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I am sure that many new Christians come onto Worthy scratching their heads. All the new Christian needs is the basics. People go down rabbit trails at times on Worthy with topics that are confusing and do not pertain to the basics. New Christians should be concerned with:

1. Who is God?

2. Who is Jesus Christ?

3. Who is the Holy Spirit?

4. What is the Holy Trinity?

5. What is salvation?

6. How can I be sure I am saved?

7. How can I be sure I am saved if I do not feel any different?

8. What happens to a person once they die?

9. What if I sin again?

10. Do I need to join a Church?

11. What is the fruit of the Holy Spirit and why is that important?

 

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Missmuffett's rules of order?

Here I thought it was just said all that need be done is sit back and let Jesus do what is necessary to be done.

Now there seems to be a precise set of rules to follow, and no others to be discussed.

If Jesus is to lead and I am to sit back, then why do I need a precise set of orders plus limits on what I am to learn, from any poster at all?

Oh, it's all so very confusing....

.

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1 minute ago, Neighbor said:

Missmuffett's rules of order?

Here I thought it was just said all that need be done is sit back and let Jesus do what is necessary to be done.

Now there seems to be a precise set of rules to follow, and no others to be discussed.

If Jesus is to lead and I am to sit back, then why do I need a precise set of orders plus limits on what I am to learn, from any poster at all?

.

Missmuffett's rules of order? This makes it seem like you are on the defense. We certainly want to show those new Christians how brothers and sisters in Christ relate to one another.....right???

Just some suggestions to help those who come to Worthy who are new Christians. I sure had a lot of questions when I first became a Christian and I did not know who to trust to get advise.

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44 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Missmuffett's rules of order?

Here I thought it was just said all that need be done is sit back and let Jesus do what is necessary to be done.

Now there seems to be a precise set of rules to follow, and no others to be discussed.

If Jesus is to lead and I am to sit back, then why do I need a precise set of orders plus limits on what I am to learn, from any poster at all?

Oh, it's all so very confusing....

.

Come on Neighbor, give her a break. As a spectator outside the arena, you can see miss m is doing what she is lead to possibly direct new believers. She's trying (positive) Your criticizing (negative)
No, there's no rules. But why not a little help,
my friend.
I thought it was a cool list. Why not add your thoughts to the list.

Mine..........

12. How to abide in Christ.

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42 minutes ago, Yowm said:

13. Realize, trials, hard times and persecutions will come, it is not all a rosy path in this life.

That is good. Anyone else who wants to add to the basic questions that a new believer may have is welcome.

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1 hour ago, Gary Lee said:

Come on Neighbor, give her a break. As a spectator outside the arena, you can see miss m is doing what she is lead to possibly direct new believers. She's trying (positive) Your criticizing (negative)
No, there's no rules. But why not a little help,
my friend.
I thought it was a cool list. Why not add your thoughts to the list.

Mine..........

12. How to abide in Christ.

Good. And thanks for the support Gary. :)

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15 hours ago, missmuffet said:

I am sure that many new Christians come onto Worthy scratching their heads. All the new Christian needs is the basics. People go down rabbit trails at times on Worthy with topics that are confusing and do not pertain to the basics. New Christians should be concerned with:

1. Who is God?

2. Who is Jesus Christ?

3. Who is the Holy Spirit?

4. What is the Holy Trinity?

5. What is salvation?

6. How can I be sure I am saved?

7. How can I be sure I am saved if I do not feel any different?

8. What happens to a person once they die?

9. What if I sin again?

10. Do I need to join a Church?

11. What is the fruit of the Holy Spirit and why is that important?

 

I am against the "rules makers" when it comes to their declaring  parameters for what  anyone is to be learning or asking about, or sharing for that matter. That  is very much like having a "priest" between lay people and God. Or much like having a priest approved list of movies or books that can be read or that are taboo.  So, I think it a very bad idea  to try to limit what can be discussed with  a unbeliever or a new believer about the Bible, for all of the Bible is man's inspired of God record, all good for instruction.

If I look at the questions in the  "Outer Court" do those individuals and their questions really fit into a list of eleven topics set up much as a cut and past type list for them to select from or be steered into?  I don't think so.  Do I respond to them with; sorry pick a subject from this list of eleven and we can discuss, but not anything else? I don't think so. I should be able to take on any subject of interest, not just eleven I have on a Christian cheat sheet or play book.  The response, well I don't know never realized that  would be an issue in my own life , but let's se what we might find together within the word of God on  that problem  - subject - challenge. Might be a fuller way to encourage a new Christian or an unbeliever.

It also seems to me that I should not be putting on priestly garments of authority over what another may be told about God's word and application of it. If I were limited to these twelve points as an unbeliever I would still not be a believer in Jesus as my Lord and savior.

I suggest that it is precisely the limiting of one's curiosity and the channeling of it, or attempt to do so, that makes most Christian tracts a rather useless by comparison substitute for real interplay between any Christian witness and any person that has not yet  come to know Jesus as their Lord.

The Holy Spirit presented this former unbeliever with  the last page of chapter eleven  and the first page of chapter twelve of the Book of Job on me.  I don't see start with the book of Job on anyone's list of good Bible tracts. None the less Job was the  perfect vehicle for leading me to read as a challenge from the non existent god. The entire Book of Job as my own first Bible reading.

At the time I had lost two family members, a life's career, had upset  and moved my immediate family 2800 miles,  had eleven new to me limited partners  to contend with, a failing hotel business in a bad economy to learn, and was in the process of trying to fight through five years of civil court battles as a partial list of issues to deal with.  By the end of that experience I had used up years of my life, lost a large share of over two million dollars, had gone through all my own personal asset, and  was without a career. The Book of Job made my issues seem like  triviality by comparison, that contrasting comparison it gave me the interest in god and led to me understanding there is God!

If the Holy Spirit had led someone to  hand me a tract on four spiritual laws it would have been trashed by me immediately. But the Book of job within a Gideon Bible, one of one hundred and fifty of them in the hotel's rooms, one in each room, well that is what God choose to make a vehicle to get my attention as to my need.

That is on a very personal experience level why  I think it a serious error to declare what God should use through His witnesses as His material to share with an unbeliever to get a person's attention. I think it an error to let one's self  only share with an unbeliever from a short list of tract like subjects.

Let God lead, yes, but don't play priest of God by putting self between what God will use and what He will not share. Be the witness, give personal testimony, but also share of the availability of the entirety of God's word confessing that it is vast and often reveals newly  what God wills for us. So perhaps we could work through the questions asked, together for mutual benefit.

To my own way  of thinking that approach  will open conversation. At least it will have better chance of doing so, than  the idea we will only discuss these eleven topics so liten up as I espouse  on them alone.

Invite any question, don't worry about rabbits or their trails! Remember where the word of God led each of us, and be patient in presenting the word as it seems to apply to life, allowing the Holy Spirit to guide us to the keys of scripture, which are way more numerous than eleven topics.

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15 hours ago, Gary Lee said:

Come on Neighbor, give her a break. As a spectator outside the arena, you can see miss m is doing what she is lead to possibly direct new believers. She's trying (positive) Your criticizing (negative)
No, there's no rules. But why not a little help,
my friend.
I thought it was a cool list. Why not add your thoughts to the list.

Mine..........

12. How to abide in Christ.

Yes I can see, very clearly what she would do. She has limited confidence in the lead of the Holy Spirit, and in the ability of others, new believers especially. She feels the need of injecting a limit on what others may discuss out of a lack of her own confidence that God will use what God will use, And instead she thinks she must protect others from their own "follies" as she perceives them to be folly. I suggest that is wrong headed. Nothing against her personally, as I  am certain it is born of good intent, but everything against the mindset she is presently championing. I think it not an attitude limited to her, but one which we all may fall victim to  by our own lack of full confidence at some point in time in our own travel  through this journey.

 I believe God is sovereign. I believe the Holy Spirit is quite capable of steering a new vistor to Worthy, a new christian to anywhere for that matter. And, I know the Spirit uses all things to the good of those that believe on Jesus as Lord and savior. Since I know that  God has foreknown all that will come to belief,  and has predestined all of the flock given to Jesus,  I believe that  God is also sovereign over all the pathway that each of the saints travel  in their journey to salvation awareness and well as their walk in Christ. There need be no limiting of God's word from any of God's saints, before or during their travel through sanctification. As to adding to the list of now 12 I would add

13. make no lists that limits God in His calling out of the saints to Jesus via the Holy Spirit.  Have confidence that God gave others brains too.

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2 hours ago, Neighbor said:

 

I am against the "rules makers" when it comes to their declaring  parameters for what  anyone is to be learning or asking about, or sharing for that matter. That  is very much like having a "priest" between lay people and God. Or much like having a priest approved list of movies or books that can be read or that are taboo.  So, I think it a very bad idea  to try to limit what can be discussed with  a unbeliever or a new believer about the Bible, for all of the Bible is man's inspired of God record, all good for instruction.

Mat 28:19  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20  Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

This is to you, Neighbor, but more so to those young believers watching us, desiring to learn. (from our actions)

I do not speak for missmuffet. She did not "declare" any parameters. She did not act as a "priest" or insinuate that was an approved list. She recommended what new believers should be concerned with. It appeared to me (my opinion) that she had consideration of new young Christians, looking into this forum, seeking to learn/grow in knowledge/truth. I remember when my wife and I received Christ, and joined a church. We were totally ignorant of where to start. We were stuck in a couples class, which happened to be in  Revelations. Had no idea what everybody was talking about. Stuck in college level class, needing to be in the first grade. Like missmuffet said, the "basics". Good advice to a  new believer (again, MY opinion). You might wonder what/who prompted missmuffet to take the time to consider new believers and the challenges they would face. I don't. Actually, I think the very idea of trying to help new believers with our own experiences (like yours above with Job, Neighbor) was instructed by God. To teach. How will they learn. You say let the Holy Spirit teach. Amen! But what instruments does the Holy Spirit use? Could He have used missmuffet? I think so. The very thing you accuse mm of, you are guilty of. You posted YOUR RULES about how MM should/should not give guidelines to new believers, as that would limit the Holy Spirit, when in essence, you very well limit the Holy Spirit's prompting mm. This was obviously a moving of mm's spirit to consider all those lurkers watching on the sidelines, seeking truth, and watching, listening. Her idea didn't meet with your approval. Why not try to help, acknowledging God,  with your vast experience and understanding of how you learned as a new believer, your insights,  adding to the  "limited list", helping those lurkers  reading this to gain from your experience. Or better, give us what you would tell new believers what they can/should do to learn, where to start, what you believe would be some of the areas you personally benefited from. That would be positive, my brother.

2Ti_2:24  And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

Heb_5:12  For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Neighbor said:

I am against the "rules makers" when it comes to their declaring  parameters for what  anyone is to be learning or asking about, or sharing for that matter. That  is very much like having a "priest" between lay people and God. Or much like having a priest approved list of movies or books that can be read or that are taboo.  So, I think it a very bad idea  to try to limit what can be discussed with  a unbeliever or a new believer about the Bible, for all of the Bible is man's inspired of God record, all good for instruction.

If I look at the questions in the  "Outer Court" do those individuals and their questions really fit into a list of eleven topics set up much as a cut and past type list for them to select from or be steered into?  I don't think so.  Do I respond to them with; sorry pick a subject from this list of eleven and we can discuss, but not anything else? I don't think so. I should be able to take on any subject of interest, not just eleven I have on a Christian cheat sheet or play book.  The response, well I don't know never realized that  would be an issue in my own life , but let's se what we might find together within the word of God on  that problem  - subject - challenge. Might be a fuller way to encourage a new Christian or an unbeliever.

It also seems to me that I should not be putting on priestly garments of authority over what another may be told about God's word and application of it. If I were limited to these twelve points as an unbeliever I would still not be a believer in Jesus as my Lord and savior.

I suggest that it is precisely the limiting of one's curiosity and the channeling of it, or attempt to do so, that makes most Christian tracts a rather useless by comparison substitute for real interplay between any Christian witness and any person that has not yet  come to know Jesus as their Lord.

The Holy Spirit presented this former unbeliever with  the last page of chapter eleven  and the first page of chapter twelve of the Book of Job on me.  I don't see start with the book of Job on anyone's list of good Bible tracts. None the less Job was the  perfect vehicle for leading me to read as a challenge from the non existent god. The entire Book of Job as my own first Bible reading.

At the time I had lost two family members, a life's career, had upset  and moved my immediate family 2800 miles,  had eleven new to me limited partners  to contend with, a failing hotel business in a bad economy to learn, and was in the process of trying to fight through five years of civil court battles as a partial list of issues to deal with.  By the end of that experience I had used up years of my life, lost a large share of over two million dollars, had gone through all my own personal asset, and  was without a career. The Book of Job made my issues seem like  triviality by comparison, that contrasting comparison it gave me the interest in god and led to me understanding there is God!

If the Holy Spirit had led someone to  hand me a tract on four spiritual laws it would have been trashed by me immediately. But the Book of job within a Gideon Bible, one of one hundred and fifty of them in the hotel's rooms, one in each room, well that is what God choose to make a vehicle to get my attention as to my need.

That is on a very personal experience level why  I think it a serious error to declare what God should use through His witnesses as His material to share with an unbeliever to get a person's attention. I think it an error to let one's self  only share with an unbeliever from a short list of tract like subjects.

Let God lead, yes, but don't play priest of God by putting self between what God will use and what He will not share. Be the witness, give personal testimony, but also share of the availability of the entirety of God's word confessing that it is vast and often reveals newly  what God wills for us. So perhaps we could work through the questions asked, together for mutual benefit.

To my own way  of thinking that approach  will open conversation. At least it will have better chance of doing so, than  the idea we will only discuss these eleven topics so liten up as I espouse  on them alone.

Invite any question, don't worry about rabbits or their trails! Remember where the word of God led each of us, and be patient in presenting the word as it seems to apply to life, allowing the Holy Spirit to guide us to the keys of scripture, which are way more numerous than eleven topics.

My point Neighbor is that new Christians only need the basics. They need the truth. Or we will allow them to stumble and fall in their new faith. God does not like that.

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