Is the Trinity like 1/3+1/3+1/3=1?

[ScottA]

On 1/16/2018 at 12:37 PM, Aravis said:

Searching about the Trinity, I found very good explanations like the "one BEING that has 3 PERSONS" or the analogy of the cube as in C. S. Lewis book. But, if a cube is made of 6 sqaures, it means that, if one square is missing, we can no longer call that figure a cube, and, the square that is missing in this cube is not a cube anymore, it is just a square. Does that mean that, without one of these persons, God is not complete? Do those 3 persons depend on each other to become God like the squares depend on each other to become a cube? Would we say that the trinity is like 1/3 of God? Like 1/3+1/3+1/3=1? I know it doesn't fit in the definition of the Christian God. But what would be the answer for it? How does the trinity works in this sense?

The Trinity is simply a way of acknowledging the obvious acts of God by category. It is the Me, Myself, and I of God. 

Much as we (being created after His likeness) have our personal self, our family self, our professional self...so does God. I myself, am a Father, a son, and a man of title - but I, just as it is with God, am one. Of course with God it is more complex, but not unlike us simply wearing different hats.

[other one]

This is something I posted some time ago that addresses my belief in the trinity. 

 

 

Exod 24 10Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet (15) there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and they ate and drank. [/]

 

 

John 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, ' AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

46 Not that any man has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. [/]

 

 

Moses and friends saw the God of Israel and were not harmed.

 

Jesus says that no man has seen the father except He that came from Him.

So it seems to me that the Father that Jesus speaks of, is not what that the Nation of Israel interfaced with in the old testament.

 

Looking further:

 

 

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life and the life was the light of men.[/]

 

 

John 1:9 There was the true light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. He was in the world and the world was made through Him and the world did not know Him.[/]

 

John 8:57-59

 57 The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" 58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

NASB[/]

 

It seems to me to be saying that Jesus was what the Nation of Israel interfaced with in the old testament days. Jesus in this form was with the Father from the beginning.

 

It seems to me that the people of the old testament days were not aware of the Father except for what they saw through the Jesus in the form he existed in before he became flesh.

 

 

Further:

 

 

Philippians 2:5+ Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with god a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.[/]

 

 

It appears to me that Jesus as the word was that which the Father worked through to manifest Himself to the people of the old testament times. Jesus did not regard himself to want to be the equal to the Father so He took the form of a human to further the works of the Father on earth.

 

Jesus was deity by being in the form of God, but it was the Father that did the work through Him when he was the Word. It appears that the only thing that has changed is Jesus is now flesh working the same way only as a man. The Father exercises His will through Jesus, now in the fleshly body.

 

 

 

John 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in me does His works. Believe Me that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me; [/]

 

 

 

 

John 17:20 Jesus prayed " I do not ask in behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their work: that they may all be one; even as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be in Us; that the world may believe that Thou didst send Me"[/]

 

 

 

It seems to me that Jesus just extended the conduit from Him to us for the Father to do His work through Jesus to us so we could know the Father as the Father knows us. Thus we now can do the work of the Father. I believe this is the path and workings of the Holy Spirit

 

 

 

 

 

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. For since by a man came death, by a man also come the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive.. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, then comes the end, when He delivers up the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put al His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection, it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection, to Him. And when all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, That God may be all in all.[/]

 

Jesus, before His ascension told the Apostles that all power and authority had been given to Him. After he has subdued everything Jesus will also be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him........ The Father.

 

I don't see the Son always being equal with the Father, either when He was the word nor in the flesh. He will also be subject to the Father after He does the job of bringing the kingdom into it's full power over all and giving it to the Father.

 

 

1 Cor 8:5-6

5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

NASB

[/]

We have one God……   The Father, which we access through the Son our Lord, which we now access through the Holy Spirit which Jesus sent to us.   We have to have all three to have access to any, thus we have our trinity so to speak.

[brakelite]

On 20/01/2018 at 10:02 AM, HAZARD said:

 The word Trinity is not mentioned in Scripture one time in the entire Bible. The Word Godhead is mentioned three times;

 

 Acts 17:29, Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

    Romans 1:20, For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

    Colossians 2:9, For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

 

God the Father, The Word, who was with God the Father, and was God,  who became flesh, John 1:1; 1:14, and the Holy Spirit are three separate beings who are "ONE" in unity in all things and not inside each other in one body as many are taught and believe.

Fairly much with you there. It is dangerous, even insulting, to create analogies from nature (such as the clover) to describe the Godhead. Or from mathematics. However we describe it, we are denigrating Him. Like you, I would rather just cleave to what scripture says. 

"But to us there is but one God, the Father...."  ...."thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God...."  .....and of course the holy Spirit is described as the Spirit of Christ and of God. It is their Spirit.

[Mike 2]

dough

Edited March 7, 2018 by Mike 2
posted twice....ooops

[Mike 2]

On 1/16/2018 at 3:37 PM, Aravis said:

Searching about the Trinity, I found very good explanations like the "one BEING that has 3 PERSONS" or the analogy of the cube as in C. S. Lewis book. But, if a cube is made of 6 sqaures, it means that, if one square is missing, we can no longer call that figure a cube, and, the square that is missing in this cube is not a cube anymore, it is just a square. Does that mean that, without one of these persons, God is not complete? Do those 3 persons depend on each other to become God like the squares depend on each other to become a cube? Would we say that the trinity is like 1/3 of God? Like 1/3+1/3+1/3=1? I know it doesn't fit in the definition of the Christian God. But what would be the answer for it? How does the trinity works in this sense?

I think you are closer to understanding the trinity than most people

Miss Muffet has posted a diagram that I often see. I think it needs to be drawn differently to better understand the Trinity.

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit make up God. God is not some 4th entity but is the 3 of them together.

On 1/16/2018 at 6:27 PM, missmuffet said:

The Holy trinity. One God but three distinct persons. God he Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

I think this diagram is actually misleading because it appears that God is a 4th entity separate from the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

God should not be at the center. There is no God and then also the Father, Son and Holy Spirit

Instead there should be a circle that encompasses all 3 and it should be labeled God.

Then we would see that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit make up God. 

 

[HAZARD]

On ‎17‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 7:37 AM, Aravis said:

Searching about the Trinity, I found very good explanations like the "one BEING that has 3 PERSONS" or the analogy of the cube as in C. S. Lewis book. But, if a cube is made of 6 sqaures, it means that, if one square is missing, we can no longer call that figure a cube, and, the square that is missing in this cube is not a cube anymore, it is just a square. Does that mean that, without one of these persons, God is not complete? Do those 3 persons depend on each other to become God like the squares depend on each other to become a cube? Would we say that the trinity is like 1/3 of God? Like 1/3+1/3+1/3=1? I know it doesn't fit in the definition of the Christian God. But what would be the answer for it? How does the trinity works in this sense?

Hi Aravis.
The word Trinity is not mentioned once in Scripture in the entire Bible. The word Godhead is mentioned three times in; (Acts 17:29; Rom. 1:20; Col. 2:9). The term Godhead simply means that which is divine. It is used of Jesus Himself in (Col. 2:9-10), "For in Him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily," "And ye are complete IN HIM which is the head of all principality and power." (Jesus overcame all principalities and powers by His death and resurrection). We are complete in Him only in unity as He, the Father, and the Holy Ghost are one in unity and not bodily.

The word Trinity means the union of the three persons in the Godhead, each who IS called God and Lord in various Scriptures throughout the Bible, and who are "Self-existent" and "Eternal." In Psalm 110:1; Matt. 22:44; Zech. 2:10-11 we have the Father and the Son both called "Lord," and when we read Ex. 16:7 with Heb. 3:7-8 and Isa. 6:8-9 with Acts 28:25 and Ex. 17:7 with Heb. 3:7-9, and Jer. 31:31-34 with Heb. 10:15-16 these Scriptures prove that the Holy Spirit is also called "Lord." The Holy Spirit is distinctly called God in Acts 5:3-4. Here Peter here askes Ananias, why he kept back part of the price . . . why Ananias let Satan fill his heart to lie to the Holy Ghost . . . and Peter goes on to say Ananias had not lied to men but to God."

God the Father, God the Son, AND God the Holy Ghost, in one (unified) Godhead or divinity, so that all three persons are one in unity and eternal substance, but three separate and distinct persons as to indivuality. Three separate and distinct persons are spoken of in (1 John 5:7). Jesus Himself declared and taught us to go forth and baptize in the name of the Father AND of the Son AND of the Holy Ghost (Matt. 28:19).

Scriptures such as "one Lord" (Deut 6:4) and "one God" (Mal. 2:10) means unitied, or united in one. Similarly, the scriptures "They shall be one flesh" (Gen. 2:24); "the people are one" (Gen. 11:6), do not mean all the people are one in body.

In the beginning God revealed the Godhead as consisting of more than one person. In Gen. 2:26 "And God said, LET US make man in OUR IMAGE, after OUR LIKENESS." Also in Gen. 3:22 He plainly said, "The man is become AS ONE OF US." The phrase "as one of" means "like each person of several persons of the same kind," as proved wherever the statement "as one of" is found in Scripture (Gen. 19:14; 42:27; 49:16; Ex. 12:48; Lev. 19:34; 24:22; Num. 12:12; 2 Sam. 13:13; 14:13; Job 12:4; ect., no person uses such a phrase and not refer to more than one person who could make "us." If God refers to the Godhead as "us" we should take it that He knows what He is talking about and that there are more than one person in the Godhead.

In John 1:1 we have the statement, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." The Word became flesh and dwelt among us in John 1:14. We know the Word God took upon Himself a flesh and bone body and became Jesus. We must ask ourselves which God was the Word with in the beginning in John 1:1? He was with the Father for in (1 Cor. 3:23; 11:3) Paul said that "Christ was God's and God was "the head of Christ." Jesus dwelt amongst us whilst the Father remained in Heaven.

Acts 2:33-39 referes to three separate persons of the deity: It is said of Jesus [one person], "Therefore being BY THE RIGHT HAND of God exalted and having RECIEVED OF THE FATHER [another person] the promise OF THE HOLY GHOST [a third person] He hath shed forth THIS [the Holy Ghost] which ye now SEE and HEAR." Thus TWO persons, Jesus in His flesh and bone body, and the Father who is spirit, stayed in Heaven sitting side by side, and the Holy Ghost (a third person) came from the two in Heaven to take the place of Jesus among men.

If God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost are "one God" in one body, all the Scriptures mentioned above are lies, and if they are lies then the whole Bible cannot be believed.

The fact that Jesus took upon Himself a flesh and bone body and that He was resurrected and STILL HAS His flesh and bone body and sits at the Fathers right hand in Heaven in it, (Mark 16:19; Luke 22:69), is proved by His statement to His disciples; "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have" (Luke 24:39); and to Thomas Jesus said; "Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing" (John 20:27). And Thomas answered and said unto Him, My Lord AND my God" (John 21:28).

How could Jesus, a self confessed flesh and bones being, be sitting at the Fathers right hand [the Father being spirit] in Heaven and be "one" in body with the Father? Jesus Himself said above, "Spirit doth not have flesh and bone as ye see me have." If Jesus and the Father are "one" in body, then the Father must be flesh and bone, or Jesus must be spirit, and this would be a lie. Jesus will have His flesh and bone body for all eternity (Zech. 13:6).

And what was Jesus saying and asking the Father when He prayed to the Father this prayer;

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, AS WE ARE" (John 17:11).

And, "That they MAY BE ONE; as thou, Father art IN ME, and I IN THEE, that they MAY BE ONE IN US: that the world may believe that thou has sent me" (John 17:21).

"And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, even AS WE ARE ONE: I in them, and thou IN ME, that they may be made perfect IN ONE; and that the world may know etc., (John 17:22-23). "And I have declared unto them thy name, and I will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, AND I IN THEM" (John 17:26).

Jesus prayed to the Father to keep His disciples and all His followers "one in unity" as He and the Father were. He never asked the Father to allow all the followers and disciples all to get inside one of them and form "one body" as fundamental Christianity wrongly teaches Jesus and the Father are.

Jesus upbraided the disciples not for their misunderstanding, but for their unbelief (Mark 16:13-14), and he will upbraid us as well if we do not believe who He, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are. They are one in unity not body as these plain simple Scriptures state.

Jesus said;

"And the Father Himself, [one person] which hath sent me [another person, hath born WITNESS OF ME. Ye have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His shape (JOhn 5:37). How can this Scripture be true if they are "ONE" as fundamental Christianity teaches?

Jesus instructs us to "Search the Scriptures; for in the ye THINK ye have eternal life: and they which testify of me" (John 5:39). How can we pray to a God if we do not know who He is? Jesus said, "Ask me nothing. Verily verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father IN MY NAME, He will give it you"(John 16:23). The Father never refuses Jesus anything, so when we ask the Father in the Name of Jesus, to the Father its like Jesus asking the Father Himself. They are two separate individual self existant beings, sitting beside each other in Heaven. This is as clear and as simple to believe as any other doctrin in the Bible. Our plain common sense tells us that one person cannot sit beside himself, and God would not expect us to believe He sits beside Himself in two types of bodies, constantly transforming Himself at will, asking Himself questions and invoking prayers in His Jesus Name, and then answering them to His Jesus self as the Father. To believe this theory of Satan, which is continued by men is plain madness.

A God who could not make Himself clear, or had to be interpreted and be declared a mystery is no God at all. Let us believe, like sensible men, that God can make Himself understood. He will hold men responsible for what He says, not for what men interpret His words to say. He has a right to judge men in the end if they constantly make Him false in all that He says, if they listen to satanic theories. "He that rejecteth me, and recieveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day" (John 12:48; Rev. 20:11-15). This should be enough for men to quit the foolishness of changing God's Word to mean anything they want it to mean? It is the height of ignorance for anyone to claim to know God better than He has revealed Himself to be.

The Trinity consists of three divine beings each with their own separate body, soul, and Spirit as over 500 Scriptures prove. To deny this and believe that God is three persons in one body is to believe the theories of men which cannot be supported Scripturally

[Mike 2]

Jesus (as THE SON) said he does not speak on his own but only as instructed by the FATHER

Joh 14:10  You believe, don't you, that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own. It is the Father who dwells in me and who carries out his work. 

Joh 14:28  You have heard me tell you, 'I am going away, but I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am. 

We are seeing here how "GOD" works.

The communication of the Fathers will is perfectly given, through the HOLY SPIRIT to the Son who works in the physical to do the perfect will of the Father on earth as it is in heaven. There are many verses in John's gospel that indicate the work of the Holy Spirit but I have found Paul's description in 1 Corinthians revealing.

1Co 2:10  But God has revealed those things to us by his Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the deep things of God. 
1Co 2:11  Is there anyone who can understand his own thoughts except his own inner spirit? In the same way, no one can know the thoughts of God except God's Spirit.

Clearly the HOLY SPIRIT and the THOUGHTS of God are 2 different parts within God.

If we know that the SON is a part of the Trinity and the HOLY SPIRIT is a part of the Trinity. What must the "thoughts" be? They can only be the FATHER.

With that in mind both of the verses above from John show us how God is made up of these 3 different but perfectly intertwined parts that must all work together to manifest anything in the physical world.

Here's what I think is incredible....when we accept Christ and become SONS OF GOD we now have the Holy Spirit connecting us directly to the "thoughts of God"...to the Father. We are to be as Jesus in the world.

It gives a whole new understanding to 

Mat 18:20  because where two or three have come together in my name, I am there among them."

We relate spiritually, one on one, directly with the Father through the Holy Spirit...there is nothing physical involved, but when the Father wants to work in the physical such as when we relate with each other at work etc, we have to create in the physical to do that, we therefore take on the same work as THE SON

Col 1:16  For by him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether they are kings, lords, rulers, or powers. All things have been created through him and for him.

That's how Jesus is there among us......big responsibility

[Roc777]

I like to think of the Trinity as water. Take a glass of water, put ice in it, they are both the same just in different form. Now take the ice water and boil it, you get steam. All are H2O just in different form..

[HAZARD]

1 hour ago, Roc777 said:

I like to think of the Trinity as water. Take a glass of water, put ice in it, they are both the same just in different form. Now take the ice water and boil it, you get steam. All are H2O just in different form..

And what was Jesus saying and asking the Father when He prayed to the Father this prayer;

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, AS WE ARE" (John 17:11).

And, "That they MAY BE ONE; as thou, Father art IN ME, and I IN THEE, that they MAY BE ONE IN US: that the world may believe that thou has sent me" (John 17:21).

"And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, even AS WE ARE ONE: I in them, and thou IN ME, that they may be made perfect IN ONE; and that the world may know etc., (John 17:22-23). "And I have declared unto them thy name, and I will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, AND I IN THEM" (John 17:26).

Jesus prayed to the Father to keep His disciples and all His followers "one in unity" as He and the Father were. He never asked the Father to allow all the followers and disciples all to get inside one of them and form "one body" as fundamental Christianity wrongly teaches Jesus and the Father are.

[Guest Autrey1]

(Searching about the Trinity, I found very good explanations. ... Does that mean that, without one of these persons, God is not complete? Do those 3 persons depend on each other to become God like the squares depend on each other to become a cube? Would we say that the trinity is like 1/3 of God? Like 1/3+1/3+1/3=1? . ... How does the trinity works in this sense?)

I will make this as simple as possible.  The key to understanding the Trinity is to understand this basic truth that we see all through the 4 Gospels. The one God or one entity called God talks among himself much as we do.  He has always done this (from eternity) and he always will. And as being made in his image, it should be easy for us to understand this because we do it all the time.

"Should I go or not go?" "Yes you should."

See most people don't know this but it's true.  There is conversation in God's mind between Himself as the Father, Himself as the Son, and Himself as the Holy Spirit.  In other words, he speaks among himself as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, or as Trinity, you might say. 

Now why God chose to reveal himself to us this way I don't know.  But that is what he did.

So as the Son he says to himself as the Father, "Father should I go to the earth and die for man's sins?'  And as the Father he says to himself as the Son, "Yes Son, you should."  And as the Son he says to himself as the Father, "Not my will but yours be done."

But as you can see, all the words he speaks out loud or to us are done by him as Jesus! 

So it's not a matter or time and space, or dividing God into 3 separate parts.  Or two parts, as some teach.  It's name recognition.  That is, by what name he chooses to speak to us.  And that name is always Jesus.

Autrey1