Did God send insects onto the ark?

[Tristen]

On 2/4/2018 at 12:47 AM, one.opinion said:

I’ve been using biblegateway.com a lot lately because so many translations are easily available. I know there are translations other than English but I haven’t explored them. There may be useful tools there I haven’t taken advantage of.

The AiG article I referenced earlier indicates that the “creeping things” references in verses 14 and 21 use different Hebrew words - remes in verse 14 and seres in verse 21. Context with usage in other verses also indicates that these words can include insects. It also mentions what I previously observed in the ESV, that some translations translate verse 14 as an encompassing term that includes all flying things.

What are your thoughts on these arguments?

Hi One,

I think I'd first make the pedantic point that the remes in Gen 7:14 were the creatures that made it onto the ark, whereas the sheretz in verse 21 didn't.

Both of these words can be generalised to mean 'things that move' – so in a sense can be used somewhat interchangeably. Remes has a more specific connotation of crawling swiftly across the ground (small reptiles are the typical example). Sheretz has a more specific connotation of moving in large groups. So I agree that Sheretz could include insects. I don't think this possibility does much to undermine any of my previous arguments. In Gen 7:21, sheretz appears to be used in a far more general sense.

 

[one.opinion]

On 2/4/2018 at 3:48 PM, Tristen said:

Hi One,

I think I'd first make the pedantic point that the remes in Gen 7:14 were the creatures that made it onto the ark, whereas the sheretz in verse 21 didn't.

Both of these words can be generalised to mean 'things that move' – so in a sense can be used somewhat interchangeably. Remes has a more specific connotation of crawling swiftly across the ground (small reptiles are the typical example). Sheretz has a more specific connotation of moving in large groups. So I agree that Sheretz could include insects. I don't think this possibility does much to undermine any of my previous arguments. In Gen 7:21, sheretz appears to be used in a far more general sense.

My apologies if you already addressed this, my brain is struggling this week... Did you address the Hebrew in verse 14 that some English versions translate to "every flying thing" or something along those lines? Also, what do you think of the biological argument that the loss of insect life (a flood of that magnitude would certainly wreak havoc on insect populations) would have been catastrophic to ecosystems?

[Tristen]

9 hours ago, one.opinion said:

My apologies if you already addressed this, my brain is struggling this week... Did you address the Hebrew in verse 14 that some English versions translate to "every flying thing" or something along those lines? Also, what do you think of the biological argument that the loss of insect life (a flood of that magnitude would certainly wreak havoc on insect populations) would have been catastrophic to ecosystems?

The Hebrew word owph means fliers, and so can include insects (and bats and pterosaurs etc.), but is overwhelmingly used of birds. However, Gen 7:14 also includes a qualifier for the owph – i.e. every tsippowr (bird) of every kannaph (wing).

Consider the structure of Gen 7:14;

They,

and every beast after its kind,

and all cattle after their kind,

and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth after its kind,

and every flier after its kind; every bird of every wing.

 

A global flood would self-evidently “wreak havoc on insect populations” - as would be the case for every kind of creature. Insects have advantages over other creatures in that they tend to reproduce more quickly and produce more offspring than higher organisms. Plant life had already started to reclaim the earth before the ark came to rest (see Gen 8:10-11). The post-flood environment would be easier for insects to survive than the other creatures coming off the ark.

Terrestrial “ecosystems” would be utterly wiped out. New ecosystems would have to develop over time across new world.

[Dennis1209]

Here's my two mites.

Insects do not have the breath of life, many breath through their external skeletons. Insects and plants grew to gigantic proportions before the flood most likely due to an increased oxygen content and atmospheric pressure. Insects are limited in size now because of the reduced oxygen / pressure.  

Regardless of any insects on Noah's ark or not. Many insects form floating mats and float on top when flood waters come for long periods. Hunting in chest waders in rising flood waters you notice all the insects and reptiles on top of floating debris. I'm sure Noah's flood had lot's of floating debris, and insects no doubt were inside of and clinging to all the debris would be my guess.