Michael's relationship to the middle of the week

[Steve Conley]

Understanding the Activity of Michael the Archangel in the Middle of the Seventieth Week

In this brief post, I would like to make a strong case for Michael the archangel being the restrainer that Paul says is withholding the revelation of the man of sin until it is God's determined time.

Michael's suitability to be the restrainer

The Holy Scriptures present Michael as the mightiest of the Heavenly Host. He is seen opposing Satan on a handful of occasions in the Scriptures. Jude tells us that Michael contended with the Devil over the body of Moses, whom he rebuked in the name of the Lord. As recorded in Daniel 10, it is Michael that dealt with the prince of Persia when he had detained Gabriel on his way with a message for Daniel. In the future Michael and his angels will fight a war in heaven with Satan and his angels, after which he will cast Satan to the earth. It is he who appears to have been tasked with the responsibility to hold back the revelation of the man of sin until it is the right time.

Michael's unique relationship to the middle of the seventieth week

In the future eschatological period known as Daniel's seventieth week, the archangel Michael will play a significant role. We find him in three passages that present events that take place in the middle of the week.

1) Michael stands up and an unparalleled time of trouble begins (Dan 12:1)

Dan 11:45  And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Dan 12:1  And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2  And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Dan 12:7  And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

The context of the end of Daniel chapter 11 is the activities of the Beast in the end of the age. In chapter 11 we learn characteristics about him and see some of his military activities. The chapter ends with him placing the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain. This location appears to be Mt Zion in Jerusalem. The significance of this is that it is at that time (Dan 12:1) that Michael makes a change in his activity which results in an unparalleled time of trouble (Dan 12:1). This time of trouble is consistent with the great tribulation Jesus spoke of. We also see that there is a unique period length that is mentioned in relation to what is taking place in the beginning of chapter 12. The length that is given is "a time, times, and an half" or 3 1/2 years. Seven times in the Scriptures we find this same length spoken of in various forms: 1260 days, 42 months, and 3 1/2 years. It appears each time that they are associated with the second half of the seventieth week. The obvious conclusion is that the change in activity by Michael takes place in the middle of the week.

2) War in heaven, Satan cast to the earth (Rev 12:7-14)

Rev 12:7  And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8  And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9  And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10  And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12  Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13  And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14  And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15  And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16  And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17  And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Michael and his angels will fight a war in heaven with the dragon (Satan) and his angels, after which Satan is cast to the earth having great wrath. Once upon the earth Satan goes after a remnant of Israel (represented by the woman) but she is hid and fed by God in the wilderness for 1260 days (Rev 12:6). The 1260 days indicate that the war in heaven took place in the middle of the week. Again, we see that Michael is very prominent in the middle of the week.

3) The abomination of desolation starts the great tribulation (Matt 24:15, 21; Dan 9:27)

Mat 24:15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Mat 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Dan 9:27  And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The temple is defiled in the middle of the week which initiates the great tribulation. This is consistent with the Dan 12 passage but Michael is not mentioned by name or referred to.

4) The revelation of the man of sin (2Thess 2:3-10)

2Th 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5  Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6  And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

In Paul's instruction to the Thessalonians, he tells them that before the day of Christ can come there must be a falling away first and the man of sin be revealed. He also mentions that there is one who is withholding the revelation of the man of sin and that they, the Thessalonians,  knew who it was. This revelation would involve the man of sin sitting in the temple and shewing himself to be God. Paul also says that this Antichrist shall receive power from Satan. 

We already know from the previous passages we looked at that the abomination of desolation takes place in the middle of the week and it begins the great tribulation. Here we see further details concerning the defiling of the temple and learn of one hindering the work of the mystery of iniquity. It is said that this hindering will continue "until he be taken out of the way." It is interesting to note that the last Greek word in verse seven is "mesos" which means middle even though it is translated "the way". It is as if Paul is saying that the restrainer will continue to hinder until the middle. I wonder what middle he was referring to. Could it be the middle of the week? Could this restrainer be Michael who is associated with the middle of the week?

I believe Michael is the restrainer of 2Thes 2.

All praise, honour, and glory be unto the Lord Jesus Christ.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Steve_S
Removed title from post.

[Steve Conley]

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Yowm, thanks for the info. Do I delete this topic or do I make another?

 

Thanks for your help

[Omegaman 3.0]

Last time I had an opinion on the topic, I also voted for Michael, lol. Then I made a video about it:

 

[wingnut-]

I am of the same opinion as well.  

[Steve_S]

No need to request deletion, I moved it to the eschatology section.

[Steve Conley]

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Thank you Steve_S

[angels4u]

As I mentioned in former posts , the Holy Spirit is  what I firmly believe restrainer.

This article is pretty good in explaining:

 

Question: "Who / What is the restrainer in 2 Thessalonians 2:6?"

Answer: Students of biblical prophecy have differing views over the identity of the restrainer in 2 Thessalonians 2:6–7. He is called “the one who restrains” in some translations (ESV, NASB); other translations call Him “the one who holds back” (NIV), “he who letteth” (KJV), or “he who is keeping down” (YLT). Whoever the restrainer is, He is someone of great power who is hindering the advance of the Antichrist and preventing the satanic kingdom from overwhelming the world.

In his second epistle to the Thessalonians, Paul assured the church that they were not yet living in the Day of the Lord, that is, the end times’ judgment had not yet begun. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 he says, “Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.” According to God’s timetable, the Day of the Lord and the accompanying judgment will not start until two things happen: a global rebellion occurs and the Antichrist is revealed. Paul then mentions what is currently keeping the evil in check: “And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed” (verses 6–8).

Paul does not specifically identify what or who the restraining force is, since the Thessalonians already knew. Many scholars have speculated as to the identity of the restrainer, naming the restraining force as 1) the Roman government; 2) gospel preaching; 3) the binding of Satan; 4) the providence of God; 5) the Jewish state; 6) the church; 7) the Holy Spirit; and 8) Michael the archangel. We believe the restrainer is none other than the Holy Spirit, or we could say the Holy Spirit working through the New Testament church.

Supporting the idea that the Holy Spirit within the church is the restrainer is the fact that the restrainer is referenced both as a thing (neuter gender, verse 6) and as a person (masculine gender, verse 7). Also, the power delaying Satan’s masterplan to unveil his false messiah must be of God. It makes much more sense to say that the Holy Spirit is curbing the devil than a political entity or even an angel. The Holy Spirit of God is the only Person with sufficient (supernatural) power to do this restraining.

Of course, the Spirit works through believers to accomplish this. The church, indwelt by the Spirit of God, has always been part of what holds society back from the swelling tide of lawless living. At some point, Paul says, the Spirit will “step aside” from His restraining work, allowing sin to have dominion over mankind. Second Thessalonians 2:7 can be literally rendered, “The secret of lawlessness is already working, only it cannot be revealed until he who now withholds disappears from the midst.” We believe this “disappearing from the midst” will happen at the time the church leaves the earth at the rapture. The Holy Spirit will still be present in the earth, of course, but He will be taken out of the way in the sense that His unique sin-restraining ministry—through God’s people—will be removed (see Genesis 6:3).

Second Thessalonians 2 is clear that the removal of the restrainer’s influence precedes the revealing of the Antichrist. Given free rein during the tribulation, the lawless one will “use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders” to deceive the people of the earth (verses 9–10). After the Antichrist’s time is up, the Lord Jesus will return and overthrow the man of sin by “the breath of his mouth and destroy [him] by the splendor of his coming” (verse 8). Evil is restrained right now; once the Church Age ends, the hindrance to evil will be removed, and the rebellion will seem to be winning; however, the ultimate doom of evil is sure.
 

Edit by Omegaman 3.0:

Article is from gotquestions.org

https://www.gotquestions.org/restrainer.html

[Steve Conley]

On 2/19/2018 at 10:12 AM, angels4u said:

Supporting the idea that the Holy Spirit within the church is the restrainer is the fact that the restrainer is referenced both as a thing (neuter gender, verse 6) and as a person (masculine gender, verse 7). Also, the power delaying Satan’s masterplan to unveil his false messiah must be of God. It makes much more sense to say that the Holy Spirit is curbing the devil than a political entity or even an angel. The Holy Spirit of God is the only Person with sufficient (supernatural) power to do this restraining.

Of course, the Spirit works through believers to accomplish this. The church, indwelt by the Spirit of God, has always been part of what holds society back from the swelling tide of lawless living. At some point, Paul says, the Spirit will “step aside” from His restraining work, allowing sin to have dominion over mankind. Second Thessalonians 2:7 can be literally rendered, “The secret of lawlessness is already working, only it cannot be revealed until he who now withholds disappears from the midst.” We believe this “disappearing from the midst” will happen at the time the church leaves the earth at the rapture. The Holy Spirit will still be present in the earth, of course, but He will be taken out of the way in the sense that His unique sin-restraining ministry—through God’s people—will be removed (see Genesis 6:3).

Second Thessalonians 2 is clear that the removal of the restrainer’s influence precedes the revealing of the Antichrist. Given free rein during the tribulation, the lawless one will “use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders” to deceive the people of the earth (verses 9–10). After the Antichrist’s time is up, the Lord Jesus will return and overthrow the man of sin by “the breath of his mouth and destroy [him] by the splendor of his coming” (verse 8). Evil is restrained right now; once the Church Age ends, the hindrance to evil will be removed, and the rebellion will seem to be winning; however, the ultimate doom of evil is sure.

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

angels4u, concerning the neuter and masculine references to the restrainer, the same is true of the spiritual beings called angels. All the evidence points to Michael not a pre-trib rapture, that the Bible says nothing about, which removes the Holy Spirit indwelt church prior to the revelation of the Beast. It is evident that you are reading your eschatological model into the text. You are also using circular reasoning, trying to identify the restrainer as the Holy Spirit indwelling the church, whose rapture frees the Beast to be revealed. At the same time you infer a pre-trib rapture, because the Holy Spirit indwelt church must be removed for the man of sin to be revealed thereby beginning the great tribulation.

It is a common thing that I see, for one to disregard strong evidence for circular reasoning when one has an artificial eschatological model through which all the Holy Scriptures are filtered. By artificial, I mean that the model he or she holds has not been derived organically through his or her personal study and Bible reading but was given to him or her as a babe in Christ, and became the framework upon which all the Scriptures were interpreted. This has caused much eisegesis and wresting of the scriptures.

The Scriptures state emphatically that the church is not appointed unto God's wrath (1Thes 5:9; Rev 3:10). Therefore Before, the wrath of God is poured out, all the elect shall be taken to be with Jesus in the Fathers house (Matt 24:31; 1Thes 4:16-17; Rev 7:9-17; John 14:3)

God's, day of the Lord, wrath will come suddenly to the unbeliever

1Th 5:2  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3  For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

God's wrath falls upon those who persecuted the church when Jesus is revealed, at which time the church has rest from persecution

2Th 1:6  Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7  And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Before the day of Christ (or day of the Lord*) can come, there must be a marked departure from the faith, and the Beast revealed in the temple, thereby defiling it (the abomination of desolation). * Both the day of the Lord and the day of Christ begin at the same time, at Christ's singular future return, known as His parousia (return and continuing presence). The one is Christ's return with emphasis upon His interaction with the world, the other is Christ's return with emphasis upon His interaction with His church.

2Th 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Before the man of sin can be revealed the restrainer must stand up in the middle of the week

2Th 2:5  Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6  And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

The beast is revealed in the middle of the week, standing in the temple demanding to be worshiped as God

Mat 24:15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Dan 9:27  And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

This revelation defiles the temple and begins the great tribulation

Mat 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

God cuts short the great tribulation to save some of the elect alive upon the earth

Mat 24:22  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The great tribulation, the persecution of the elect and Israel, ends when the cosmic sign of Joel 2:31 appears

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Joe 2:31  The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

Christ's return follows this cosmic sign initiating the day of the Lord and the day of Christ

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Rev 6:12  And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13  And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14  And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15  And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16  And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17  For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

1Th 4:15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

If the sun, moon, and stars don't go dark until after the great tribulation (Matt 24:29) and the day of the Lord cannot begin until the sun, moon, and stars go dark (Joel 2:31) then God's wrath doesn't come suddenly upon the church's persecutors, until the church has been persecuted in the great tribulation, and raptured out on the day of His coming.

All praise, honour, and glory be unto the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

 

Edited February 22, 2018 by Steve Conley

[Steve Conley]

On 2/19/2018 at 1:03 AM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Last time I had an opinion on the topic, I also voted for Michael, lol. Then I made a video about it:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Omegaman, I just watched the videos, you did a good job confronting the real reason so many get this wrong. So many need the restrainer to be the Holy Spirit to help prop up an eschatological system that has no explicit evidence.

Thank you

Hallelujah

[Omegaman 3.0]

On 2/21/2018 at 6:43 AM, Steve Conley said:

Omegaman, I just watched the videos, you did a good job confronting the real reason so many get this wrong. So many need the restrainer to be the Holy Spirit to help prop up an eschatological system that has no explicit evidence.

Thank you

 

Thanks Steve,

Personally I do not think it is important for us to know what/who restrains, that certainly is not the point of Paul's comments, where he is just pointing out he already told them enough information that they should have known that is is not possible for the day of the Lord to have arrived since they were not even yet to the mid-point of Daniel's 70th week.

Glancing over the things you have said in this thread, I see only one thing that MIGHT be a faulty conclusion or oversight. You said:

Quote

The Scriptures state emphatically that the church is not appointed unto God's wrath. Therefore before the wrath of God is poured out, all the elect shall be taken to be with Jesus in the Fathers house. (1Thes 5:9; Rev 3:10)

I am not saying that your conclusions are wrong, but the "therefore" in the above quote, is not justifiable in my mind, at least based on the idea alone, that the church is not appointed unto wrath.

It strikes me that the wrath in that verse (1 Thess 5:9) is contrasted with it's alternative, that the church is appointed unto, that being the obtaining of salvation. It seems to me that that might be saying in essence that some are appointed unto eternal torment, while others are appointed to salvation from it.

Also, to be protected from God's wrath, if that was meant to apply to God's wrath upon the earth dwellers, the church does not need to be removed physically. God is perfectly capable of protecting His chosen, in the midst of problems, i.e. the plagues of Egypt, the flood, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, as he can also protect those in danger of the wrath of enemies as in the fiery furnace (Dan 3). In fact a great passage is in Rev 12 where it says:

11 “And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death. 12 “For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time.”

      13 And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. 14But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 And the serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, so that he might cause her to be swept away with the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and drank up the river which the dragon poured out of his mouth. 17 So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

 That is such an informative chapter, because in it we see lots of the elements we are discussing in this thread. For example, the dragon is specifically identified as Satan, the woman seems to be Israel (earlier called Jacob in the old Testament), since the dragon is out to get her and she was said to bring forth a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne. 6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

I cannot help but think that no one other than Jesus, was a male child who is to rule the nations with a rod on iron and who was caught up to God and His throne. We see there 2 times, that half a "week" is mentioned (one thousand two hundred and sixty days and a time and times and half a time). Sort of make you think of half of Daniel's 70th week.

Additionally we see that it is not only God who has sufficient power to battle Satan, since in the passage it is Michael an his angels, that toss Satan out of Heaven, contrary to the assertion of that Gotquestions article that Angels4u posted. Is Satan powerful? Sure, but he is not nearly omnipotent, not God's evil counterpart, he is just a created being, like other angels are.

So, we see that God can protect people on earth, during that time, as He does the Jews (apparently) who flee into the wilderness (verse 6). While this may well be a time of Jacobs trouble, that our pre-trib friends like to point out, it is said here, that it is Jews (at least some) as I understand this, who are given protection.

By contrast, there are others of this description of children of the woman. They are the ones who are NOT protected in the wilderness, instead, the dragon pursues them in his anger. They are described as the ones who hold to the testimony of Jesus. That has to be either messianic Jews, or Christians, but I see no difference, since there is neither Jew nor Greek (Gal 3:28) in Christ.

I do not really understand this fascination with hoping to be in a pre-trib rapture, somehow imagining that we will not suffer persection as Christians have over much of the world for 2000 years. What happened to taking up our cross, dieing to self daily, servants not being above their master, promises of tribulation and in fact 2 Tim 3:12 states specifically:

"Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted."
 

If we want to escape the rewards of martyrs, the perfection and purification that troubles bring, I think that speaks somewhat to the worldy perspective of this life, instead of having our eyes fixed on eternity, where looking back we will see that this was an insignificat blink of the eye.

16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him. 18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. Romans 8

2 Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. 4 And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. James 1

12 “Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. 13“But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. Matt 24

I am afraid that the (western especially) Church has become so fearful, lazy, and uncommitted, that we will be fortunate indeed, if we are not seen as lukewarm.

My blessed hope, is not in a pre-trib rapture, it is in my savior Who will return in glory, to change me into His likeness, and forever be with Him.

Sorry, got carried away making a small point  whether the "therefore" in your comment necesarrily leads to a conclusion of removal, that is all I meant to address.

Blessings to you!