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Why Christians Don’t (and Won’t) Support Gun Control


Guest shiloh357

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On 2/23/2018 at 8:17 AM, shiloh357 said:

No teachers are going to be pressured into it.

This is probably more hopeful than realistic. I certainly hope teachers aren't pressured into carrying, either. However, it is probably a little naive to think that there won't be principals that do exactly that.

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1 hour ago, one.opinion said:
On 2/23/2018 at 8:17 AM, shiloh357 said:

No teachers are going to be pressured into it.

This is probably more hopeful than realistic. I certainly hope teachers aren't pressured into carrying, either. However, it is probably a little naive to think that there won't be principals that do exactly that.

Ahh, so I discover this evening that President Trump wants to give bonuses to teachers to carry. Incentive won't select any better than direct pressure.

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5 hours ago, one.opinion said:

Ahh, so I discover this evening that President Trump wants to give bonuses to teachers to carry. Incentive won't select any better than direct pressure.

The ones who don't want to carry won't do it, regardless of the bonuses.   Besides, it is not different then offering hazard pay.   If they were trying pressure them, they would be laying guilt trips on teachers, or making their continued employment conditional on carrying.   Simply offering a bonus won't change minds that are already made up.

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8 hours ago, one.opinion said:

Ahh, so I discover this evening that President Trump wants to give bonuses to teachers to carry. Incentive won't select any better than direct pressure.

I hope there will be more teachers to pick up the challenge of the gun without fear and protect the children young or old. I doubt many principals would...too many are perfect examples of the “Peter principle” IMHO and experience. Though I can think of one who would do anything to protect his students and teachers.

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Earlier in the thread someone quoted Luke 9, remarking on the fact that when the Lord sent out the twelve, and indeed the seventy following, He sent them out without  any form of defence, and we are told later in Luke 22:35 that they lacked nothing.  God not only empowered them but He provided for them as well.  Yet in Luke 22:36 He used those important words, 'But now', for a change was taking place.

'And He said to them, "But now, he who has a purse, let him take it, and likewise his wallet. And he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."

This was not for His own defence, as we see later when He healed Malchus (Luke 22:50,51; John 18:10), but for theirs, for He would no longer be with them, and they would be scattered abroad.  

The thought of a teacher having to carry a firearm is alarming, but there should be high security within every school to prevent the possibility of anyone entering with a weapon of any sort.  That way there would be no need of anyone contemplating having to use a weapon.

 

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Christine said:

The thought of a teacher having to carry a firearm is alarming, but there should be high security within every school to prevent the possibility of anyone entering with a weapon of any sort.  That way there would be no need of anyone contemplating having to use a weapon.

Agreed, I would rather see this strategy implemented.

 

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I stumbled into this story this evening:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/03/16/calif-teacher-apologizes-for-firing-gun-in-class-but-offers-no-explanation/?utm_term=.323298db251e

Teachers have enough to deal with day-to-day without adding firearm safety to what they need to keep under control. The teacher is quite popular and students have signed a petition trying to save his job, but good intentions do not necessarily result in good outcomes.

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Guest shiloh357
On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 8:26 AM, Christine said:

Earlier in the thread someone quoted Luke 9, remarking on the fact that when the Lord sent out the twelve, and indeed the seventy following, He sent them out without  any form of defence, and we are told later in Luke 22:35 that they lacked nothing.  God not only empowered them but He provided for them as well.  Yet in Luke 22:36 He used those important words, 'But now', for a change was taking place.

'And He said to them, "But now, he who has a purse, let him take it, and likewise his wallet. And he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."

This was not for His own defence, as we see later when He healed Malchus (Luke 22:50,51; John 18:10), but for theirs, for He would no longer be with them, and they would be scattered abroad.  

The thought of a teacher having to carry a firearm is alarming, but there should be high security within every school to prevent the possibility of anyone entering with a weapon of any sort.  That way there would be no need of anyone contemplating having to use a weapon.

Security can't be everywhere at once and it takes time to get from one location to the other and the shooting in Parkland proves that you can't always depend on the people who are tasked with defending you.

If a teacher in Parkland had possessed a firearm and killed the Parkland shooter, there would be  many grateful parents who would be thanking that teacher for saving the lives of their children. 

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5 hours ago, one.opinion said:

I stumbled into this story this evening:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/03/16/calif-teacher-apologizes-for-firing-gun-in-class-but-offers-no-explanation/?utm_term=.323298db251e

Teachers have enough to deal with day-to-day without adding firearm safety to what they need to keep under control. The teacher is quite popular and students have signed a petition trying to save his job, but good intentions do not necessarily result in good outcomes.

Yeah, that is one story.   But there are a lot of teachers who already own firearms and are qualified to carry them legally and have said that they would have no problem carrying one to protect their students.   

They are the last line of defense and security doesn't always work, as we have seen.

 "If govt institutions can't stop a shooter after
- he threatens to kill his fellow students
- says he's gonna be a school shooter
- the FBI is warned by family
- he's reported to the Sheriff for violence 23 times

Don't come near my right to defend myself from madmen like that." ~ Liz Wheeler, One America News

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9 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Security can't be everywhere at once and it takes time to get from one location to the other and the shooting in Parkland proves that you can't always depend on the people who are tasked with defending you.

If a teacher in Parkland had possessed a firearm and killed the Parkland shooter, there would be  many grateful parents who would be thanking that teacher for saving the lives of their children. 

Hi,

Hard to comprehend the "stand down" order the city police school security officer was barking out to the sheriff department deputies. Unfathomable! No "system" is going to workout to provide safety under attack if all stand down in the face of violence.

At Florida, where this awful event occurred, way back in 2002 there was a new or re-education  of SWAT teams, police departments, and school administrative personnel along with staffs, that had interest and need to know how to handle all hazards.

The biggest change taught then  was that the first responders were to no longer stand down and wait for a command center to be established, and commander to arrive on scene. It was empathically changed to; first responder on the scene goes in immediately and so do all others as they arrive. The tactic is then to shoot to kill all that moves wrong or looks out of place.

That strategy recognizes that by utilizing that tactic some innocents may get killed, but it had  been deemed since 2002 to be the best way to save the most people. There was/is a lot more to it, but that was/is at the heart of the change. Funding was also begun, budgeted, and grants given out, even back then, to provide for cameras and software that lets police and fire crews take over the school cameras from their vehicles as they approach to the scene so that they would have  view before they even arrived. We even received some of that funding. "Our" schools are tight very tight islands of security that are constantly being reviewed  and upgraded as any flaw is seen to exist or as circumstance changes. Yet  we do rely on humans, and humans can and do fail. This latest being the most unfathomable failure of all. I don't think anyone ever said in training, "What if the security force freezes and fails to respond?"

For all the bad happenings the greatest risk for violence comes from the noncustodial parent that gets  upset and tries to kidnap their own children from school. The schools I have been associated with have had  really tight security since 2002 when we all hardened our facilities inside and out, and started having drills as part of the fire drill system so that kids and staff have knowledge of what to do.

But obviously really bad things can still happen, and will  if responders don't respond.

It is at it's core a spiritual vacancy that is the problem. There is no one physical response answer, but all physical responses should be considered, tested, then the best also enacted, and funded for continuous use and prevention. To me it is a spiritual warfare battle that got lost at this instance. It caused much physical death to occur.  Poor training too perhaps, but very weak faith and no honor to do one's duty when the chips are down and one's own life is at high risk.

ps-Schools do look like prisons today, and in fact they are day prisons.

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