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Why So Many Translations?


Dennis1209

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19 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Hey Joulre2abba,

I'm not shunning or disparaging any translation of the Bible, see the second sentence disclaimer. I asked for opinions and I respect yours, and learning what others think as I go. 

Do you find my 'reasons' inaccurate or misleading in any way? You don't see a profit motivation as one possible reason for all the copyrights and translations?

If there's a profit motivation, then think about your promoting the KJB? It could just as easily be flipped around to look like money is a subtle reason behind the focus on it.. like saying "don't waste your money on "any other unworthy version", but spend it on the KJB". The printers who make money off printing the KJB will certainly be appreciating your reasons why you think that the KJB is the only authorized version, and better than all other versions.

I don't see that promoting the Elizabethan English is a legitimate reason since you don't even speak it when you converse anywhere and no one else does either. As a matter of fact, if it's the promotion of a pure language, then no one should have translated it all but required everyone to learn the original languages and thereby keep it pure and not downgraded by all inaccurate translations. I speculate that is why the Catholics speak in Latin when they perform their holy services.. they imply that Latin is more pure than English. So the churchgoers don't read their Bible to know the scriptures, and don't pray for themselves.

So I see such implication that the KJB is somehow holier than today's English as highly misleading. What's important is that the Bible message is understood and easy to comprehend for the average sinner who only speaks the language of the street. Soul winners have to speak their language, and so does the Bible.

Edited by Joulre2abba
added a "not"
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On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 2:09 PM, missmuffet said:

I read the NKJV. I like it. It is easy to read and it does not have the old English in it like the KJV. It also had Jesus's words in red which I like.

11 He cwæð: Soðlice sum monn hæfde twegen suna.
12 Þa cwæð se gingra to his fæder, "Fæder, sele me mine dæl minre æhte þe me to gebyreþ." Þa dælde he him his æhta.
13 Ða æfter feawum dagum eall his þing gegaderode se gingra sunu ond ferde wræclice on feorlen rice ond forspilde þær his æhta, libbende on his gælsan.
14 Ða he hie hæfde ealle amierrede, þa wearð micel hungor on þam rice and he wearð wædla.
15 Þa ferde he and folgode anum burhsittendum men þæs rices; ða sende he hine to his tune þæt he heolde his swin.
16 Ða gewilnode he his wambe gefyllan of þam beancoddum þe ða swin æton, and him mon ne sealde.
17 Þa beþohte he hine ond cwæð, "Eala, hu fela hyrlinga on mines fæder huse hlaf genohne habbað, ond ic her on hunger forweorðe!"
18 Ic arise ond ic fare to minum fæder and ic secge him, "Eala fæder, ic syngode on heofonas and beforan þe;
19 Nu ic ne eom wierðe þæt ic beo þin sunu nemned; do me swa anne of þinum hyrlingum."
20 Ond he aras þa and com to his fæder. And þa giet þa he wæs feorr his fæder, he hine geseah ond wearð mid mildheortnesse astyred and ongean hine arn ond hine beclypte ond cyste hine.
21 Ða cwæð his sunu, "Fæder, ic syngode on heofon ond beforan ðe; nu ic ne eom wierþe þæt ic þin sunu beo genemned."

THEIR YA GO SIS  ,  that is old English .   just a wee bit harder to understand is it.................

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2 minutes ago, Joulre2abba said:

If there's a profit motivation, then think about your promoting the KJB? It could just as easily be flipped around to look like money is a subtle reason behind the focus on it.. like saying "don't waste your money on "any other unworthy version", but spend it on the KJB". The printers who make money off printing the KJB will certainly be appreciating your reasons why you think that the KJB is the only authorized version, and better than all other versions.

I don't see that promoting the Elizabethan English is a legitimate reason since you don't even speak it when you converse anywhere and no one else does either. As a matter of fact, if it's the promotion of a pure language, then no one should have translated it all but required everyone to learn the original languages and thereby keep it pure and not downgraded by all so called "inaccurate translations". I speculate that is why the Catholics speak in Latin when they perform their holy services.. they imply that Latin is more pure than English. So the churchgoers don't read their Bible to know the scriptures, and don't pray for themselves.

So I see such implication that the KJB is somehow holier than today's English as highly misleading. What's important is that the Bible message is understood and easy to comprehend for the average sinner who only speaks the language of the street. Soul winners have to speak their language, and so does the Bible.

Just editing another mistake I saw.

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On 1/17/2018 at 4:45 PM, Dennis1209 said:

What translation of the Bible do you use, and why? I think that's a legitimate question.  

First off, I'm by no means knocking any translation of the Bible whatsoever. 

I often see and hear the question, "why are there so many Bible translations"? I've often heard because there was a need for a different translation to keep up with the times and general understanding. Rather than rely on others opinions, I did a little digging on my own. I wasn't surprised when I came to the conclusion of the age old adage: 'follow the money'.

Even today, the Bible has been the number one selling book of all time. With the exception of the 1611 King James AV, most Bible's of today are copyrighted. Exactly what does that mean? It means you may not reproduce, share or distribute the translators work without a royalty or permission paid (money). I'll withhold of what I think about that.

My percentage may be off a little bit, but to obtain a copyright to a translation of the Bible, it must differ by at least 15%. Fifteen percent from what? Anything that differs, is altered or omitted by 15% from something that is 100% accurate, you get the point. In my opinion the AV King James Bible is the most accurate version ever translated to English. And speaking of 'English', old English is not that hard to comprehend and has an elegance to it, and those ye, thy and thou's make it more accurate than our English modern vernacular, he be, she be, it be... 

If we have difficulty understanding certain word meanings, we have a number of convenient references to look them up; such as Strong's complete dictionary of Bible words.

https://support.biblegateway.com/hc/en-us/articles/228180227-Why-are-modern-Bible-translations-copyrighted-

I'm interested in the translation you use and why? I'm open to learning something new. 

Hi, The simple answer is publishers.

The publishing rights are owned by competing  Bible/Christian publishing companies.

And that is okay, for that competition for the market funds and adds to the mix good commentary in lots of excellent study Bibles. I use many myself, not that I need more than a few, but I have been around awhile and so have had time to accumulate many different Bibles from an array of publishers. Lets see, as I turn around, I count eight here plus seven commentaries and a few specialty reference books that I use  often. There are more in my back library that I go to on rarer occasion. It all just a function or result of time going by, nothing much more.

On worthy I have taken to using the ESV just to be somewhat consistent in my posts here.

Truth is of little use unless it is read, prayed over, thought about, and then applied to one's life. One page read from any Bible is better than  a thousand sitting on a shelf regardless of  the "version".

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On 1/17/2018 at 7:45 PM, Dennis1209 said:

Why So Many Translations?

I believe the major problem is not in the many translations but in the lack of people who read, hear, understand, and put in practice.

In other words: The major problem is in people not reading it or reading it without the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

 

Wake up, people!

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8 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

My sister.    I thought we had been through this.   the KJV is not old English it aint even middle English, but early modern English.

Surely dear sister you don't think I am smarter than you .    I can understand the KJV quite well.   and of course the words I did not understand

I got a old English dictionary.    Any way sister .  You knows that I loves ya. 

You have inspired me to bring you a present .  its a beauty so let me go find it .

We all have to know that everyone has a particular translation they are comfortable with. One translation does not suit all.

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Hi bros and sis's

When I got saved I bought a small NASB.  Later I wanted a concordance, so I bought a bigger NASB with a Biblical Cyclopedic Index in it.  It has been very good.  Now I prefer the KJB, but the NASB is pretty good!

Now, just a word of caution.  I don't know how many people know about this, but there is a bible version (I use lower case "b" for a reason) called "The Message".  My father-in-law loved the Lord, but when he passed away, my husband was given it.  (Dad may have bought it out of curiosity; we don't know.) We have had it sitting in our bookcase for years, (never read) but have now discovered that it is very New Agey and definitely one to stay away from.  A sister looked it up and discovered a review on it which is worth reading, and we are going to burn this one.

Oh, and btw, Dennis - I am a suspicious person as I have been scammed and also someone yesterday sent a message to my 'phone - about my bank account, and what I should do to find out more - which I deleted.  It is happening more and more -SO, my first thought when I read the thread name was - you guessed it - money! (Gotta admit it.)

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On 18/01/2018 at 5:45 AM, Dennis1209 said:

, most Bible's of today are copyrighted. Exactly what does that mean? It means you may not reproduce, share or distribute the translators work without a royalty or permission paid (money). I'll withhold of what I think about that.

hi

I am not an expert - but i don't think that 'copyright' necessarily means a payment.  It can simply mean getting permission first from the copyright holder.  And I think that can actually be a good thing sometimes.. For example in situations where unscrupulous folk might try to change something in the Bible.. but keep the rest.. perhaps bible having a copyright can make it harder for them?  Since they might have to get permission from the copyright holder first before reproducing the Bible?  

Also if I am not mistaken.... the KJV-AV.. is also under 'royal permission' or something..at least in the UK..  For example:

http://www.cambridge.org/bibles/about/rights-and-permissions/rights-and-permissions-kjv/#gWzf4ysvIuYOoAHb.97

Anyways just some thoughts thats all. 

Thanks.

 

Edited by just_abc
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On 1/17/2018 at 5:45 PM, Dennis1209 said:

What translation of the Bible do you use, and why? I think that's a legitimate question.  

First off, I'm by no means knocking any translation of the Bible whatsoever. 

I often see and hear the question, "why are there so many Bible translations"? I've often heard because there was a need for a different translation to keep up with the times and general understanding. Rather than rely on others opinions, I did a little digging on my own. I wasn't surprised when I came to the conclusion of the age old adage: 'follow the money'.

Even today, the Bible has been the number one selling book of all time. With the exception of the 1611 King James AV, most Bible's of today are copyrighted. Exactly what does that mean? It means you may not reproduce, share or distribute the translators work without a royalty or permission paid (money). I'll withhold of what I think about that.

My percentage may be off a little bit, but to obtain a copyright to a translation of the Bible, it must differ by at least 15%. Fifteen percent from what? Anything that differs, is altered or omitted by 15% from something that is 100% accurate, you get the point. In my opinion the AV King James Bible is the most accurate version ever translated to English. And speaking of 'English', old English is not that hard to comprehend and has an elegance to it, and those ye, thy and thou's make it more accurate than our English modern vernacular, he be, she be, it be... 

If we have difficulty understanding certain word meanings, we have a number of convenient references to look them up; such as Strong's complete dictionary of Bible words.

https://support.biblegateway.com/hc/en-us/articles/228180227-Why-are-modern-Bible-translations-copyrighted-

I'm interested in the translation you use and why? I'm open to learning something new. 

This is Satan's way of watering down Scripture and befuddling the minds of people, making it hard for them to discern what is the best translation to use. So in the end far too many people go along with bibles that change scripture, usually with regards to passages referring to the divinity of Christ, and calling God Lord, and are filled in the end with nothing but confusion regarding the true nature of God.

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Hi Dennis.

I posted this post about 2 weeks ago, but I think it never been actually posted on this forum due to some requirements and review of the context from "authorities" so I posted it again today, and it may give you a better perception how Scriptures originated and their reproductions.

ORIGIN OF THE HEBREW LANGUAGE

 

 

In order to understand Bible better, it is essential to understand its origin, and how it was written in its original form and how its numerous copies have been translated in many languages and propagated throughout the centuries all over the world.

 

In “Torah and Commentaries” of Itz Hayim, in the paragraphs of “Textual Critcism” Pages 1499-1500, and of “Source Criticism” Pages 1500-1501, mentioned presumable origin of the Hebrew language, and description of a way of how Hebrew Torah was translated and copied.

 

Below presented short cuts of the texts specifying the essentials of this issue.

 

 

TEXTUAL CRITICISM

 

Textual criticism attempts to understand the words written by the human authors. The oldest complete forms of the Books of the Torah extant today are in manuscript (handwritten) copies, none of which is earlier that the 10th century B.C. There is, therefore, a gap of as much as 2000 years between the original writing of the Document and the earliest complete copy to which we have access.

 

Of the several thousand manuscripts copies and fragments of the various parts of the Bible that exist today, no two are identical. This is to be expected. How could any literary work that was handed down for many generations are free from error? And yet, the evidence of the Dead Sea scrolls from Qumran, dating from 2000 years ago (and thus 1000 years earlier than the complete copies), confirms the general reliability of the basis textual tradition that has been transmitted.

 

(Qumran. The site of the caves where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found beginning in 1947; or, the ancient Jewish sect described in those scrolls.)

 

Although average reader of the Bible will not concern themselves with the details of textual criticism, modern study of the Bible has benefited greatly from the diligent research of textual criticism. This type of criticism is the basis for the translation of the Bible from its original Hebrew and Aramaic into the languages of the modern reader. In that every translation is an interpretation, the basis for translation must be studied carefully.

 

Many of us naively assume that the Torah we use today is an exact copy of one original text, but there are many versions of the text of the Torah. Most of the English translations of the Torah under Jewish auspices are based on what is called the Masoretic text, a text that has been passed down to us by a group of scholars and scribes called the Masoretes, who lived around 1000 years ago.

 

(Masoretic text. The traditional authoritative Hebrew text of the Bible, with its consonants, vowels, and cantillation marks, as developed by the Masoretes, a scribal school in Tiberias between the 6th and 9th centuries.)

 

This text is the Torah as we know it. We have a Greek translation of the Hebrew Torah that is well over 1000 years older that the Masoretic text. Of the manuscripts that we actually have, the Greek version, the Septuagint (sometimes referred to as the "LXX") is much closer in time to the original Torah. If there is a difference between the Septuagint text and the Hebrew Masoretic text, the Greek is not necessarily more valid simply because it is older. However when there are significant differences, the Greek version is given serious consideration.

 

(Septuagint. Jewish translation into Greek of the Hebrew Bible, beginning in the 3rd century B.C., to meet the needs of the Jewish community of Alexandria; this translation later became authoritative Scripture for the Church. In Latin, literally, "seventy"; according to legend it was composed by 72 Jewish scholars.)

 

In the Masoretic text, we read about Moses' parent in Exodus 6.20: "Amram took to wife his father's sister Jochebed, and she bore him Aaron and Moses." The Greek version of this verse reads: "Amram took to wife the daughter of his father's brother." Why would anyone present a different version of that verse? Probably because the Septuagint translators could not accept the idea that, by the standards of other parts of the Torah, Moses was born out of an incestuous union.

 

Thus for example we read in Leviticus 18.12: "Do not uncover the nakedness of your father's sister, she is your father's flesh." The Greek version has Amram marrying his cousin, but the Masoretic text states that Amram married his aunt. Historically speaking, Amram could not have known the prohibition expressed in Leviticus. But it is difficult to think of Moses as the product of a union that he himself will later call an abomination, especially for a religious person.

 

So the Geek version subtly makes a dogmatic correction in its translation of the verse. This example shows how the slightest divergence in a reading can change a point or avoid difficulties in a text. Because of variant readings, it is a useful method of study to examine all early versions of the Biblical text in our search for every possible meaning.

 

 

SOURCE CRITICISM

 

The Torah may seem to present a unified account of Israelite history and Law during the patriarchal and Mosaic periods. Detailed study of the text, however, has led modern critical scholarship to theorize that the Torah is a compilation from several sources, different streams of literary traditions that were composed and collected over the course of the Biblical period (1200-400 B.C). Because the Torah, in this perspective, is an amalgam of the works of different authors or schools, it contains an abundance of factual inconsistencies; contradictory regulations; and differences in style, vocabulary, and even theology.

 

The names that are used for GOD have served as important clues in the separation and discovery of the sources that make up the Torah. The different names of GOD have led source-critical scholarship to find independent traditions, each of which uses the Divine name in different way. These traditions are independent of and contradict each other.

 

How does scholarship explain all of these variations? Different theories have emerged to explain the divergences along theological, geographical, and chronologic lines. Thus there may be a northern and southern versions of the same story, which would account for inconsistencies. The stories were written over the course of centuries and reflect an evolutionary process that incorporated interpretations and additions as the text developed.

 

There is great agreement among scholars that the Torah, the Pentateuch, in its final form, is a work composed and edited from four literary complexes.

 

1. The Yahwistic. The oldest of these is the Yahwistic source, designated by the letter J because it consistently uses the name YHVH (spelled "Jahweh" in German) and because of its special interest in places located in the southern kingdom of Judah. This tradition seems to have been written in the 10th century B.C.

 

2. The Elohistic source, designated E, is so named because of its use of the Divine name Elohim and its interest in the northern tribes, of which Ephraim was the most important. It probably was written between 900 and 800 B.C., presenting material parallel and supplementary to that found in J.

 

3. The Priestly source, designated P, uses the divine name El Shaddai (until Exodus 6) and contains a great many ritual texts. Scholars greatly disagree concerning the date when when this source was written. Some place is as early as J and E, but others posit a date as late as the Babylonian exile (6th century B.C.).

 

4. The Deuteronomic source, designated D, is considered to have been written later (8th to 6th century B.C.). It reviews certain stories and presents legislation that sometimes differ from the first four Books. It is important to note that contradictions exist not only within narrative material but also with in the Laws of the Torah. For instance, Exodus 21.2-11 states that a male slave should be released after six years of servitude. This Law, however, does not apply to female slaves (verse 7). In Deuteronomy 15.12, the same requirement of release is extended to both male and female slaves. Most scholars believe that the Torah was compile and edited by Priestly redactors in Babylonia between 600 and 400 B.C.

 

Etz Hayim. Torah and Commentary.

 

 

Despite the fact that not only Torah, but the entire Bible as whole, went through so many transformations, translations, and copies, it is still very close to original meaning of the original text in its spirit and moral values that can be identified with GOD and with all human beings of godly nature, because it is perfectly fits to the Spirit and soul of all goodness and truth.

 

Concerning different denominational translations of the Bible and despite their different wordings, still, the meaning of each and every Book and chapter of the Bible very well preserved. I have several different Bible for cross-reference, and while some of the sentences written differently in different Bibles, still, the source and the essence of the meaning very well preserved.

 

So I thing it should put to the end some debates and arguments about which Bible we should trust, or which one of them better than others. But I have to admit, that certain Bibles went quite far from the main stream acceptable and canonized translations, and in my point of view do not represent the true Word of GOD. For example, comparing my several Bibles with GNB Bible (Good News Bible), it is obvious to me that GNB Bible, due to its context, does not represent true originality of the Holy Scripture and cannot present itself as the Word of GOD.

 

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