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JoeCanada

Will there be a per-trib rapture

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40 minutes ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

JoeCanada, I am 100% pre-wrath in my teaching of the timing of the rapture, However, the answer to your question is Yes & No.

2Th 1:6  Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7  And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

The real tribulation that we are not appointed unto (1Thes 5:9) is God's Tribulation upon the Beast worshiping earth dwellers who had been persecuting the elect and Israel in the great tribulation.

Interestingly, it is still a true statement that I am pre-trib, but the period of tribulation must be qualified.

All Glory be unto the Lamb

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That’s good work you’ve done here, but where the confusion comes in is that people confuse the tribulation with the Day of the Lord or the wrath of God. The Day of the Lord is the wrath of God and no true Christian will receive the wrath of God. But the Church of Christ will be persecuted and will face tribulation until the Day of the Lord or the Lord’s return, it is at that point the Church is removed so that they will not receive the wrath of God. I believe the problem is in confusing the Day of the Lord with the tribulation that Christians must face until the Day of the Lord. I found your work very interesting!  I believe in a pre-wrath of God rapture, not a pre-tribulation rapture.

Edited by Royff

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1 hour ago, Royff said:

That’s good work you’ve done here, but where the confusion comes in is that people confuse the tribulation with the Day of the Lord or the wrath of God. The Day of the Lord is the wrath of God and no true Christian will receive the wrath of God. But the Church of Christ will be persecuted and will face tribulation until the Day of the Lord or the Lord’s return, it is at that point the Church is removed so that they will not receive the wrath of God. I believe the problem is in confusing the Day of the Lord with the tribulation that Christians must face until the Day of the Lord. I found your work very interesting!  I believe in a pre-wrath of God rapture, not a pre-tribulation rapture.

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Royff, I thought my diagram was self explanatory, but maybe it's not. I think you and I agree that there are two distinct periods of tribulation in the last half of the week.

1) The great tribulation, which is Satan's wrath through the Beast, False prophet, and their followers upon the church (elect) and Israel.

2) God's wrath on the day of the Lord, which is the pouring out of His fierce indignation in the form of the trumpet judgements, vial judgements, and the sword of His mouth at Armageddon. These He pours upon the unbelieving, Beast worshiping, earth dwellers who had persecuted the elect and Israel.

Hallelujah

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1 hour ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Royff, I thought my diagram was self explanatory, but maybe it's not. I think you and I agree that there are two distinct periods of tribulation in the last half of the week.

1) The great tribulation, which is Satan's wrath through the Beast, False prophet, and their followers upon the church (elect) and Israel.

2) God's wrath on the day of the Lord, which is the pouring out of His fierce indignation in the form of the trumpet judgements, vial judgements, and the sword of His mouth at Armageddon. These He pours upon the unbelieving, Beast worshiping, earth dwellers who had persecuted the elect and Israel.

Hallelujah

I think we agree more than we disagree, but I believe we are still not sure how to distinguish between the wrath of God and the wrath of the anti-Christ.  I understand in that seven-year period there is much destruction taking place in the earth, but I don’t believe that’s the Day of the Lord yet. The reason I come to that conclusion is that in that “Day” the Day of the Lord, no one will be able to stand, everything is on fire and is consumed by the consuming fire that our God is. Everything melts at His presence, even the earth shall collapse:

“The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.” [Isaiah 24:20] KJV

Even though there is much destruction in that seven-year period it never reaches the level of destruction that takes place at the Day of the Lord, in this tribulation period one third of the earth is destroyed, two thirds still stand. In the Day of the Lord even the heavens are destroyed at His appearing, even though the seven-year period brings much destruction, the worst is still yet to come. Mountains will collapse and be removed from their place, planets will from flee the presence of the Lord. Even though there is much destruction in that seven-year period, its nothing compared to the Day of the Lord.

I agree with you that this is great tribulation, but I believe its leading up to the Day of the Lord and it is not that Day, I believe its at the end of that seven-year period that the Day of the comes. That’s what I mean by being able to tell the difference between the great tribulation and the Day of the Lord. At the Day of the Lord, all is consumed, not one third, but all. I hope I got my point across, I’m not saying that “true” followers of Christ will be here in the Day of the Lord, but we must not confuse the two periods. In one period, two thirds of the stands, in the other no one stand, but all collapses on itself to make way for a New Heaven and New Earth. To me that’s the Day of the Lord and not the seven-year period that leads up to His appearing. I agree with you, its at His appearance, when He comes to first remove his church from what is to come and fight with the sword of His mouth, that is the Day of the Lord. I don’t think there is much we disagree on except maybe in separating the seven-year tribulation from the Day of the Lord.

Though many ‘true” followers of Christ will and have in the pass face great tribulation, no follower of Christ will face the Day of the Lord in His anger. I still believe that getting caught up in hoping that God rescues us before the anti-Christ do his thing, can cause us to get too caught up in self-preservation that we can lose sight of the goal of evangelizing the world for Christ. If I’m spending my time worrying about when God is going to rescue me from this planet then surely that is taking my attention away from the work he has for me as a watchman, at some point it must affect my duty as a watchman if too much of my concern is on self!

To me it really doesn’t matter when the Lord raptures me as long as I hear, “well done my good and faithful servant” you stood in the face of the beast and declared my name before the world!  But I do agree with most of what you said!       

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