do pretrib theology still believes Christians have to go through some persecution before rapture happens?

[JoeChan82]

21 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

It is the Bride being wed to the Bridegroom.

Here comes the bride - 

Revelation 21:9-10 ¶ And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

[Montana Marv]

6 minutes ago, JoeChan82 said:

Here comes the bride - 

Revelation 21:9-10 ¶ And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

The New Jerusalem is adorned as a Bride. So you think Jesus Christ is married to a city or building. Lol on that. So will you be a pillar, wall or road mix.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[JoeChan82]

2 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

The New Jerusalem is adorned as a Bride. So you think Jesus Christ is married to a city or building. Lol on that. So will you be a pillar, wall or road mix.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Very clever indeed. So do I ignore the verses I quoted, reinterpret the verses, spiritualize the verses, or make an analogy of the verses?

[Mike Mclees]

On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 12:28 AM, Daniel 11:36 said:

Amen

So your saying now its mid-trib rapture but still call it pre-trib? Making some progress  

[Mike Mclees]

On ‎5‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 8:36 PM, Abdicate said:

And yet, no one acknowledged Jesus' own words I quoted... persecution does NOT equal the great tribulation. But no one cares for the semantics, just their own beliefs. So it begs the question: who is worthy? "We're all saved so it doesn't matter" they say, but Jesus says otherwise as does Paul. "...thy soul shall be required of thee..." but "...Lord, Lord, have we not done all these things in your name?" He replies, "I don't know you, never have. Get away from me!" Yea, I didn't quote it correctly on purpose just to mess with the modern Pharisees. 

Its not innocent. How many believers today have fed a study diet of pre-trib? They  bought into it and ate the apple. All this time they have been told that when the peace treaty is signed  that starts seven years of persecution and wrath coming down on the poor souls that didn't make the first train out. I've heard every story in the book on how this is all going to play. Oh we don't have to worry about the antichrist because we all will be gone then. So many really believe this is how its going to be. now the story is different. Many may say the church has lied to them all these years and fall away.  That bad for business. if you know what I mean. Im sure they got yours money.

You can't change hats every time you turn around  if you believe what they taught you. An untruth is an untruth.  

A song comes to me from way back. "Im in with in crowed and I go where the in crowed goes". That's the world ain't it. They buy the next thing that comes around the corner and tickles their fancy. 

[Daniel 11:36]

No I am not saying anything of the kind .... the Lord will call for today's believers just before He brings is wrath and judgment upon a totally unbelieving world

Stop your silliness 

[Mike Mclees]

3 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

No I am not saying anything of the kind .... the Lord will call for today's believers just before He brings is wrath and judgment upon a totally unbelieving world

Stop your silliness 

Oh you must be post trib Now  ?  

[Diaste]

4 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

No I am not saying anything of the kind .... the Lord will call for today's believers just before He brings is wrath and judgment upon a totally unbelieving world

Stop your silliness 

Yes he will. About 6+ years into the last week. 

[Daniel 11:36]

No way to stop your interpretive debacle .... your are on a very bad track 

The Lord will never keep from saving the pre-tribilation church just before He brings His wrath and judgment upon a world of unbelief  [Revelation 3:10; Revelation 6:12-17]

Your assessment of scripture is totally debunked on this issue .... the biggest issue of today

And because of this your total teaching has been skewed

I am not going tell you again  

Edited June 4, 2018 by Daniel 11:36

[Diaste]

4 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

No way to stop your interpretive debacle .... your are on a very bad track 

The Lord will never keep from saving the pre-tribilation church just before He brings His wrath and judgment upon a world of unbelief  [Revelation 3:10; Revelation 6:12-17]

Your assessment of scripture is totally debunked on this issue .... the biggest issue of today

And because of this your total teaching has been skewed

I am not going tell you again  

The problem with pretrib doctrine is the false equivalency of God's wrath and great tribulation; they are not synonymous. For the doctrine to have validity they must be, but the only place where God's wrath and great tribulation are equivalent is in the pretrib doctrine. 

If anyone does the leg work required to truly search out the understanding of these things you would see a totally different picture. I understand facts fly in the face of dogma and that is bothersome to the pretrib doctrine. But it's not the facts that are as troubling as the conclusions resulting from those facts.

Rev 3:10, 'keep thee' Tragically misinterpreted by the pretrib doctrine based on the preconceived notion there MUST BE a pretrib rapture. If there MUST BE then all facts must prove this, problem is the facts are skewed, kneaded, twisted and bent into the desired shape before being trotted out to bolster the lie of the pretrib doctrine.

How does the following become a removal from one place to another? 

Rev 3:10, 'keep thee'

téreó: to watch over, to guard

Original Word: τηρέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: téreó
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-reh'-o)
Short Definition: I keep, guard, observe
Definition: I keep, guard, observe, watch over.

HELPS Word-studies

5083 tēréō (from tēros, "a guard") – properly, maintain (preserve); (figuratively) spiritually guard (watch),

This is a guard during and preservation during, not a removal.

2 Thess 2 'falling away' This is rebellion. Aphistemi is not the word used here. Even if it was it's not a departure from one place to another, it's a departure from an ideology. Again the pretrib doctrine must do logical gymnastics to make the facts fit the preconceived notion of MUST BE.

To wit:

apostasia: defection, revolt

Original Word: ἀποστασία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apostasia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: defection, apostasy
Definition: defection, apostasy, revolt.

HELPS Word-studies

646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, "stand") – properly, departure (implying desertion); apostasy – literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."

This is rebellion at worst and only slightly less abhorrent, it is a defection. Another tragic misinterpretation. I think worst of all the pretrib doctrine ignores the words of Jesus in Matt 24. In Matt 24 we have a gathering shown to us in great detail. Where is the great gathering of the vast group of a wholly righteous church of stunning purity? Where is that foretold in scripture in any detail?

Seriously, this pretrib gathering is a shattering event. 100's of millions gone suddenly, the world stands amazed at the disappearance of friends and family, Law Enforcement inundated and likely brought to a halt, millions of motorized vehicles of all types suddenly driverless; the world would be in shock. And no mention of this anywhere in scripture? Except of course in the delusion of a misguided doctrine, that is. So pretrib doctrine seems to prefer a gathering of a shadowy, implicit nature rather than the overt and explicit gathering as told to us by Jesus and Paul. 

And what about this:

1 Peter 4:17, "For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God:" 

The house of God is the congregation, the body of Christ, the Church. This is explicit testimony from Peter, who walked with Christ. Who are any of us to ignore this? Maybe there is a 'church age' a 'dispensation of grace' and the church has been established and grown over two millennia, I have my reservations about this, but there is no denying the house of God is the body of believers, the Body of Christ, the Church. Peter helped to established the church in many locales. Peter knew full well the very house of God, that he helped build, was first in line for judgment. "Judgment begins with US." 1 Peter 4:17, "and if [it] first [begin] at us,"

Oops, I didn't get that quite right. Judgment FIRST with us.  

So according to Peter, judgment first then a gathering. And according to Paul. And Jesus. And really just about everyone else, unless it's the western church. Then we simply want to endure our current tribulation of jobs and food, cars and sports, Netflix and fast food, until we are taken in a secret gathering that even scripture doesn't record.

Back to reality. 

The beast is coming. For us. Get ready in the spirit of truth. Trust in God. Pray.