our iniquities: with His stripes we are healed. He was brought as a sheep to the slaughter, and as a lamb which is dumb before its shearer. Isaiah 53:5, 7 Therefore we ought to be deeply grateful to the Lord, because He has both made known to us things that are past, and has given us wisdom concerning things present, and has not left us without understanding in regard to things which are to come. Now, the Scripture says, Not unjustly are nets spread out for birds. This means that the man perishes justly, who, having a knowledge of the way of righteousness, rushes off into the way of darkness. And further, my brethren: if the Lord endured to suffer for our soul, He being Lord of all the world, to whom God said at the foundation of the world, Let us make man after our image, and after our likeness, Genesis 1:26 understand how it was that He endured to suffer at the hand of men. The prophets, having obtained grace from Him, prophesied concerning Him. And He (since it behooved Him to appear in flesh), that He might abolish death, and reveal the resurrection from the dead, endured [what and as He did], in order that He might fulfil the promise made unto the fathers, and by preparing a new people for Himself, might show, while He dwelt on earth, that He, when He has raised mankind, will also judge them. "

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0124.htm

 

[Daniel Marsh]

"34. The Sun was darkened, because of the Sun of Righteousness Malachi 4:2. Rocks were rent, because of the spiritual Rock. Tombs were opened, and the dead arose, because of Him who was free among the dead ; He sent forth His prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water Zechariah 9:11. Be not then ashamed of the Crucified, but be also bold to say, He bears our sins, and endures grief for us, and with His stripes we are healed. Isaiah 53:4-5 Let us not be unthankful to our Benefactor. And again; for the transgression of my people was He led to death; and I will give the wicked for His burial, and the rich for His death. Therefore Paul says plainly, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He has risen again the third day according to the Scriptures 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 ."  https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/310113.htm

 

"

 For instance, every reader can understand the words, "He was led as a lamb to the slaughter," and the whole of that plain prophecy, "With His stripes we are healed"— "He bore our sins." Isaiah liii We have a poetical gospel in the words: "They pierced my hands and feet. They have told all my bones. They look and stare upon me. They divided my garments among them, and cast lots on my vesture." The blind even may now see the fulfillment of the words: "All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn unto the Lord, and all kingdoms of the nations shall worship before Him." The words in the Gospel, "My soul is sorrowful, even unto death," "My soul is troubled," are a repetition of the words in the Psalm, "I slept in trouble." And who made Him sleep? Whose voices cried, Crucify him, crucify him? The Psalm tells us: "The sons of men, their teeth are spears and arrows, and their tongue a sharp sword." But they could not prevent His resurrection, or His ascension above the heavens, or His filling the earth with the glory of His name; for the Psalm says: "Be Thou exalted, O God, above the heavens, and let Your glory be above all the earth." Every one must apply these words to Christ: "The Lord said to me, You are my Son, this day have I begotten You. Ask of me, and I will give You the heathen for Your inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for Your possession." And what Jeremiah says of wisdom plainly applies to Christ: "Jacob delivered it to his son, and Israel to his chosen one. Afterwards He appeared on earth, and conversed with men."

44. The same Saviour is spoken of in Daniel, where the Son of man appears before the Ancient of days, and receives a kingdom without end, that all nations may serve Him. Daniel 7:13-14 In the passage quoted from..."

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/140612.htm

[Daniel Marsh]

"In the prophetic language, however, the original idea of the kofer offering had become lost, and, instead of the offended person (God), the offense or guilt became the object of the Atonement (compare Isa. vi. 7, Hebr.: "Thy sin ["tekuppar"] is atoned for [A. V., "purged"]"; Isa. xxvii. 9, Hebr.: "By this, therefore, shall the iniquity of Jacob be atoned for [A. V., "purged"]"; I Sam. iii. 14: "The iniquity of Eli's house shall not be atoned for [A. V., "purged"] with sacrifice nor offering for ever"; Prov. xvi. 6: "By mercy and truth iniquity is atoned for [A. V., "purged"]"); and, consequently, instead of the priest as the offerer of the ransom, God Himself became the one who atoned (Deut. xxi. 8, "Kapper le'amka Israel," "Atone thou for thy people Israel" [Driver, Commentary, "Clear thou thy people"; A. V., "Be merciful, O Lord"]; compare Deut. xxxii. 43, "And he will atone for the land of his people [Driver, Commentary, "Clear from guilt"; A. V., "will be merciful unto his land, and to his people"]; see also Jer. xviii. 23; Ezek. xvi. 63; Ps. lxv. 4, lxxviii. 38, lxxix. 9; II Chron. xxx. 18).

...

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/2092-atonement

[Daniel Marsh]

Your position is not in historical theology.   Nowhere.    It is a modern misinterpretation of Isaiah which is read into the text.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

The use in Matthew 8 is related to Jesus' healing ministry while on earth.   But, at that time the atonement or the cross has not happened.   Thus, this text is not related to the atonement at that time.

"The context of Isaiah 53 also points strongly to a spiritual healing. First, Isaiah describes the spiritual sickness that we’re saved from (i.e. trespasses and iniquity). Second, he describes the spiritual healing that we’re saved to (i.e. peace and healing). These parallelisms in Isaiah cannot be overstated."

https://www.str.org/w/the-bible-never-promises-immediate-physical-healing-in-the-atonement

Google "mary baker eddy healing atonement Matthew 8" and you will find that Christian Science was the first to read physical healing in the atonement.

 

 

 

[Daniel Marsh]

https://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/is-physical-healing-provided-in-the-atonement/

https://www.str.org/w/the-bible-never-promises-immediate-physical-healing-in-the-atonement