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MyLordsServant

Is Judas in heaven

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Judas was a disciple of God, but later completely turned away from him, and it does not bode well for Judas.

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I agree with most peoples' take on this that he probably will not make it. However, without being bashed (you know who you are) for daring to posit another view. Until I read the OP I had not thought much about this, so I do not have a 'position' on this.
Here are a few thoughts.
 
The Lord descended to the dead to witness to them. 1 Pet 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

And the other point: "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do." As Yeshua hung on the cross in agony.

So it is not certain if ANY of the responsible parties for the death of God's Messiah will be lost forever.  The scriptures posted above (by others) definitely show us that Judas was considered the son of perdition and the gravest of sinners, but we do not know for sure if he was ever to be forgiven.

Edited by Justin Adams

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All who have died are in Heaven,just a matter of which side of the gulf....But from what you are asking,Judas repented

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On ‎24‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 10:44 AM, MyLordsServant said:

Is one of the thrones reserved for Judas? Or for the newly chosen 12th.

Why did Jesus say "YOU"(meaning inclusive of all disciples), if he knew Judas would be betray him.

"Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, in the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

God did allow the devil to enter Judas. Did he use him as a temporary tool in order for scripture to be fulfilled?

When Judas came to his senses, he did repent by returning the silver pieces, back to the priests. He acknowledged his sin.

He did commit suicide, but once saved always saved? I think any person in the right mind would want to kill themselves, after betraying the Son of God.

Peter denied Christ three times before men. What did Jesus say regarding being denied before men?

He said;

Matthew 10:33, But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

In Luke 22, we read that Peter denied Christ three times before men;

 Luke 22:57-61, And he denied him, saying, Woman, I know him not.
    58, And after a little while another saw him, and said, Thou art also of them. And Peter said, Man, I am not.
    59, And about the space of one hour after another confidently affirmed, saying, Of a truth this fellow also was with him: for he is a Galilaean.
    60, And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately, while he yet spake, the cock crew.
    61, And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.

Peter went out and wept bitterly and repented and he never hanged himself as Judas did.

    v. 62, And Peter went out, and wept bitterly.

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On 1/23/2018 at 6:11 PM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

I would think the 12th position, likely belongs to Paul, in as much as Jesus chose him. (As opposed to the eleven, electing Matthias through gambling.

Also, I think the saved (those who go to heaven) are Christians. We see also that:

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 1 John 2:19

From that, I am inclined to think that Judas, was never a believer to begin with. Believers persevere in their faith.

I don't know but you could be right? My thinking is, the original eleven plus the lot drawn for Matthias to replace Judas will be the twelve of  Revelation 21: 14. The reason I think that is I cor 15: 9.

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3 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

I don't know but you could be right? My thinking is, the original eleven plus the lot drawn for Matthias to replace Judas will be the twelve of  Revelation 21: 14. The reason I think that is I cor 15: 9.

yet, 1 Cor 15:9 says:

I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

What I see there, is that Paul does not day he is not an apostle, infact, he specifically states that he is the least of them.

Then in that same book, he also says:

"Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God" 1:1

I Cor 9:1 Paul says: "Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not the result of my work in the Lord?"

He says that also that in Romans Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle
and set apart for the gospel of God 1:1

So, there are 4 case, where Paul declares himself to be an apostle, including  the very verse that that you say is you reason for doubting if he is one of the  twelve.

Paul was chosen, personally by Jesus Himself, Matthias was not. Paul was accepted by the other apostles. An apostle is a "sent one". Paul certainly fulfilled that calling, starting and leading many many churches, people are still being lead the the Lord by Paul's teachings. Paul wrote half of the new testament. What exactly, did Matthias do, do you know?

 

 

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"

Paul was chosen, personally by Jesus Himself, Matthias was not. Paul was accepted by the other apostles. An apostle is a "sent one". Paul certainly fulfilled that calling, starting and leading many many churches, people are still being lead the the Lord by Paul's teachings. Paul wrote half of the new testament. What exactly, did Matthias do, do you know?"

.

Judas was a chosen disciple who was to be a ruler over one of the twelve tribes of Israel as the others will be during the Millennium and beyond. Sadly Judas, after his sin of betrayal of Jesus and failing to repent, brooding over his sin and hanging himself, he, "by transgression fell" from his bishoprick.

The remaining eleven appointed two, Joseph and Matthias, and prayed, and said, "Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen," and they then drew lots, and the lot fell on Matthias.

Acts 1:20-16, , For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
    21, Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
    22, Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
    23, And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
    24, And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
    25, That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
    26, And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles. 

Mathias will rule over one of the tribes of Israel in Judas's place. He was chosen by Christ as verse 24 shows.

 

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12 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Acts 1:20-16, , For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
    21, Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
    22, Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
    23, And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
    24, And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
    25, That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
    26, And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles. 

Mathias will rule over one of the tribes of Israel in Judas's place. He was chosen by Christ as verse 24 shows.

No, I am not seeing that at all! Verse 24 just says, that is what the disciples prayed, it does not say, that the prayer was answered r granted. We are told that you can ask anything in His name, and it will be granted, IF it is according to God's will. Perhaps it was not God's will, where as we are certain that it was God's will for Saul of Tarsus, to become the apostle Paul, because Jesus chose him.

It is not a great idea to read into scripture, things that are not there. Eisegesis is not as good, as exegesis.

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Judas may have walked physically along with Jesus and the other disciples, but he never truly followed  Him nor believed what Jesus preached. And right up until the end, Judas Iscariot kept trying to do things his own way: from pilfering the money box, to scorning the woman who anointed Jesus with expensive perfume, to betraying the Lord to the Sanhedrin (Jewish ruling council that had Jesus arrested), Judas demonstrated that the only path he wanted to walk was his own.

When Judas heard that Jesus was to be condemned and executed, his plan had apparently not gone as he thought it would. And when he tried to do something and was essentially "locked out" of affecting the course of history any further, rather than confess his guilt and repent, he took his own life. Instead of taking responsibility, he chose instead to remove himself from any accountability whatsoever. While it is possible that Judas didn't believe in an afterlife and thought the kingdom would be an earthly one, seeing fit to annihilate himself utterly (so he thought), that is at best mere speculation on my part.

 My point in all of this is to point out that Judas' behavior and attitude does not seem to reflect a repentant one; i.e. he did not take responsibility for his sin and come to the Lord in repentant faith. Instead, he manipulated people and events subltely, and when they backfired, did his best to remove himself from any accountability. This is the epitome of the rebellious, sinful attitude Satan exuded since his rebellion millennia ago, and one that has been repeated in humanity since the fall. So, no: I'm afraid that Judas Iscariot is not in heaven, nor does there seem to be any hope for him in eternity.

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17 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

yet, 1 Cor 15:9 says:

I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

What I see there, is that Paul does not day he is not an apostle, infact, he specifically states that he is the least of them.

Then in that same book, he also says:

"Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God" 1:1

I Cor 9:1 Paul says: "Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not the result of my work in the Lord?"

He says that also that in Romans Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle
and set apart for the gospel of God 1:1

So, there are 4 case, where Paul declares himself to be an apostle, including  the very verse that that you say is you reason for doubting if he is one of the  twelve.

Paul was chosen, personally by Jesus Himself, Matthias was not. Paul was accepted by the other apostles. An apostle is a "sent one". Paul certainly fulfilled that calling, starting and leading many many churches, people are still being lead the the Lord by Paul's teachings. Paul wrote half of the new testament. What exactly, did Matthias do, do you know?

 

 

Yes I agree with everything you're said, Paul was an Apostle, a major one if not the most used by the Lord. Whom would even think Paul wasn't an Apostle? I'm just basing my thoughts on what Paul said of himself, and he wasn't one of the original twelve. And yes, little is known of Matthias, but he still constituted the 12th Apostle and the twelve we then complete. If Matthias isn't included in the twelve foundations of the New Jerusalem in Revelation, where did he go?

Ro 1:1 ¶ Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

In addition to what I mentioned above, Romans 1: 1 could mean Paul was separated and distinct from the other twelve Apostles. As he was the Apostle to the gentiles? 

Again I'm by no means belittling Paul, or his significance, appointment by Jesus Himself, his great sufferings for the Lord or his accomplishments. Personally, of all the Apostle's, he's the one I'd like to meet first and talk to in heaven.

So, if the Apostle Paul is one of the twelve foundations, what about Matthias? 
 

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