Unfailing Presence Posted February 14, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 170 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/26/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 14, 2018 So it has been pitched by the post tribulation crowd that God's purpose in sending His children , in whom there is now " no condemnation ", into the tribulation is that there are those in Christ who are weak and are not pleasing to God . They need extra " testing " with the spirit of fear, bondage , temptation that they may be made strong like themselves or be plucked from the hand of Christ if their weakness demands . A tough love culling the herd of the weaker Christians by the God of all divine comfort and mercies . Once again you have a post-trib philosophy completely counter to the Words of Jesus who told us that though in Christ we will encounter temptation in this world , it is the expressed desire of God the Father for His children to ," lead us not into temptation ." Whereas the pre-trib understanding is in complete concurrence with this statement of Jesus's , with His children being led " not into temptation " through His gathering of them to Himself in the rapture . Striking how consistent each belief is juxtaposed to the various teachings of Jesus . 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted February 14, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 14, 2018 9 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said: Whereas the pre-trib understanding is in complete concurrence with this statement of Jesus's , with His children being led " not into temptation " through His gathering of them to Himself in the rapture . Striking how consistent each belief [of the pretrib] is juxtaposed to the various teachings of Jesus . You failed to finish the thought: And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Matthew 6:13a Seems that its the pretrib rapture that runs contrary to the teachings of Jesus: I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. John 17:15 Striking indeed! We don't have to leave earth to be kept. That's man's reasoning. Trust in God and fear not. What I say to you I say to all, ‘Be on the alert!’ Mark 13:37 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiards Ball Posted February 14, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted February 14, 2018 I don't believe Christians will enter the Tribulation based on philosophy or "we need to", I believe we shall based on my understanding of the holy scriptures. I tried hard to disbelieve this truth but the scriptures compel. However, I don't believe in the post-tribulation doctrine. I'm what's called a "pre-wrath" doctrinal adherent. Both you and I should believe eschatology based on what the scriptures teach, not a certain emotional or philosophical position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiards Ball Posted February 14, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted February 14, 2018 23 minutes ago, Last Daze said: You failed to finish the thought: And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Matthew 6:13a Seems that its the pretrib rapture that runs contrary to the teachings of Jesus: I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. John 17:15 Striking indeed! We don't have to leave earth to be kept. That's man's reasoning. Trust in God and fear not. What I say to you I say to all, ‘Be on the alert!’ Mark 13:37 And, of course, "In the world you shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer . . . " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary8 Posted February 14, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 35 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 240 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 201 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/23/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 14, 2018 13 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said: So it has been pitched by the post tribulation crowd that God's purpose in sending His children , in whom there is now " no condemnation ", into the tribulation is that there are those in Christ who are weak and are not pleasing to God . They need extra " testing " with the spirit of fear, bondage , temptation that they may be made strong like themselves or be plucked from the hand of Christ if their weakness demands . A tough love culling the herd of the weaker Christians by the God of all divine comfort and mercies . Once again you have a post-trib philosophy completely counter to the Words of Jesus who told us that though in Christ we will encounter temptation in this world , it is the expressed desire of God the Father for His children to ," lead us not into temptation ." Whereas the pre-trib understanding is in complete concurrence with this statement of Jesus's , with His children being led " not into temptation " through His gathering of them to Himself in the rapture . Striking how consistent each belief is juxtaposed to the various teachings of Jesus . Excellent comments. Beautiful Scriptures that answer What, When, and Who: And to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come. I Thessalonians 1:10 Looking for that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13 For in the time of trouble He shall hide me in his pavilion, In the secret of His tabernacle shall He hide me. He shall set me upon a rock. Psalm 27:10 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ. I Thessalonians 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. Romans 5:9 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottA Posted February 14, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 552 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 104 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/24/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 14, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said: So it has been pitched by the post tribulation crowd that God's purpose in sending His children , in whom there is now " no condemnation ", into the tribulation is that there are those in Christ who are weak and are not pleasing to God . They need extra " testing " with the spirit of fear, bondage , temptation that they may be made strong like themselves or be plucked from the hand of Christ if their weakness demands . A tough love culling the herd of the weaker Christians by the God of all divine comfort and mercies . Once again you have a post-trib philosophy completely counter to the Words of Jesus who told us that though in Christ we will encounter temptation in this world , it is the expressed desire of God the Father for His children to ," lead us not into temptation ." Whereas the pre-trib understanding is in complete concurrence with this statement of Jesus's , with His children being led " not into temptation " through His gathering of them to Himself in the rapture . Striking how consistent each belief is juxtaposed to the various teachings of Jesus . The quote from the Lord's prayer is not about the tribulation whether pre or post, but about temptation. The context of the Lord's prayer can benefit all followers of Christ, but will be misunderstood if not first viewed as specific to the immediate context of Jesus speaking only to His disciples of that time. In that proper context, He is referring to [their] temptation which was about to come: Matthew 26:36-46 36 Then Jesus came with them to a place called Gethsemane, and said to the disciples, “Sit here while I go and pray over there.” 37 And He took with Him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and He began to be sorrowful and deeply distressed. 38 Then He said to them, “My soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even to death. Stay here and watch with Me.” 39 He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, “O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will.” 40 Then He came to the disciples and found them sleeping, and said to Peter, “What! Could you not watch with Me one hour? 41 Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” 42 Again, a second time, He went away and prayed, saying, “O My Father, if this cup cannot pass away from Me unless[a] I drink it, Your will be done.” 43 And He came and found them asleep again, for their eyes were heavy. 44 So He left them, went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words. 45 Then He came to His disciples and said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? Behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of Man is being betrayed into the hands of sinners. 46 Rise, let us be going. See, My betrayer is at hand.” ...This temptation is specific to their part in the Lord's hour of great tribulation and the taking on of all sin upon Himself. Moreover, it indicates by what means He shall come again. Edited February 14, 2018 by ScottA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted February 14, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 14, 2018 15 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said: So it has been pitched by the post tribulation crowd that God's purpose in sending His children , in whom there is now " no condemnation ", into the tribulation is that there are those in Christ who are weak and are not pleasing to God . Who pitched this TO YOU ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted February 14, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 14, 2018 15 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said: Striking how consistent each belief is juxtaposed to the various teachings of Jesus . Could you re-word this , what do you mean by this ? i.e. why is it 'striking'. Is it 'consistent' actually ? 'juxtaposed to the various teachings' of Jesus - ARE any of His Teachings contrary to each other, ever ? Or only 'juxtaposed' ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted February 14, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 14, 2018 15 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said: Once again you have a post-trib philosophy completely counter to the Words of Jesus Who holds this philosophy completely counter to the Words of Jesus ? Why hold any philosophy at all ? What is the philosophy ? (not that it matters after all, any 'philosophy', so-called) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted February 14, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 14, 2018 15 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said: They need extra .... Are you making this up as you go ? ! Who teaches what you claim they teach ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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