GOD HAS NOT CAST AWAY HIS PEOPLE ISRAEL

[Guest shiloh357]

37 minutes ago, secretopossumcabal said:

I wont respond to shiloh but because people are reading this, I'm going to tell you folks this, be very careful because Satan has already set the theme: There were fake prophets, there were fake Jews (the pharisees), there is a fake Israel (Babylon), and there will be (and have been) fake Christs (the antichrists), and therefor fake Christians.

And you would be one of the fake Christians.   No one  could harbor such hate for Jews to malign them in such a manner and claim to belong to Jesus.   You need salvation
 

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Now revelation warned you of the ones who claim they are Jews (but do lie) in Revelation 3:9.

 

That was only referring to the Jews in Sardis, not all Jewish people.   Stop using the Bible as fuel for your racist lies.

 

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Will you place you faith in the ones that claim to be blood Jews, or in the son of man who is the true son of Abraham? (Galatians 3:16)ti

Our faith is in Jesus, Jesus the Jew, the Messiah of the Jewish people whom you despise.   You cannot hate the Jews but claim to love the King of the Jews.  Your posts are Anathema (cursed of God).

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I tell you folks this: Trust in Jesus, that's ALL you have to do. Only through him do the Children of Abraham exist. That is what it means to be a Jew, revelation has already warned you about the ones that claim to be Jews. Be on your guard, not all is at it seems, it was a conspiracy against Christ back then, now it is a conspiracy against Christians. No servant is greater than their master. 

There was no conspiracy against Jesus, but you have posted lies from anti-Semite, Neo-Nazi sites and promoted racist conspiracies against the Jews.

All true Christians need to steer clear of secretopossumcabal.  His posts are poisonous and unchristian.

Edited May 13, 2018 by shiloh357

[secretopossumcabal]

19 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

The problem with what you are saying is spiritualizing that which God did not! Note: a rethink on your approach to God's Word both in creative format and then written format upon which He verified this truth through parables... It takes a great deal of work to be in the light as God is in The Light... do the work, keep the distinctions God has set forth in His Word, and proclaim that truth only! We are to assess the spiritual nature of all that comes to us by His Word both creative and written =for they are not in disunity! Shiloh knows this and proclaims as such, yet you are rejecting him in this effort and is quite telling to the rest of us who do also this work...

Once again: The covenant made to Abraham was a spiritual covenant -- the promise of Jesus Christ -- Because faith CANNOT live in the blood, Abraham was exceptional because of his BELIEF -- not blood. The world has taught you what the pharisees who control this world have taught you; the lie they have manufactured is to make "belief" mean the flesh, so they can make themselves anointed through blood in the eyes of gullible Christians, which is precisely what the pharisees did to Christ's face, but Christ was smart to the fact that their outward appearance was a deception, and Cleverly Christ trapped them in that belief "You build tombs for the prophets, but it was your fathers who killed them. So you are witnesses who consent to the deeds of your fathers: They killed the prophets, and you build their tombs.".  This is why God trimmed the branches of the Tree of Israel, as Israel grew and bore children, children fell away from Israel because FAITH doesn't live in the blood.  

For God to put faith in the blood is for God to Force someone to love him, for God to force someone to love him is the very opposite of love. So here we see that Galatians is precisely correct when it says that the promise made to Abraham is the Christ, which one must come to WILLINGLY out of their own FREE WILL and with ALL your heart. No-one is born believing that Jesus is Lord, for God wants the love to be mutual and not forced, and for it to be mutual it must not involve force. What the pharisees have taught you has no legs to stand on even from a philosophical standpoint when you ask "What is love"?  

"Do not presume to say 'we have Abraham as our father' For out of these stones God can raise children for Abraham" Matthew 3:9  Thus proclaiming what the Lord has already taught through the prophets: the just shall live by faith.   

Faith is belief, it isn't your genes. So the New testament further illuminates what the prophets have already illuminated, the Just shall live by FAITH.

EVERYTHING flows through that -- through Christ -- there are NO exceptions, we're justified through Christ. He is without a doubt the beginning and the end of the matter, the alpha and the omega. Does that sound antisemitic to you? Probably to the pharisees, but certainly not to me. 

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, secretopossumcabal said:

Once again: The covenant made to Abraham was a spiritual covenant -- the promise of Jesus Christ -- Because faith CANNOT live in the blood, Abraham was exceptional because of his BELIEF -- not blood.

actually it was a land covenant as well. (Gen. 17:, 8-9)

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The world has taught you what the pharisees who control this world have taught you;

Ah again, the Nazi lie that the Jews control the world...

 

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Does that sound antisemitic to you? Probably to the pharisees, but certainly not to me. 

Everything you say in this thread is anti-Semitic.

 

[George]

On 5/13/2018 at 7:37 AM, secretopossumcabal said:

Because faith CANNOT live in the blood, Abraham was exceptional because of his BELIEF -- not blood.

Do you believe that Romans 11, in speaking of Jews -- physical descendants of Abraham -- will be regrafted into the Kingdom of God in the future through Jesus Christ?

What I'm speaking of specifically is --

Rom 11:1  I say then, Did not God put away His people? Let it not be said! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 
Rom 11:2  God did not thrust out His people whom He foreknew.

Rom 11:17  And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and became a sharer of the root and the fatness of the olive tree with them, 
Rom 11:18  do not boast against the branches. But if you boast, it is not you that bears the root, but the root bears you. 
Rom 11:19  You will say then, The branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in. 
Rom 11:20  Well, because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be high-minded, but fear. 
Rom 11:21  For if God did not spare the natural branches, fear lest He also may not spare you either! 
Rom 11:22  Behold then the kindness, and the severity of God; on those having fallen, severity; but on you, kindness, if you continue in the kindness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 
Rom 11:23  And those also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in. For God is able to graft them in again. 
Rom 11:24  For if you were cut out of the natural wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree; how much more these being according to nature will be grafted into their own olive-tree? 
Rom 11:25  For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, lest you should be wise within yourselves; that blindness in part has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the nations has comes in. 

Rom 11:26  And so all Israel shall be saved; as it is written, "There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob. 
Rom 11:27  For this is My covenant with them, when I have taken away their sins." 

Awaiting your reply.

Your brother in the Lord with much agape love,

George

[secretopossumcabal]

55 minutes ago, George said:

Do you believe that Romans 11, in speaking of Jews -- physical descendants of Abraham -- will be regrafted into the Kingdom of God in the future through Jesus Christ?

What I'm speaking of specifically is --

Rom 11:1  I say then, Did not God put away His people? Let it not be said! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 
Rom 11:2  God did not thrust out His people whom He foreknew.

Rom 11:17  And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and became a sharer of the root and the fatness of the olive tree with them, 
Rom 11:18  do not boast against the branches. But if you boast, it is not you that bears the root, but the root bears you. 
Rom 11:19  You will say then, The branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in. 
Rom 11:20  Well, because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be high-minded, but fear. 
Rom 11:21  For if God did not spare the natural branches, fear lest He also may not spare you either! 
Rom 11:22  Behold then the kindness, and the severity of God; on those having fallen, severity; but on you, kindness, if you continue in the kindness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 
Rom 11:23  And those also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in. For God is able to graft them in again. 
Rom 11:24  For if you were cut out of the natural wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree; how much more these being according to nature will be grafted into their own olive-tree? 
Rom 11:25  For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, lest you should be wise within yourselves; that blindness in part has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the nations has comes in. 

Rom 11:26  And so all Israel shall be saved; as it is written, "There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob. 
Rom 11:27  For this is My covenant with them, when I have taken away their sins." 

Awaiting your reply.

Your brother in the Lord with much agape love,

George

Yes --The natural branches of the children of the kingdom can be grafted back in through belief. But if they continue in unbelief and rebel then there is no hope for them -- not all who are in Israel are of Israel, God doesn't promise to save them (whatever "them" means nowadays) because of their blood, for to be a Jew is to be circumcised in the heart and if you reject the almighty he isn't going to give ones blood special treatment, therefor as it has been written: "the children of the kingdom shall be cast out and there shall be gnashing of teeth". The remnant that shall be saved is the remnant that will believe, the tree that is faith and has always been about faith:

Rom 11:25-26  "For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, lest you should be wise within yourselves; that blindness in part has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the nations has comes in. and in this way all Israel will be saved." 

When the faithful are grafted into Israel through Jesus Christ, Israel therefor will accept the messiah, as they become Israel through belief! as is written:

"The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief corner stone." Psalm 118:22

Then Jesus Christ tells us: 

"Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit." Matthew 21:43

Jesus be with you,

Opossum

[George]

11 hours ago, secretopossumcabal said:

Yes --The natural branches of the children of the kingdom can be grafted back in through belief. But if they continue in unbelief and rebel then there is no hope for them -- not all who are in Israel are of Israel, God doesn't promise to save them (whatever "them" means nowadays) because of their blood, for to be a Jew is to be circumcised in the heart and if you reject the almighty he isn't going to give ones blood special treatment, therefor as it has been written: "the children of the kingdom shall be cast out and there shall be gnashing of teeth". The remnant that shall be saved is the remnant that will believe, the tree that is faith and has always been about faith:

Rom 11:25-26  "For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, lest you should be wise within yourselves; that blindness in part has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the nations has comes in. and in this way all Israel will be saved." 

When the faithful are grafted into Israel through Jesus Christ, Israel therefor will accept the messiah, as they become Israel through belief! as is written:

"The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief corner stone." Psalm 118:22

Then Jesus Christ tells us: 

"Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit." Matthew 21:43

Jesus be with you,

Opossum

Just so you know, there's nobody that has posted in opposition to you that believes the Jewish people will be restored without Jesus -- as everyone that has posted in this thread believes that the only way into the Kingdom is through Jesus -- as He so clearly said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life -- no man comes to the Father but through me!"

So there's no need to repeat their need for their own Messiah -- as everyone who's posted would agree with it.

The crux of the issue is the fact -- How can we participate in God's plan in restoring them into the Kingdom?

As the Bible clearly says, "Acts 3:21  whom Heaven truly needs to receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of His holy prophets since the world began."

So the Bible talks about RESTORING ALL things -- so now you have to figure out -- how is God restoring the Jewish people?

When you read how Jesus said in Matthew 23:37  O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to her, how often would I have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you would not! 
Mat 23:38  Behold, your house is left to you desolate. 
Mat 23:39  For I say to you, You shall not see Me from now on until you say, "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord." 

If you focus on Matthew 23:38 -- and focus on their desolation -- you'll miss verse 39 -- which says THEY WILL SAY -- "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!"

So the question is, how can you participate in their restoration?  Do you want to see them restored through their Messiah?

 

[OldCoot]

On 5/13/2018 at 6:14 AM, shiloh357 said:

That was only referring to the Jews in Sardis, not all Jewish people.   Stop using the Bible as fuel for your racist lies.

 

If I may add some input here.  Those references in Revelation regarding "those who claim to be Jews and are not" could well mean those who see a replacement theology as valid.  Now traditionally, many theologians have taken it the way you have, but we have to be wary of traditions.  A lot of theology was influenced by almost 1000 years of the Eastern and Western organized church.  And they were interlaced with replacement theology ideas.

I am not convinced that the letter to the Church in Sardis was speaking of even a limited number of Jews.  I am more convinced that it was referring to those who hold a replacement theology mindset.   But my opinion is just one in a sea of opinions.  

But one thing is certain without any ambiguity.  Corporate, national, literal Jacob (both Judah and Israel) must acknowledge their offense of rejecting Yeshua and petition for His return.... before He will return.   Yeshua said exactly that in Hosea and affirmed it in Matthew.  That fact alone should cause those to claim to know Yeshua to embrace the Jewish people and show Yeshua to them in both faith and action.  And it is, I believe, the main motivation for Satan's attempts to wipe Jews off the face of the earth.  

 

Edited September 13, 2018 by OldCoot

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, OldCoot said:

If I may add some input here.  Those references in Revelation regarding "those who claim to be Jews and are not" could well mean those who see a replacement theology as valid.

No, that is not possible because replacement theology was not in existence until the 4th century or so.

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 Now traditionally, many theologians have taken it the way you have, but we have to be wary of traditions.  A lot of theology was influenced by almost 1000 years of the Eastern and Western organized church.  And they were interlaced with replacement theology ideas.

This is not based on tradition.   It is based on the text itself.   It was written to Sardis and refers to the Jews there. That's pretty clear if you are honest about what the text says.

 

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I am not convinced that the letter to the Church in Sardis was speaking of even a limited number of Jews.  I am more convinced that it was referring to those who hold a replacement theology mindset.   But my opinion is just one in a sea of opinions.  

Well given that RT didn't exist at the time the letter was pinned, I think we can dispense with anything other than what the text tells us, that it was referring to the Jews of Sardis and possibly surrounding areas, but it has nothing to do with RT.

[OldCoot]

58 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

No, that is not possible because replacement theology was not in existence until the 4th century or so.

As an organized, compartmentalized theology, you could be right.  But animosity towards Jews has been since Abraham.   And the Church couldn't get out of the 1st Century before it was in deep trouble as evidenced by those 7 letters in Revelation, Corinthians, etc.  Paul even warned gentiles in Romans to not get too haughty about being grafted into the tree.... remember your place.  Paul understood the ways of man probably better than any other NT writer.  And likely the HS put it on him to warn those in the Church to not take liberties with identification.  

 

58 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

This is not based on tradition.   It is based on the text itself.   It was written to Sardis and refers to the Jews there. That's pretty clear if you are honest about what the text says.

I would disagree.  The text to Ephesus just before that stated 'those who claim to be Apostles but are not' is very similar.  Now, outsiders would not be claiming to be Apostles, but those from within.  You know.... the wolves in sheep's clothing idea that we were warned about in scripture?  The context is similar in the letter to Smyrna that follows which says 'those who claim to be Jews but are not'.  If it meant unbelieving non Jews who were claiming to be Jews, it would make no sense whatsoever. In most any culture in history, there has not been a move to identity as Jewish when one is not.  And why would there need to be an admonition to outline such a group that is outside the Churches in these letters?  Only within the Church have we seen this sort of thing.  

All of the letters are doctrinal in nature regarding things within the Church.   Jezebel, Nicolaitans, etc.  The flow is always about getting back on track doctrinally.  So it is very reasonable to assert that "those who claim to be Jews" is speaking to those in the fellowship and not outside.

Edited September 13, 2018 by OldCoot
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[Guest shiloh357]

18 minutes ago, OldCoot said:

As an organized, compartmentalized theology, you could be right.  But animosity towards Jews has been since Abraham.   And the Church couldn't get out of the 1st Century before it was in deep trouble as evidenced by those 7 letters in Revelation, Corinthians, etc.  Paul even warned gentiles in Romans to not get too haughty about being grafted into the tree.... remember your place.  Paul understood the ways of man probably better than any other NT writer.  And likely the HS put it on him to warn those in the Church to not take liberties with identification.  

That doesn't change the fact that RT didn't exist when Revelation was pinned.   One important principle of interpretation is that a passage cannot mean something today, that it didn't mean before. 

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I would disagree.  The text to Ephesus just before that stated 'those who claim to be Apostles but are not' is very similar.

Irrelevant.

 

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 The context is similar in the letter to Smyrna that follows which says 'those who claim to be Jews but are not'.  If it meant unbelieving non Jews who were claiming to be Jews, it would make no sense whatsoever. In most any culture in history, there has not been a move to identity as Jewish when one is not.  And why would there need to be an admonition to outline such a group that is outside the Churches in these letters?  Only within the Church have we seen this sort of thing.  

All of the letters are doctrinal in nature regarding within the Church.   Jezebel, Nicolaitans, etc.  The flow is always about getting back on track doctrinally.  So it is very reasonable to assert that "those who claim to be Jews" is speaking to those in the fellowship and not outside.

 

Again, none of that has anything to do with RT.   RT didnt' exist at the time, and trying to force something on to the text that isn't there is a sloppy and irresponsible approach to the Bible.   You just need to let the text interpret itself rather than trying to impose something on to it that isn't there.