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WHAT IS THE FALLING AWAY


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1 hour ago, RevelationWriter said:

The Wise Virgins who'll be ready to be taken into The Wedding by The Bridegroom

will send The Foolish Virgins away....so The Wise Virgins will already know who The Foolish are.

It's The Foolish who'll not know who they are till they're too late for The Wedding. - Matt.25

Yup, the wise virgins are referring to believers in Christ, and the oil is the indwelling Holy Spirit. The foolish virgins are nonbelievers obviously.

Strong's Concordance
elaion: olive oil
Original Word: ἔλαιον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: elaion
Phonetic Spelling: (el'-ah-yon)
Short Definition: olive oil
Definition: olive oil, oil.
HELPS Word-studies

Cognate: 1637 élaion – olive oil (from 1636 /elaía, "olive tree"); (figuratively) the indwelling (empowering) of the Holy Spirit.

While all true believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, none can give their oil to someone else (see Mt 25:3-8)! Each person must seek (find) the Lord for themself.

Quote

1. Paul did not have "The Revelation Of Jesus Christ" given to John for the churches, being after Paul's death.

So his perception a Rapture and a Resurrection is erroneous of future Prophecy.

:rolleyes:

1 Thess 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up (harpazó) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Rev 12:5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up (harpazó) to God and to his throne.

harpazó: to seize, catch up, snatch away
Original Word: ἁρπάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: harpazó
Phonetic Spelling: (har-pad'-zo)
Short Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery
Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery.

Quote

2. Paul considered both a Rapture & Resurrection would take place together.

So Pastors of Paul have taught it the way Paul said it. But that's not what "The Revelation Of Jesus Christ" says to the churches.

:rolleyes:

1 Thess 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Quote

1st Resurrection: is of those who sit on Thrones & those beheaded by the Beast:

Right, but 1st Ress. is also mutli layered...

1. Dead believers/living believers prior to 70th week (resurrection/rapture)
2. Believers that are beheaded inside the 70th week are resurrected at the end of the 70th week, Matt 24:31. (resurrection/gathering)

Quote

of course there'll be some alive on earth at this time

My personal belief is that the only people that will be alive at the end of the 70th week is Israel that fled, Rev 12:6 and nonbelievers with the mark, Rev 13:16-17. All who come to faith in Christ inside the 70th week will not make it alive.

Rev 14:20 They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses' bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.

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- I consider The Woman that John saw go into the wilderness Rev.12

as The Woman which John went into the wilderness to see the judgment of Rev.17 to be The City Woman Jerusalem.

- God said Israel is The Grapevine of the earth. These are some of those scriptures:

* God brought a Vine out of Egypt - Ps.80:8

* As a Vine is the remnant of Israel - Jer.6:9

* For The Vineyard Of The Lord Of Hosts Is The House Of Israel - Is.5:7

* A Vineyard Is.27:2 ...Israel will blossom put forth shoots and fill the whole earth with fruit Is.27:6 

As so Jesus said The Father is The Vinedresser...

Is it any wonder Jesus said, "I am the True vine" for abiding in Him and not Israel? - John 15:1

- When Jesus comes back in Rev.19 as King on His Horse, His Robe is already dipped in the blood of the vine up to the Horses' bridles from the Winepress that will be out side the City Jerusalem from the vine of the earth being gathered there. As He it is He Himself Who treads the Winepress of the fierceness and wrath of God. - Rev.14:17-20 - Rev.19:12-15

That's why I believe the only ones of Israel from Modern Earth is

The 144,000 Of All The Tribes Of Israel  which will be Of His Davidic Kingdom on earth for the 1,000 yr reign.

Which is not to say that more of historic Israel won't be Resurrected for the 1,000 yr reign as well being among them The 12 Apostles Of The Lamb whom He said would be on Thrones Judging The 12 Tribes in The Regeneration (1,000 yrs) And The 24 Elders who say they will reign on earth as kingdom priests.

The 144,000 will not worship the beast (Rev.13:15) so they will be killed by (Rev.14) when Jesus comes for them, and then will be of the 1st resurrection  (Rev.20:4)

 

 

 

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On 2/14/2018 at 10:44 PM, Sister said:

 2 Thessalonians 2:3   Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

 

Revelation 1:12   And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

Revelation 1:20   The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

 

The seven candlesticks represent the seven churches.  The seven churches which existed before until the end of this age represent believers who are put into seven different categories with their varied beliefs and fruits.  Each church was given encouragement and warnings to repent on the things which they lack, or else the "light" of the candlestick would be removed.  What keeps that flame burning is the oil.  Oil is faith.  Faith keeps the light on, so it doesn't go dark and we stumble.

By the time the end of this age nears, if those churches do not repent of the warnings, then that light will grow dim, and eventually be removed.

We were told by Paul that "the Falling away" will come.  So we already know what the end result is.

 

Zechariah 4:1   And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep,

Zechariah 4:2   And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:

Zechariah 4:3   And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.

Zechariah 4:11   Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?

  Zechariah 4:12   And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

  Zechariah 4:13   And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.

  Zechariah 4:14   Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

 

At the end times, God will send his two witnesses to provide the oil to keep the flame burning for the churches to keep their light from going out.  This oil that they have been annointed with is faith, and this is the fuel they pour into the golden pipes for the candlesticks of the seven churches to keep their flame from going out.  Out of each of these churches, some individuals will repent, and this flame is for them,  to keep the faith going, and endure until the end no matter what. 

As for the rest of the congregations who did not repent, the flame will be removed from them, and this is the falling away.

These days coming will be so evil, that the FP will remove all Christian Churches, and buildings, and organisations, and meeting places etc, but do not fret, because this is God's will, as he is punishing those leaders who have corrupted these churches, and the followers who have been led blindly, will need some of this oil that that the two witnesses will provide.  All will be on his own.  What the two witnesses will bring on the earth, all the plagues,... is for encouragement and faith in the God we serve who is finally bringing justice before our eyes. 

Let this be your fuel, that faith to endure to the end.  We will not have anyone holding our hand but the Lord and that faith he provides.

 

 Jeremiah 10:21   For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the LORD: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.


Jeremiah 12:10   Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.

Jeremiah 12:11   They have made it desolate, and being desolate it mourneth unto me; the whole land is made desolate, because no man layeth it to heart.

Jeremiah 12:12   The spoilers are come upon all high places through the wilderness: for the sword of the LORD shall devour from the one end of the land even to the other end of the land: no flesh shall have peace. (none who are in that land....Babylon)
 

 

 

 

 

 

2 Thess.2:3 said the following, according to the historic translation of it, as documented in the following:

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a DEPARTURE   first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

2 Thess.2:1-8: The precise timing of the rapture of the Church:
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation of Dan.9:27] has already come." 2 Thes.2:1-2. Which is a direct reference to 1 Thes.4:17 and the theme of Paul's entire pre-trib rapture message in 2 Thes.2:1-8. When we will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. [Parenthetics mine].

The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to in vs 2, alludes to Dan.9:27, when God will intervene into the affairs of man for the last time, culminating in the second coming of Jesus to the earth. In that passage of Scripture, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the "he" who "confirms a covenant [An agreement] for one Week" [The Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist. The second, and same "he," who stops Israel from the offerings and sacrificing in the temple of God, and the third, and same "he," who breaks his covenant in the middle of the Week [After 3.5 of the 7 year total], and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15, in His Olivet Discourse, about the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the age.

In verse 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below.

Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD.
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth].

Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No reason was ever given.

"He [The antichrist] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." Vs 4. [The abomination of desolation, confirming Dan.9:27 and Mt.24:15]. See also 2 Thes.2:4.

The rapture of the Church and verse 3 confirmed:
In verse 7: "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he [The saints - Church] is taken out of the way."

The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the one body of Christ, who bear the Holy Spirit within each of us [Eph.1:13-14], the Church of Jesus Christ. The very same as those who will participate in the "apostasia," the "departure," [the rapture] of the Church, in vs 3. Immediately following that:

In verse 8: "And then the lawless one [The antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming." Vs 8. [See Rev.19:17-21].

The antichrist is found in all three of the "he's" in Dan. 9:27, confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15; Mk.13:14 and by Paul, in 2 Thes.2:3, 4 and 8.

 

 

Quasar93
 

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On 4/15/2018 at 11:51 PM, Quasar93 said:

 

2 Thess.2:3 said the following, according to the historic translation of it, as documented in the following:

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a DEPARTURE   first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

2 Thess.2:1-8: The precise timing of the rapture of the Church:
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation of Dan.9:27] has already come." 2 Thes.2:1-2. Which is a direct reference to 1 Thes.4:17 and the theme of Paul's entire pre-trib rapture message in 2 Thes.2:1-8. When we will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. [Parenthetics mine].

The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to in vs 2, alludes to Dan.9:27, when God will intervene into the affairs of man for the last time, culminating in the second coming of Jesus to the earth. In that passage of Scripture, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the "he" who "confirms a covenant [An agreement] for one Week" [The Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist. The second, and same "he," who stops Israel from the offerings and sacrificing in the temple of God, and the third, and same "he," who breaks his covenant in the middle of the Week [After 3.5 of the 7 year total], and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15, in His Olivet Discourse, about the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the age.

In verse 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below.

Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD.
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth].

Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No reason was ever given.

"He [The antichrist] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." Vs 4. [The abomination of desolation, confirming Dan.9:27 and Mt.24:15]. See also 2 Thes.2:4.

The rapture of the Church and verse 3 confirmed:
In verse 7: "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he [The saints - Church] is taken out of the way."

The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the one body of Christ, who bear the Holy Spirit within each of us [Eph.1:13-14], the Church of Jesus Christ. The very same as those who will participate in the "apostasia," the "departure," [the rapture] of the Church, in vs 3. Immediately following that:

In verse 8: "And then the lawless one [The antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming." Vs 8. [See Rev.19:17-21].

The antichrist is found in all three of the "he's" in Dan. 9:27, confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15; Mk.13:14 and by Paul, in 2 Thes.2:3, 4 and 8.

 

Quasar93
 

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Quasar93, I see you are still peddling the "apostasia is the rapture" lie. Do you not realize contextually that you are making Paul say "the rapture will not come until the rapture comes".

2Th 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Notice that Paul sets the subject: "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him". He Identifies the parousia (coming) and our gathering to Him as the day of Christ. The day of Christ, is the coming of Christ with emphasis upon His interaction with His church, whereas, the day of the Lord, is the coming of Christ with emphasis upon His interaction with the world. They happen at the same time, at the singular second coming of Christ.

Heb 9:28  So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Paul then reminds them that there are two notable events that must happen before Christ's return will be at hand, or imminent, the falling away and the revelation of the man of sin (Beast). As Jesus said there would be a great departure from the faith (many will be offended and deceived), and the revelation of the man of sin would bring great tribulation (Matt 24).

If you are a believer, reading this, prepare yourself now for the greatest persecution that the church will ever face.

Rev 12:11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Hallelujah

The End of the Age Diagram March 2018 jpeg.jpg

 

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2 hours ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Quasar93, I see you are still peddling the "apostasia is the rapture" lie. Do you not realize contextually that you are making Paul say "the rapture will not come until the rapture comes".

2Th 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Notice that Paul sets the subject: "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him". He Identifies the parousia (coming) and our gathering to Him as the day of Christ. The day of Christ, is the coming of Christ with emphasis upon His interaction with His church, whereas, the day of the Lord, is the coming of Christ with emphasis upon His interaction with the world. They happen at the same time, at the singular second coming of Christ.

Heb 9:28  So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Paul then reminds them that there are two notable events that must happen before Christ's return will be at hand, or imminent, the falling away and the revelation of the man of sin (Beast). As Jesus said there would be a great departure from the faith (many will be offended and deceived), and the revelation of the man of sin would bring great tribulation (Matt 24).

If you are a believer, reading this, prepare yourself now for the greatest persecution that the church will ever face.

Rev 12:11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Hallelujah

The End of the Age Diagram March 2018 jpeg.jpg

 

 

Your attempt to prove the documentation of the historic translation of 2 Thess.2:3, recorded in my post you quoted, to be false; reveals your only interest is in an effort to prove your views; instead of seeking the intended Scriptural interpretation.  Please explain to me why Jerome translated the Greek "apostasia," which Paul used, to reveal the DEPARTURE of the Church, to the Latin word, "discessio," he used in the translation of the Greek Septuagint to the Latin Vulgate, which also means DEPARTURE or "TO DEPART?"

I suggest you cut out attempting to make the Scriptures say something, they are not saying at all!

 

Quasar93   

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49 minutes ago, Quasar93 said:

Your attempt to prove the documentation of the historic translation of 2 Thess.2:3, recorded in my post you quoted, to be false; reveals your only interest is in an effort to prove your views; instead of seeking the intended Scriptural interpretation.  Please explain to me why Jerome translated the Greek "apostasia," which Paul used, to reveal the DEPARTURE of the Church, to the Latin word, "discessio," he used in the translation of the Greek Septuagint to the Latin Vulgate, which also means DEPARTURE or "TO DEPART?"

I suggest you cut out attempting to make the Scriptures say something, they are not saying at all!

 

Being fluent in Greek it always amazes me to watch people butcher the language.  One has to search deep to come away with departing, which is why it is not translated as such, because it really isn't the intended usage.  Even if one wants to translate it as departing, it doesn't change the passage in context.

The topic is His coming and our gathering (rapture), and says that this will not take place before the falling away (or departing as you prefer).  So what your rendering does is claim a rapture before a rapture.  That is attempting to make scripture say something it does not, not to mention it is nonsensical.  

God bless

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10 hours ago, wingnut- said:

 

Being fluent in Greek it always amazes me to watch people butcher the language.  One has to search deep to come away with departing, which is why it is not translated as such, because it really isn't the intended usage.  Even if one wants to translate it as departing, it doesn't change the passage in context.

The topic is His coming and our gathering (rapture), and says that this will not take place before the falling away (or departing as you prefer).  So what your rendering does is claim a rapture before a rapture.  That is attempting to make scripture say something it does not, not to mention it is nonsensical.  

God bless

 

The original translation history of 2 Thess.2:3 was already previously posted.  It id too bad, posts on threads are not numbered as it would make reference to them so much easier.

>>>2 Thess.2:3 said the following, according to the original historic translation of it, as documented in the following for 16 centuries, including the first seven English translations of the Bible, until altered in the 17th, explained in the following:

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a DEPARTURE   first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

2 Thess.2:1-8: The precise timing of the rapture of the Church:
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation of Dan.9:27] has already come." 2 Thes.2:1-2. Which is a direct reference to 1 Thes.4:17 and the theme of Paul's entire pre-trib rapture message in 2 Thes.2:1-8. When we will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. [Parenthetics mine].

The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to in vs 2, alludes to Dan.9:27, when God will intervene into the affairs of man for the last time, culminating in the second coming of Jesus to the earth. In that passage of Scripture, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the "he" who "confirms a covenant [An agreement] for one Week" [The Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist. The second, and same "he," who stops Israel from the offerings and sacrificing in the temple of God, and the third, and same "he," who breaks his covenant in the middle of the Week [After 3.5 of the 7 year total], and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15, in His Olivet Discourse, about the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the age.

In verse 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below.

Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD.
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth].

Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No reason was ever given.

"He [The antichrist] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." Vs 4. [The abomination of desolation, confirming Dan.9:27 and Mt.24:15]. See also 2 Thes.2:4.

The rapture of the Church and verse 3 confirmed:
In verse 7: "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he [The saints - Church] is taken out of the way."

The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the one body of Christ, who bear the Holy Spirit within each of us [Eph.1:13-14], the Church of Jesus Christ. The very same as those who will participate in the "apostasia," the "departure," [the rapture] of the Church, in vs 3. Immediately following that:

In verse 8: "And then the lawless one [The antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming." Vs 8. [See Rev.19:17-21].

The antichrist is found in all three of the "he's" in Dan. 9:27, confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15; Mk.13:14 and by Paul, in 2 Thes.2:3, 4 and 8.<<<

 

 

Quasar93
 

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42 minutes ago, Quasar93 said:

The original translation history of 2 Thess.2:3 was already previously posted.

 

I don't need a translation history, I can read the original text for myself.  Regardless of the desire to change the word to departing, does not change the context of the passage.

Here is the topic of discussion, from verse 1.

 

II Thessalonians 2   Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,

 

His coming and our being gathered together, one event.  

 

II Thessalonians 2: 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

 

Here Paul tells us that the event is called the day of the Lord.  The event is still what was stated in verse 1, His coming and our being gathered =  day of the Lord.

 

II Thessalonians 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

 

Don't be deceived Paul warns, because that day, being the aforementioned day of the Lord, will NOT come, unless the rebellion, falling away, or departing as you prefer, comes first.  So as I already pointed out, your position is nonsensical, since the gathering or rapture is part of the event that comes after the rebellion, falling away, or departing.  Doesn't matter what you want to call it, the point is, in context, it happens prior to the rapture as Paul says plainly.

God bless

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13 hours ago, wingnut- said:

 

I don't need a translation history, I can read the original text for myself.  Regardless of the desire to change the word to departing, does not change the context of the passage.

Here is the topic of discussion, from verse 1.

 

II Thessalonians 2   Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,

 

His coming and our being gathered together, one event.  

 

II Thessalonians 2: 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

 

Here Paul tells us that the event is called the day of the Lord.  The event is still what was stated in verse 1, His coming and our being gathered =  day of the Lord.

 

II Thessalonians 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

 

Don't be deceived Paul warns, because that day, being the aforementioned day of the Lord, will NOT come, unless the rebellion, falling away, or departing as you prefer, comes first.  So as I already pointed out, your position is nonsensical, since the gathering or rapture is part of the event that comes after the rebellion, falling away, or departing.  Doesn't matter what you want to call it, the point is, in context, it happens prior to the rapture as Paul says plainly.

God bless

 

The following is a message to wingnut from Locknut:  To reveal how far off you are.  Where did you obtain your qualifications to teach eschatology?  The rapture of the Church and the second coming of Jesus WITH His Church, are TWO SEPARATE events.  Review the second post of the four post thread in the following link proven by Scriptural fact that you call "nonsensical:"

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/deeperwalk/the-biblical-teaching-of-the-pre-trib-rapture-of-t-t19401898.html

 

 

Quasar93

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On 4/20/2018 at 11:44 AM, Quasar93 said:

 

Your attempt to prove the documentation of the historic translation of 2 Thess.2:3, recorded in my post you quoted, to be false; reveals your only interest is in an effort to prove your views; instead of seeking the intended Scriptural interpretation.  Please explain to me why Jerome translated the Greek "apostasia," which Paul used, to reveal the DEPARTURE of the Church, to the Latin word, "discessio," he used in the translation of the Greek Septuagint to the Latin Vulgate, which also means DEPARTURE or "TO DEPART?"

I suggest you cut out attempting to make the Scriptures say something, they are not saying at all!

 

Quasar93   

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Quasar93, your faith in the work of Thomas Ice, will only lead to ever more false teaching on your part. This a shameful attempt on your part to concoct an explicit statement of a pre-trib rapture where none exists. It is my experience having followed the teaching of Thomas Ice for some time that he is not interested in truth, he appears to only be interested in that which props up the false teaching (pre-tribulationism) that he is so heavily invested in. Even the late Dr. Walvoord spoke against the foolishness of trying to make apostasia mean the rapture.

Your lack of linguistic understanding leaves you vulnerable to all the "supposed evidence" that Ice heaps up. He has you believing that the verb cognates of the noun apostasia can be used to define its meaning. Thomas Ice should know better, but he is happy to give people like you what you want to hear. It just builds his following.

Concerning your question to me, there is nothing wrong with the word departure. In fact all the uses of the noun apostasia in Koine Greek refer to either a religious or political departure. It isn't until the fifth century, long after the Koine period, that there is record of even one use of departure (apostasia) in the physical/spatial sense.

Paul Feinberg wrote, “If one searches for the uses of the noun “apostasy” in the 355 occurrences over the 300-year period between the second century B.C. and the first century A.D., one will not find a single instance where this word refers to a physical departure.” He is a pre-tribulationist, but he's doing real research unlike what Thomas Ice is feeding you. Ice heaps up vast amounts of meaningless tripe in an attempt to weary those searching for truth.

You would do well to expand you research of the subject at hand.

Hallelujah

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