iamlamad Posted February 19, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Steve_S said: The KJV, NKJV, and YLT translate it falling away. The ESV and many others tranlates it as the "rebellion." The NASB and and a few others translates it as "apostasy." I cannot find a single bible translation at this point that translates it as "departing." That's about 500 years' worth of greek experts, many of whom were learned, faithful, Christian men. What makes the theory that it means "departing" correct, where is the evidence of this? You need to look at the English translations BEFORE the 1611 KJV. Like Coverdale, Tyndale, Geneva Bible, or Wycliffe. All since the KJV have just copied it. Edited February 19, 2018 by iamlamad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted February 19, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Wayne222 said: The restrainer could be Satan himself. Look he is cast out of heaven at the start of the 3 and half years . When he was cast out he was taken out of the way. He came before God to accuse the children of God. Now he is out of the way. He knows he has a short amount of time left. So he gives power to the one who will be the Antichrist. Satan restrain that day until he was cast out. I could be wrong but I might be right. I am still looking into it. The very theme of the passage by Paul is the catching away of the church, not a removal of Satan. And this apostasia has to come BEFORE the midpoint so that the restrainer would be removed to allow the man of sin to enter the temple at the midpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted February 19, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Last Daze said: Oh, so that's what you mean when you say that you're all ears. I'll know for next time. I'm not going to argue. Believe what you wish about eschatology. It matters not. Just be careful not to let it become a source of pride and arrogance. What matters is that we are ready and alert so that we can persevere in faithfulness to the end. "I am all ears" only means I am ready to hear what you have to say. No, there is no need to argue. But we should study to show ourselves approved. It is OK if you disagree. I just hope you study and see if you can find scriptural proof that what I wrote is in error. I can certainly be wrong. My wife tells me I am frequently! ;-) I would say what matters is that when He comes, He will find us EXPECTING Him. Edited February 19, 2018 by iamlamad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_S Posted February 19, 2018 Group: Servant Followers: 25 Topic Count: 275 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 5,208 Content Per Day: 1.00 Reputation: 1,893 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/02/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, iamlamad said: You need to look at the English translations BEFORE the 1611 KJV. Like Coverdale, Tyndale, Geneva Bible, or Wycliffe. All since the KJV have just copied it. Except that all of the bibles since the KJV have not copied it, only the YLT and NKJV have directly translated it as "falling away." Most translate it as apostacy or rebellion. The actual definition of the greek word is more in line with "forsake" or "defect." Ultimately, you can use "departed" and equate that with forsake or defect. There is no context in which that word simply means "departed" in a non-rebellious manner, though. Edited February 19, 2018 by Steve_S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unfailing Presence Posted February 19, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 170 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/26/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2018 The concept of someone who has never been born again in Christ " Falling Away " in a negative sense is illogical from a gospel standpoint . They are already at rock bottom . It is impossible for a non-believer who is not in Christ , and rejects the gospel to " fall away " any further from their current estate They are already hell doomed . If there is lower level than hell you can fall away to I have never heard of it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted February 20, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Unfailing Presence said: The concept of someone who has never been born again in Christ " Falling Away " in a negative sense is illogical from a gospel standpoint . They are already at rock bottom . It is impossible for a non-believer who is not in Christ , and rejects the gospel to " fall away " any further from their current estate They are already hell doomed . If there is lower level than hell you can fall away to I have never heard of it . Well, there are some who are lost that may / will/ one day turn to YHVH by faith in Jesus to be saved; while there are others who YHVH gives over to believe their own delusions, and perhaps more also, who YHVH says in His Word will never have a chance any more to be saved for the reasons YHVH gives in His Word. Key Words also: "there no longer remains a sacrifice for their sins" ... i.e. perhaps in your words a "lower" rock bottom , in a manner of speaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unfailing Presence Posted February 20, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 170 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/26/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2018 There only two kinds of people in the world , the saved & the lost . To say the lost are "falling away " further from being lost makes no sense according to bible . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted February 20, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2018 15 minutes ago, Unfailing Presence said: There only two kinds of people in the world , the saved & the lost . To say the lost are "falling away " further from being lost makes no sense according to bible . Read it again. EVERYONE was once lost, remember ? So there are some people lost today who may not be lost tomorrow! They are in a lot better status than someone who is lost today who will be lost tomorrow, the next day , and every day. (even if they don't know it!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unfailing Presence Posted February 20, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 170 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/26/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 hour ago, simplejeff said: Read it again. EVERYONE was once lost, remember ? So there are some people lost today who may not be lost tomorrow! They are in a lot better status than someone who is lost today who will be lost tomorrow, the next day , and every day. (even if they don't know it!) So then who are those " falling away " , the lost that day who will not be lost tomorrow ? Or the lost that day that will still be lost tomorrow ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heleadethme Posted February 20, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,371 Content Per Day: 1.36 Reputation: 3,267 Days Won: 5 Joined: 07/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2018 On 2/17/2018 at 11:24 AM, Sister said: Thanks, I will think on it a little more. Bless you sister, thanks for the thread, I'm enjoying the discussion, more in a listening mood right now. I did happen to check the definition for the words witholdeth and letteth on blueletterbible, assuming it is a reliable source, it's the one I mostly use... Also noticed that the same Greek word is used in both 2 Thess.2:6 and 2:7 translated "withholdeth" in v.6 and "letteth" in v.7.....they are both the Greek word "katecho" which primary meaning is to hold back, detain, retain. https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2722&t=KJV Hoping that will be helpful. 2 Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth (katecho) that he might be revealed in his time. 2Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth (katecho) will let, until he be taken out of the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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