GoldenEagle Posted February 14, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 8 hours ago, Gary Lee said: I think I missed your intent of the OP. Great topic, GE And tough. "What's the difference between a person's Rights, Desires, and Preferences?" I may prefer a lot of salt on my food. Not healthy. I may desire to be healthy. No salt. I have no right to be healthy. Weather I consume much or little salt. Best I can come up with, as it's almost midnight. I desire to get at least five hours sleep, but prefer eight. I don't have the right to keep my wife up with the noise discussing with the computer again...... Interesting @Gary Lee that you would say you have no right to be healthy. So do you have a right to choose to exercise and eat what you prefer/like to eat? But again let's talk about respect and dignity for a minute. Which one is the best answer? A. Right - A person should be treated with respect and dignity. B. Desire - A person may have the desire to be treated with respect and dignity. C. Preference - A person would like to be treated with respect and dignity. God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted February 14, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.35 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted February 14, 2018 3 hours ago, GoldenEagle said: Hi @frienduff thaylorde See post above to SimpleJeff. I think I agree with what you have said. Again, I'm not sure how clear my OP was. Let me try to give an example and rephrase. Let's talk about respect and dignity for a minute. Which one is the best answer? A. Right - A person should be treated with respect and dignity. B. Desire - A person may have the desire to be treated with respect and dignity. C. Preference - A person would like to be treated with respect and dignity. God bless, GE our right should be seen as this . HOW they treated JESUS is how the world will treat us , and we are no better than our Lord , nor above Him. SO rejoice when treated ill by others our desire should be unto this and our preference should be THY WILL BE DONE. I know what your saying. But the focus should not be on how the world treats us , just that no matter how cruel it does we don't repay evil with evil. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted February 14, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 14, 2018 Amen frienduff, When someone is crucified with Christ, all those values of the world are gone, not even thought of in the Mind of Christ. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sower Posted February 15, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 14 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,241 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 5,842 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/09/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted February 15, 2018 3 hours ago, GoldenEagle said: @Gary Lee Hiya You mentioned that dying to self is one of the most difficult and final steps in growing as Christians. I think the whole "yielding your rights" comes into play here right? See my post about the 10 Commandments to Simple Jeff about implied human rights. I suppose my question the more I think about it is more along the lines of rights of people {and Christians}. For example how do you view these passages: Proverbs 31:8-9 Open your mouth for the mute, for the rights of all who are destitute. Open your mouth, judge righteously, defend the rights of the poor and needy. Isaiah 1:17 Learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow's cause. Psalm 82:3 Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute. Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God? It's difficult for me to appreciate any "rights" of others in this day and time, as every day some radical group is demanding their rights. At others expense. They need (deserve) special treatment, because of ------------- I can surely see doing justice for the cause of these: (the mute, destitute, poor, needy, fatherless, widow's, weak, fatherless; afflicted, destitute.) KJV: Pro 31:8-9 Open thy mouth for the dumb in the cause of all such as are appointed to destruction Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy. Psa 82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. I think, "yielding your rights", doesn't come into play for a believer, as a new creature, we have no rights. I live, but not I but Christ liveth in me. If I'm abiding, if I'm yielding to the Spirit, I'm yielding my will to God. Thus, no "rights" "Not my will, but Thine"... We are without rights, when yielding to the Spirit, but we do have obligations. To respond to those listed above. To speak up and do what's possible, for those who cannot do for themselves. It is a privileged to be able to respond to those in need. But by the grace of God, I could have been on the receiving end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted February 15, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 15, 2018 14 hours ago, GoldenEagle said: Interesting @Gary Lee that you would say you have no right to be healthy. So do you have a right to choose to exercise and eat what you prefer/like to eat? Around 1950-1960, the seeming 'right' to be healthy was by federal law taken* away. By corporations before and since then also, frequently. i.e. society is dangerous, pernicious, and not meant of their own motives or purposes to be helpful, as written in Scripture. Sovereign Creator YHVH can and does still use it for His Own Purposes, as He Pleases. *To realize this it must possibly be understood how few people were dependent on the government system around 1902, and up until then. Since then it has been getting worse and worse, on purpose, every year. That was the year long ago (years/ decades ago ) revealed that the powers that be in the united states got together and decided unanimously perhaps that making more money was the overall course to take, with no regard for anyone's health --- only their own pocketbooks and how much more money could be made off the herds of people held captive.(general population, in the usa, and in the rest of the world as it has happened, as much as possible for those in power). There are still 'hidden' resources of freedom and health and life , as God has called and chosen and set apart people for Himself, for His Own Purpose outside the greed and power of the purpose of the world system. (oh, still living in the world, but free of its power, and witnesses testifying of God's Way as God decrees) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sower Posted February 15, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 14 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,241 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 5,842 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/09/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted February 15, 2018 14 hours ago, GoldenEagle said: Interesting @Gary Lee that you would say you have no right to be healthy. So do you have a right to choose to exercise and eat what you prefer/like to eat? But again let's talk about respect and dignity for a minute. Which one is the best answer? A. Right - A person should be treated with respect and dignity. B. Desire - A person may have the desire to be treated with respect and dignity. C. Preference - A person would like to be treated with respect and dignity. God bless, GE Tricky. Most anybody would like to be, and desire to be, treated with respect and dignity. B,C (Receiving respect) Christians only have one choice, about A (Giving respect) A certain respect, tho not unlimited, as deserved/earned. There are people I have lost respect for. I may pray for them as is due. I can act respectfully to them. But I cannot change the loss of respect of the person. They have to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted February 15, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 15, 2018 22 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said: our right should be seen as this . HOW they treated JESUS is how the world will treat us , and we are no better than our Lord , nor above Him. SO rejoice when treated ill by others our desire should be unto this and our preference should be THY WILL BE DONE. I know what your saying. But the focus should not be on how the world treats us , just that no matter how cruel it does we don't repay evil with evil. I still think we are still talking over each other. John 18:19-24 The High Priest Questions Jesus 19 The high priest then questioned Jesus about his disciples and his teaching. 20 Jesus answered him, “I have spoken openly to the world. I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all Jews come together. I have said nothing in secret. 21 Why do you ask me? Ask those who have heard me what I said to them; they know what I said.” 22 When he had said these things, one of the officers standing by struck Jesus with his hand, saying, “Is that how you answer the high priest?” 23 Jesus answered him, “If what I said is wrong, bear witness about the wrong; but if what I said is right, why do you strike me?” 24 Annas then sent him bound to Caiaphas the high priest. When Jesus was slapped on the face in John 18 what did He do? Jesus stood up to those who had done Him wrong. Is that a contradiction to Jesus's teaching on the sermon on the mount in Matthew 5? No, Jesus was showing that back handedly slapping someone was wrong and shameful. To turn the other cheek would have been heaping more shame upon the person doing the slapping and would have pointed out the rights of the person who was being violated that should have treated with respect. Jesus never gave up his rights as the Son of God. He retained the right to call down legions of angels to aid Him at any time even up to the end. Jesus didn't make use of His rights to do so because He had a greater purpose. But make no mistake that Jesus rights were violated and the people who called for His death were guilty of the blood on their hands. God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted February 15, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 15, 2018 13 hours ago, Gary Lee said: It's difficult for me to appreciate any "rights" of others in this day and time, as every day some radical group is demanding their rights. At others expense. They need (deserve) special treatment, because of ------------- I can surely see doing justice for the cause of these: (the mute, destitute, poor, needy, fatherless, widow's, weak, fatherless; afflicted, destitute.) KJV: Pro 31:8-9 Open thy mouth for the dumb in the cause of all such as are appointed to destruction Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy. Psa 82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. I think, "yielding your rights", doesn't come into play for a believer, as a new creature, we have no rights. I live, but not I but Christ liveth in me. If I'm abiding, if I'm yielding to the Spirit, I'm yielding my will to God. Thus, no "rights" "Not my will, but Thine"... We are without rights, when yielding to the Spirit, but we do have obligations. To respond to those listed above. To speak up and do what's possible, for those who cannot do for themselves. It is a privileged to be able to respond to those in need. But by the grace of God, I could have been on the receiving end. Sorry that it's difficult for you to appreciate the rights of others. Just because I don't like saying please and thank you does it make it right for me to be rude to others? I think not. Where do you get the idea that we have no rights? Let's discuss for a moment A. Natural Law and B. distinguish between vertical and horizontal rights. Natural Law can be boiled down to two parts: 1. Do not encroach on others or their property. This is the basis of criminal law. 2. Do all you have agreed to do. This is the basis of civil law. Further, it's important to distinguish between vertical (God to person) and horizontal (person to person) rights. In our relationship with God, we have rights only as they are granted to us in Jesus Christ. For example, we can approach God boldly through Jesus Christ as our Mediator. Or we can claim through Jesus Christ the inheritance promised to those who confess that Jesus is Lord and believe in their hearts God raised Him from the dead - eternal life with God. Over our lives and our property we have no rights before God. He has all the rights. He is the Maker and owner of everything. We simply manage what He's given us: Money, Time, other resources, etc. Before our fellow man, though, it's a different story. Every person has basic human rights. Again, see the last few of the 10 commandments. This includes me and you. This is clear from Scripture, from common sense, from natural law, and from the foundations of basic republic/democratic nations. A basic principle of what we see in the Bible is every person should be treated with dignity and respect. Jesus Himself said that the law was summed up in loving God and loving people. Matthew 7:12 So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. Matthew 22:36-39 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.” As we follow Jesus, our rights may be violated However, they are still our rights as we are image bearers made in God's image. What do you think? God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted February 15, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 15, 2018 12 hours ago, Gary Lee said: Tricky. Most anybody would like to be, and desire to be, treated with respect and dignity. B,C (Receiving respect) Christians only have one choice, about A (Giving respect) A certain respect, tho not unlimited, as deserved/earned. There are people I have lost respect for. I may pray for them as is due. I can act respectfully to them. But I cannot change the loss of respect of the person. They have to do that. 1 Cor. 9 for example may seem to indicate that Paul gave up his rights but he never did. Paul was willing to give up his very life. If Paul had no rights then no wrong would have been done to him through stoning, imprisonment, threats of murder, etc. Even Paul claimed his right as a Roman citizen in Acts 22 when he told the Roman officer that he (Paul) was protected from being flogged without a trial. If we passively accept mistreatment we enable offenders to continue in harmful behavior. As image barriers of God we (all people) have worth, dignity, and are worth defending. This is true from the woman who is being beaten by her husband, those who are slaves, the widow who is left out in the cold, and the orphan who needs a home. I'm not sure I follow what you're saying. How can a person change the lack of respect you have for them? How is respect not unlimited? Does the command to respect others seem to be optional to you? I respect the office of President of the United States. I may not like some of the decisions this or the previous administrations' have made but they do not earn my respect. The government is established by God and so the leaders have my respect. Do these seem like options or command by Peter & Paul? 1 Peter 2:17 Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor. Romans 13:7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed. Food for thought. God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted February 15, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 15, 2018 Those crucified with and in Christ do not have any 'rights' to stand up for or try to defend. They (we) REST IN HIM, and TRUST THE FATHER, SAME AS CHRIST ! (we have the mind of Christ) Do what the Father says to DO, as written in His Word. There's no worry then about anyone's so-called (and worldly or carnal or humanistic) "rights" One right more people should be aware was taken from them, is the right to know the truth about health (spiritual, mental, soulish and physical health) . The enemy (hasatan) came only to kill , to steal, and to destroy, and he works through all the governments of this world to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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