Unfailing Presence Posted January 26, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 170 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/26/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 26, 2018 18 hours ago, Mike Mclees said: Pardon my correction here. Great tribulation is the time saints will suffer persecution by the antichrist 3 1/2 yrs but for the elects sake those days shall be shortened Math 24:15 Well of course , because the world's Christians have enjoyed such comfort up until now . At least in the soft -headed minds of spoiled , pampered , isolated , Americans with no clue of what goes on in the world , whose idea of persecution is a nativity display no longer being put up . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightShinesInTheDarkness Posted January 26, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 426 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 398 Days Won: 3 Joined: 01/20/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Mike Mclees said: Pardon my correction here. Great tribulation is the time saints will suffer persecution by the antichrist 3 1/2 yrs but for the elects sake those days shall be shortened Math 24:15 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)24:15 1 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened. 23 Mt 24:21-23 Tribulations have been with the church since it began and will be until the abomination of desolation 3 1/2 yrs after the 7 yr peace accord Daniel 9:27. Then comes great tribulation. Revelation 15 then shows the True bride in heaven standing on a sea of glass after suffering the antichrist which right after comes Gods wrath poured out. This is what Rev 3: 10 is saying. The hour of temptation that shall come apon the earth to try the ungodly. The test is for the saints who dwell on the earth, not for unsaved people. Unsaved people have no need of testing; they have no faith to test. God will be testing His own people during this time and executing judgments of His wrath on unsaved people. (Revelation 3:10 KJV, ESV; 11:1,2 ESV; 13:10, 14:12 ESV) Edited January 26, 2018 by LightShinesInTheDarkness 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Mclees Posted January 26, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 158 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 1,915 Content Per Day: 0.80 Reputation: 910 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, LightShinesInTheDarkness said: The test is for the saints who dwell on the earth, not for unsaved people. Unsaved people have no need of testing; they have no faith to test. God will be testing His own people during this time and executing judgments of His wrath on unsaved people. (Revelation 3:10 KJV, ESV; 11:1,2 ESV; 13:10, 14:12 ESV) Yes there is a testing of the saints for not taking the mark. We see them in Rev 15. having with stood the antichrist How ever Rev 3:10 refers to the judgment that shall try the whole world; This is not talking about the saints that have already have been taken to heaven for having got the victory over the Beast. Temptation in the text is the wrath of God to try the whole world of the ungodly. Just as Paul said in I Thess. 1:10 Edited January 26, 2018 by Mike Mclees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightShinesInTheDarkness Posted January 26, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 426 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 398 Days Won: 3 Joined: 01/20/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said: Yes there is a testing of the saints for not taking the mark. We see them in Rev 15. having with stood the antichrist How ever Rev 3:10 refers to the judgment that shall try the whole world; This is not talking about the saints that have already have been taken to heaven for having got the victory over the Beast. Temptation in the text is the wrath of God to try the whole world of the ungodly Why would God test unsaved people? What for? He's going to send them a strong delusion so that they believe the lie that the antichrist is God as judgment for their rejection of the gospel, and rain judgments down on them. It's not testing; it's judgment. The other scriptures that speak about the saints on earth during the Tribulation confirm that the testing is for His own people---God's worshipers on earth---the outer court of the heavenly temple. There won't be any saints raptured away from the Tribulation; if they leave this world before the last day when Jesus returns it will be through martyrdom. The saints who are in heaven now are the ones who have conquered the dragon---Satan--not the antichrist, by the power of the blood of the Lamb and loving not their lives unto death. (Romans 8:35-37) They are mentioned as an example for those who are to follow in their footsteps during the Tribulation, who will also have to conquer the dragon (Satan, who will be inhabiting the person of the antichrist during that time) just as the saints in heaven conquered Satan during their time. Much of the confusion about who is in heaven and who is on earth during the Tribulation and how they got there results from both a belief in a pre-Tribulation rapture (which is a false teaching/myth/lie) and a misunderstanding of the time and place of the thousand-year reign of the saints with Christ. But comparing scripture with scripture, with God-given discernment, can clear this up. Without His help, I don't know that it can be done; He must enable us to understand the meaning of the scriptures and bring them together for us. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unfailing Presence Posted January 26, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 170 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/26/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 26, 2018 4 hours ago, LightShinesInTheDarkness said: Why would God test unsaved people? What for? He's going to send them a strong delusion so that they believe the lie that the antichrist is God as judgment for their rejection of the gospel, and rain judgments down on them. It's not testing; it's judgment. The other scriptures that speak about the saints on earth during the Tribulation confirm that the testing is for His own people---God's worshipers on earth---the outer court of the heavenly temple. There won't be any saints raptured away from the Tribulation; if they leave this world before the last day when Jesus returns it will be through martyrdom. The saints who are in heaven now are the ones who have conquered the dragon---Satan--not the antichrist, by the power of the blood of the Lamb and loving not their lives unto death. (Romans 8:35-37) They are mentioned as an example for those who are to follow in their footsteps during the Tribulation, who will also have to conquer the dragon (Satan, who will be inhabiting the person of the antichrist during that time) just as the saints in heaven conquered Satan during their time. Much of the confusion about who is in heaven and who is on earth during the Tribulation and how they got there results from both a belief in a pre-Tribulation rapture (which is a false teaching/myth/lie) and a misunderstanding of the time and place of the thousand-year reign of the saints with Christ. But comparing scripture with scripture, with God-given discernment, can clear this up. Without His help, I don't know that it can be done; He must enable us to understand the meaning of the scriptures and bring them together for us. Quite telling that in virtually every post- tribulation , last days, confused rambling you read you will never hear a word mentioned of the God's chosen people the Jews , or God's separate reconciliation of the nation Israel unto Himself . A person's instinctive & purposeful elimination of any mention of Jews in discussing the world at a time of great brutality and execution speaks volumes about the mindset of that person . " For God will save Zion and will build the cities of Judah that they may dwell there and have it in possession . The seed also of his servants shall inherit it and they that love his name shall dwell therein ." ( Psalm 69 : 36 ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightShinesInTheDarkness Posted January 26, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 426 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 398 Days Won: 3 Joined: 01/20/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Unfailing Presence said: Quite telling that in virtually every post- tribulation , last days, confused rambling you read you will never hear a word mentioned of the God's chosen people the Jews , or God's separate reconciliation of the nation Israel unto Himself . A person's instinctive & purposeful elimination of any mention of Jews in discussing the world at a time of great brutality and execution speaks volumes about the mindset of that person . " For God will save Zion and will build the cities of Judah that they may dwell there and have it in possession . The seed also of his servants shall inherit it and they that love his name shall dwell therein ." ( Psalm 69 : 36 ) Here is God's last days remnant among the Jews during the Tribulation: And the woman (Heavenly Jerusalem, the mother of all of Abraham's offspring, who is representative here of the 144,000 male Jews from the 12 tribes of Israel who will be saved/"sealed" just before the Tribulation begins) fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days. ...And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle (God) so that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time...Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring (the rest of the Christians on earth), on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. (Revelation 12:6, 13,14,17 ESV) Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles (all of God's elect among the Gentiles) has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved... (Romans 11:25,26 ESV) For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named. This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise (God's elect) are counted as offspring...And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved..." (Romans 9:6-8,27 ESV) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unfailing Presence Posted January 27, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 170 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/26/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2018 2 hours ago, LightShinesInTheDarkness said: Here is God's last days remnant among the Jews during the Tribulation: And the woman (Heavenly Jerusalem, the mother of all of Abraham's offspring, who is representative here of the 144,000 male Jews from the 12 tribes of Israel who will be saved/"sealed" just before the Tribulation begins) fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days. ...And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle (God) so that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time...Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring (the rest of the Christians on earth), on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. (Revelation 12:6, 13,14,17 ESV) Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles (all of God's elect among the Gentiles) has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved... (Romans 11:25,26 ESV) For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named. This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise (God's elect) are counted as offspring...And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved..." (Romans 9:6-8,27 ESV) And characteristically they will begrudgingly throw in some scripture concerning the Jews when it is pointed out that they have completely neglected mentioning a word about them in the dramatic future events occurring in Jerusalem of all places . " For the Lord hath chosen Jacob unto himself , and Israel for His peculiar treasure ." ( Psalm 135 : 4 ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Mclees Posted January 27, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 158 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 1,915 Content Per Day: 0.80 Reputation: 910 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2018 10 hours ago, LightShinesInTheDarkness said: Why would God test unsaved people? What for? He's going to send them a strong delusion so that they believe the lie that the antichrist is God as judgment for their rejection of the gospel, and rain judgments down on them. It's not testing; it's judgment. The other scriptures that speak about the saints on earth during the Tribulation confirm that the testing is for His own people---God's worshipers on earth---the outer court of the heavenly temple. There won't be any saints raptured away from the Tribulation; if they leave this world before the last day when Jesus returns it will be through martyrdom. The saints who are in heaven now are the ones who have conquered the dragon---Satan--not the antichrist, by the power of the blood of the Lamb and loving not their lives unto death. (Romans 8:35-37) They are mentioned as an example for those who are to follow in their footsteps during the Tribulation, who will also have to conquer the dragon (Satan, who will be inhabiting the person of the antichrist during that time) just as the saints in heaven conquered Satan during their time. Much of the confusion about who is in heaven and who is on earth during the Tribulation and how they got there results from both a belief in a pre-Tribulation rapture (which is a false teaching/myth/lie) and a misunderstanding of the time and place of the thousand-year reign of the saints with Christ. But comparing scripture with scripture, with God-given discernment, can clear this up. Without His help, I don't know that it can be done; He must enable us to understand the meaning of the scriptures and bring them together for us. That is some what irrelevant isn't. Does it matter what way you want to see it. Any way you want to hang the picture the bottom line is still the same Any man who truly seeks the truth shall be given it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted January 27, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.34 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted January 27, 2018 10 hours ago, LightShinesInTheDarkness said: Why would God test unsaved people? What for? He's going to send them a strong delusion so that they believe the lie that the antichrist is God as judgment for their rejection of the gospel, and rain judgments down on them. It's not testing; it's judgment. The other scriptures that speak about the saints on earth during the Tribulation confirm that the testing is for His own people---God's worshipers on earth---the outer court of the heavenly temple. There won't be any saints raptured away from the Tribulation; if they leave this world before the last day when Jesus returns it will be through martyrdom. The saints who are in heaven now are the ones who have conquered the dragon---Satan--not the antichrist, by the power of the blood of the Lamb and loving not their lives unto death. (Romans 8:35-37) They are mentioned as an example for those who are to follow in their footsteps during the Tribulation, who will also have to conquer the dragon (Satan, who will be inhabiting the person of the antichrist during that time) just as the saints in heaven conquered Satan during their time. Much of the confusion about who is in heaven and who is on earth during the Tribulation and how they got there results from both a belief in a pre-Tribulation rapture (which is a false teaching/myth/lie) and a misunderstanding of the time and place of the thousand-year reign of the saints with Christ. But comparing scripture with scripture, with God-given discernment, can clear this up. Without His help, I don't know that it can be done; He must enable us to understand the meaning of the scriptures and bring them together for us. Why would God test unsaved people? What for? He's going to send them a strong delusion so that they believe the lie that the antichrist is God as judgment for their rejection of the gospel, and rain judgments down on them. It's not testing; it's judgment. HE IS GOING TO SEND THEM A STRONG DELUSOIN TO BELEVE THE LIE AND BE DAMNED. That cant be argued one bit. I keep trying to tell folks , the all inclusive sin loving other gods loving God DONT EXIST . but man , I am just a hater who knows not GOD. But KNOWING the TERROR of the LORD , let us please persuade men. While GOD does desire none to perish, OH HIS WRATH WILLL COME . And I assure us all, This interfaith gospel this world peace gospel this gather with other religions and pray with them. IT MAKES GOD FURIOUS . FURIOUS I invite us all to go back and read THE JESUS of the BIBLE . the apostels letters and the JESUS that spoke from heaven. THEY DONT SOUND A THING like this all inclusive hug for world peace dung pile I keep hearing . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted January 27, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2018 On 1/25/2018 at 7:17 PM, Mike Mclees said: Pardon my correction here. Great tribulation is the time saints will suffer persecution by the antichrist 3 1/2 yrs but for the elects sake those days shall be shortened Math 24:15 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)24:15 1 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened. 23 Mt 24:21-23 Tribulations have been with the church since it began and will be until the abomination of desolation 3 1/2 yrs after the 7 yr peace accord Daniel 9:27. Then comes great tribulation. Revelation 15 then shows the True bride in heaven standing on a sea of glass after suffering the antichrist which right after comes Gods wrath poured out. This is what Rev 3: 10 is saying. The hour of temptation that shall come apon the earth to try the ungodly. That is your opinion but not what the Bible tells me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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