Catholic Idolatry

[Goldie]

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

You have to understand that in the Bible "saints" are all Christians, not the canonized "saints" of the RCC.  

Again, 'YOUR' interpretation.

[KiwiChristian]

1 hour ago, Mishael said:

Nothing you wrote refutes the concept of praying to saints. 

Indeed, when we ask the saints to pray for us in heaven, and pray for each other's intentions, we are actually being very Scriptural and following the commands in the Bible.  In fact, in the very same reading which professes that Jesus is the one mediator, we also read St. Paul proclaiming:

First of all, I ask that supplications, prayers,

petitions, and thanksgivings be offered for everyone,

Is this not St. Paul asking for the mediation of his companion, Timothy, (and probably all of the early Christian community) in this verse?  

 

Everything that the Body of Christ accomplishes is done only through our union through Him, with Him and in Him.  

 

So when St. Paul says that he saves some souls (yes, he, St. Paul, says that he saves souls.  Not Christ:  To the weak I became weak, to win over the weak.  I have become all things to all, to save at least some.-1 Cor 9:22), we know that he means it only through his union with the One Savior.

 

So when St. Paul says he became our spiritual father, (I became your father in Jesus Christ through the Gospel -1 Cor 4:15), even though Scripture says that there is only One Father (Call no one on earth your father; you have but one Father in heaven--Matt 23:9), we know it is because of his union with the One Father.

 

When Sts. Peter and Paul cure the sick and even raise the dead (see Acts 9 and 20), we know that it is not of their own power, but it is rooted in the power that belongs to God alone.

 

So when we act as mediators through our prayer chains and though the intercessory prayers at Mass, or  when the saints intercede for us, it is not a usurpation of the One Mediatorship of Christ.  Rather, it is merely a participation in His Mediatorship.

Show me ANYWHERE in the Bible of ANYONE praying to ANYONE else other than God, please.

[KiwiChristian]

1 minute ago, Goldie said:

Again, 'YOUR' interpretation.

Nope. According to the BIBLE

[KiwiChristian]

2 hours ago, Goldie said:

The Elders are holding the bowls of incense which are the prayers 'FROM' the Saints.

Yes, FROM the Christians on earth.

 

The elders were not prayed TO.

[Goldie]

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

The Mary of the Roman Catholic Church is not the Mary of Scripture.   The Mary of the Roman church is the whore of Babylon.  The Roman church as no gateway to Jesus.  The Roman church is the path to Hell.

Waw! That is VERY strong words indeed. I ask God to forgive you.

[Mishael]

4 minutes ago, KiwiChristian said:

Show me ANYWHERE in the Bible of ANYONE praying to ANYONE else other than God, please.

The intercession of fellow Christians—which is what the saints in heaven are—also clearly does not interfere with Christ’s unique mediatorship because in the four verses immediately preceding 1 Timothy 2:5, Paul says that Christians should interceed: "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:1–4). Clearly, then, intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others is something "good and pleasing to God," not something infringing on Christ’s role as mediator. In any event, it is clear from Revelation 5:8 that the saints in heaven do actively intercede for us. We are explicitly told by John that the incense they offer to God are the prayers of the saints. Prayers are not physical things and cannot be physically offered to God. Thus the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God mentally. In other words, they are interceding. Its not exactly a prayer it's asking others to pray for you.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Mishael

[KiwiChristian]

2 hours ago, Goldie said:

Mary interceded at Cana. Jesus gave Mary to us at the foot of the cross.

 

No she didn't. She only made one statement.

 

No, He gave her to ONE person.

 

2 hours ago, Goldie said:

We are Her children. She is Our Holy Mother. She is the Mother of God.

 

No, we are not her children. we are descended from EVE.

She is NOT Holy. none of us are.

 

She is NOT the mother of God!

 

If she is, then she is the mother of the Holy Spirit and of God the Father.

 

2 hours ago, Goldie said:

Whatever haters of Catholicism say, Mary is a gateway to Jesus. Jesus loved His Mother and wants us to do the same.

 

LOL. No, she is not. I go to Jesus DIRECTLY.

Jesus NEVER even referred to her or recognized her as His mother. Who is my mother? who are my brothers?

 

REPENT of your idolatry, my friend.

2 hours ago, Goldie said:

 

Problem with sola scripture people is that when you close the cover of the Bible thats it! Nothing else is possible to them once the Bible closes shut!

 

sola scripture is just a term catholics made up to attack Christians.

 

Anyhow, they dont even know the term!

 

solA scripture means Scripture is the FINAL authority.

 

solO scripture means the Bible ALONE.

 

2 hours ago, Goldie said:

In the Catholic church, we have Sacred Scripture AND Sacred Tradition! That is extremely powerful and God given. Protestants can scoff all they want. We Catholics know the truth.

I know. 

 

You have "traditions" to justify your anti-Biblical and anti-Christian teachings.

 

It is MAN-given, not GOD-given.

[Mishael]

9 minutes ago, KiwiChristian said:

 

No she didn't. She only made one statement.

 

No, He gave her to ONE person.

 

 

No, we are not her children. we are descended from EVE.

She is NOT Holy. none of us are.

 

She is NOT the mother of God!

 

If she is, then she is the mother of the Holy Spirit and of God the Father.

 

 

LOL. No, she is not. I go to Jesus DIRECTLY.

Jesus NEVER even referred to her or recognized her as His mother. Who is my mother? who are my brothers?

 

REPENT of your idolatry, my friend.

 

sola scripture is just a term catholics made up to attack Christians.

 

Anyhow, they dont even know the term!

 

solA scripture means Scripture is the FINAL authority.

 

solO scripture means the Bible ALONE.

 

I know. 

 

You have "traditions" to justify your anti-Biblical and anti-Christian teachings.

 

It is MAN-given, not GOD-given.

Sola Scriptura as something made up by Martin Luther that never existed in Christian history. Funny your willing to deny all of the Church fathers and biblical teachings yet have no problem trusting a man who caused one of the largest horrors on earth called the Protestant reformation which damaged Christendom almost as bad as the Islamic invasions. Sola Scriptura is a man-given concept invented in the 1500s by people who wanted to get back at the Catholic Church after they got excommunicated from it. It's is you who should repent of your man made doctrines of heresy my friend.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Mishael

[Goldie]

29 minutes ago, KiwiChristian said:

 

No she didn't. She only made one statement.

She interceded. Jesus let her intercede. This is a fact. This is where She started Her ministry for God.

 

No, He gave her to ONE person.

When He gave Our Holy Mother to The Apostle, He gave Her to all of us. And us to Her. Fact.

 

No, we are not her children. we are descended from EVE.

She is NOT Holy. none of us are.

Descended from Eve but with the new Covenant we are Her earthly children who She looks over.

She is NOT the mother of God!

She is. Jesus is the Son of 'God'. Mary gave birth to Jesus. Thus, She IS the Mother of God.

 

If she is, then she is the mother of the Holy Spirit and of God the Father.

Obviously you are skewing things!

 

LOL. No, she is not. I go to Jesus DIRECTLY.

Jesus NEVER even referred to her or recognized her as His mother. Who is my mother? who are my brothers?

Jesus gave us His Mother. She gave birth to Him. Lots of teaching that Jesus gave are not recorded in the Bible! John stated there would not be enough books in the world to copy them down! This is where the church hold fast to Sacred Tradition and Apostolic Tradition. The Holy Spirit is very much alive in the church. Guiding it.

 

REPENT of your idolatry, my friend.

No idolotry in the Catholic church. Just misunderstanding from those that dont really know the church!

 

sola scripture is just a term catholics made up to attack Christians.

It is a term that has no Biblical proof. Ok for you to state some Catholic teaching have no proof except for when we point out your unBiblical teachings / untruths

 

solA scripture means Scripture is the FINAL authority.

What it means to you is not Biblical. Its not in the Bible. Tradition was the main thing in the early church. The Bible was not around for the first 300 years!

 

solO scripture means the Bible ALONE.

It means the Bible when closed is it. Nothing else lives after that. That is how you see it.

 

You have "traditions" to justify your anti-Biblical and anti-Christian teachings.

We have the Holy Catholic church. We have Sacred Scripture entwined with Sacred Tradition. We have the Holy Spirit guiding the church. Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail. The Catholic church still stands today in Jesus name.

 

It is MAN-given, not GOD-given.

Catholic church was born at Pentecost. Jesus gave us His church.

 

God bless you buddy

 

Edited April 17, 2018 by Goldie

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Goldie said:

Again, 'YOUR' interpretation.

No, that is how the Bible uses the term, consistently.   Paul refers to those in the churches as "saints."  He doesn't ever refer to "saints" as a special class of Christians separate from everyone else.