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Age of the universe from Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe


Quasar93

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5 hours ago, Tristen said:

The above remarks are the epitome of those with their heads in the sand and views cast in iron

This remark is an example of an Ad-Hominem fallacy – and therefore technically irrational.

 

our claim the preponderance of proofs provided you are "alleged," is a joke

This remark is an example of an Appeal to Ridicule fallacy – and therefore technically irrational.

 

as though the evidence in front of you is all false

What “evidence”? You haven't provided any “evidence” for my consideration. I've stated several times that I'd be happy to discuss any specific fact you think obligates one away from the clear reading of Genesis.

 

You are the one who wants a discussion, but you have nothing to say, but personal opinion, from an empty wagon

You are the one who started the thread. All I've asked for is for you to provide your own argument for your position – so I know you've done your own due diligence on the issues raised. As it stands, all I can ascertain is that you've found someone who agrees with you, and pasted their arguments. You've dumped a lot of information on this thread. It is not reasonable to expect me to spend the amount of time required to mount a point-by-point response to all that information – especially when I have no indication from you that you have invested any time considering the issue.

That is the point of the Elephant Hurling fallacy – to bombard the opposing position with so much information as to try and bully them out of the conversation. I assume people start threads for the purpose of discussion. But if you don't want “a discussion”, if you just want people to read and accept your position, then I am happy to move on.

 

I have provided you the format, now field an argument of your views, with evidence for a young earth

If I want to discuss something creation-specific, I'll start my own thread. But this is your thread. So I've asked for a narrowing of the topic, and evidence that you have more invested than the two minutes it took to cut and paste the various walls of text.

 

Until you do, this is my final response to you on this issue.

Until your are prepared to provide your own arguments to clarify your own position, there is little point to any further response.

 

It is your responsibility to prove the evidence of an old earth I posted is false.  The ducking and dodging you keep doing doesn't fly!  Review the following for more evidence for an old earth age:

IN AN AGE PRIOR TO THE SIX DAY CREATION THE EARTH HAD NO OCEANS

 

The same way it will be when God creates the New Heaven and earth:

 

Rev.21:1 }Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”

 

Pr.8:22 "The Lord brought me forth as the first of His works, before His deeds of old; I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. When there were no oceans, I was given birth, [Vs 22-24] NIV*


when there were no springs abounding with water; before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, before He made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world." [Vs 24-26] NIV*

I was there when He set the heavens in place, when He marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, when He established the clouds above and fixed securly the fountains of the deep, [Vs 27-28] NIV*

when He gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep His command, and when He marked out the foundations of the earth.Then I was the craftsman at His side. I was filled with delight day after day, [Vs 29-30] NIV*

rejoicing always in His presence, rejoicing in His whole world and delighting in mankind. Now then my sons, listen to me; blessed are those who keep my ways. Listen to my instruction and be wise; do not ignore it. [Vs 30-33] NIV*

Blessed is the man who listens to me, watching daily at my doors, waiting at my doorway. For whoever finds me finds life and receives favor from the Lord. But whoever fails to find me harms himself; all who hate me love death." [Vs 34-36] NIV

For much more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal
 
 
 

 

Quasar93

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2 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

It is your responsibility to prove the evidence of an old earth I posted is false.  The ducking and dodging you keep doing doesn't fly!  Review the following for more evidence for an old earth age:

IN AN AGE PRIOR TO THE SIX DAY CREATION THE EARTH HAD NO OCEANS

 

The same way it will be when God creates the New Heaven and earth:

 

Rev.21:1 }Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”

 

Pr.8:22 "The Lord brought me forth as the first of His works, before His deeds of old; I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. When there were no oceans, I was given birth, [Vs 22-24] NIV*

when there were no springs abounding with water; before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, before He made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world." [Vs 24-26] NIV*
I was there when He set the heavens in place, when He marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, when He established the clouds above and fixed securly the fountains of the deep, [Vs 27-28] NIV*
when He gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep His command, and when He marked out the foundations of the earth.Then I was the craftsman at His side. I was filled with delight day after day, [Vs 29-30] NIV*
rejoicing always in His presence, rejoicing in His whole world and delighting in mankind. Now then my sons, listen to me; blessed are those who keep my ways. Listen to my instruction and be wise; do not ignore it. [Vs 30-33] NIV*
Blessed is the man who listens to me, watching daily at my doors, waiting at my doorway. For whoever finds me finds life and receives favor from the Lord. But whoever fails to find me harms himself; all who hate me love death." [Vs 34-36] NIV
 

Quasar93

It is your responsibility to prove the evidence of an old earth I posted is false.

Firstly, you didn't provide any actual “evidence”. What you provided was a massive information dump of summary claims about the evidence. If you have such confidence in your position that you can label my position a “joke”, then you should be able to muster a few facts which cannot be logically interpreted to be consistent with young-earth, Biblical creation.

Secondly, I did not claim anything to be “false”. I claimed that there is no objective scientific reason to dismiss the Genesis account of history – as written; i.e. without the need to resort to additional concepts that are not found explicitly in the text.

 

The ducking and dodging you keep doing doesn't fly!

I have neither ducked nor dodged anything. I have simply asked you for your own arguments in a reasonable amount of information to respond to – rather than expecting me to spend days trawling through, and responding to, your minute's worth of cutting and pasting. I could just as readily point you to a creationist web site and claim its your responsibility to respond to every one of their claims. But as you might say, that “doesn't fly”. We are engaging in conversation with each other. It is therefore each of our own responsibilities to give our own account of our position.

 

IN AN AGE PRIOR TO THE SIX DAY CREATION THE EARTH HAD NO OCEANS The same way it will be when God creates the New Heaven and earth:

I don't think the scriptures you provided make this case. Revelations 21:1 certainly says there was “no more sea” - but, as you understand, that is speaking of the new earth. Proverbs 21 is a discourse from the personified perspective of Wisdom – claiming that Wisdom dwelt with God in eternity; i.e. before the creation of the earth (verse 23), and so obviously before the the forming of the oceans (verse 24) which Genesis tells us He accomplished on the second and third days of creation (Gen 1:6-9).

I think you have to read an awful lot into these verses (i.e. ideas which don't actually exist in the text) to come away with the conclusion that there was “AN AGE PRIOR TO THE SIX DAY CREATION THE EARTH HAD NO OCEANS ” based on this evidence.

 

For much more: ...

I'm not going to follow your links to more of other people's arguments. That's no different than expecting me to respond to your cut and paste job. You tell me what you think the facts are, and what you think those facts mean, and how they dispel the possibility of the Genesis account of history. Then I will follow any links you provide to the research, and assess the claims for myself – i.e. not someone else's claims about the research, but the primary report of the facts (if you have access - if not, I might be able to track the information down myself).

 

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