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Esau hated by God (before birth)?


thomas t

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1 hour ago, simplejeff said:

How can God know someone before he/she is born?  There are only two possibilities:

a. We existed in another dimension before we are born

The correct answer is.. A

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Since you won't answer my question,yes we are sons of God.With that being said,we were with God when He created this earth

Job  38:7   "When the morning stars sang together, and ALL the sons of God shouted for Joy?"

 

Who were these "sons of God" [the stars that sang], and when did these sons of God sing for Joy?  We are talking about the angels here, that sang before the establishment of this earth age of the flesh.   All souls were there and Satan also was there with all of them.  Some how the people of this earth age are trying to forget Satan and the role that he played at the rebellion in that first earth age.  We see that Satan was not in the conversation with Job and his friends at this time.  They all have overlooked the overall plan of God.  However had Job known the plan of God, where would he have been then, when the foundations of this earth were laid and the angels were rejoicing?  Of course He would have been there with the rest of them, where we all were.  You see, we the elect of God were chosen before the foundations of this earth were laid, and so was Job. 

 

Can you not see we were there with Him?

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One must see the 3 ages in order to get the full understanding of scripture

Peter gives us all 3 of them

II Peter 3:5 "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:"

Most Christians today, and all of the worldly people today are willingly placing their selves in ignorance on this matter of the creation. Old as it is spoken of here is very ancient, goes far back before the time of Noah and Adam, and even before the creation of the animal world and the earth age as we know it now. Peter is telling you that in the far past, there was a first earth age. Not a different world or planet, but the same planet [earth] existing in a time frame prior to as the earth exist today. The same world, but a different world age or time frame.

II Peter 3:6 "Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:"

That world age or cosmos that existed in that ancient time of the past, and everything that was a part of it was destroyed completely. All life on it was completely done away with. God destroyed it completely and it happened at Satan's overthrow. Many people believe that this flood was the flood of Noah's day, however, the flood of Noah's day did not destroy this world age, life from before that flood carried right over into the dispensation that followed one year later, after the waters had subsided.

II Peter 3:7 "But the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

This is in reference to the second heaven and earth age which we are living in now. This earth age will not be destroyed until God's time of judgment on the ungodly men of this earth has come to a close. That time of perdition [destruction] is after the Millennium age, and after the Great white throne judgment. Then will come the consuming fire. Hebrews 12:19 tells us that "Our God is a consuming fire." There will be no destroying of the earth by nuclear warfare, nor by greenhouse gasses or flood or any other man made causes. God is reserving the final judgment of this earth and mankind for His own judgment. Before that time can come, the events or prophecies that concern this earth will all have taken place, and that includes the "great apostasy", or falling away when the entire world will go whoring after Satan, the Antichrist.

II Peter 3:13 "Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."

 

All 3 ages bolded in purple

 

https://www.theseason.org/2peter/2peter3.htm

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22 hours ago, thomas t said:

Although Esau hasn't been born yet, he was instantly hated by God, as is announced by that passage (my interpretation).

And now you ask: " If God knows [...] why are we going through this, that would be an act of a cruel God, yet I know for a fact that He is just..... "
 
My answer to this would be: Esau didn't have a bad life, in my opinion, as he had as many as three wives - Gen 28:9.

Question: What's better than having 3 wives?

Answer: ...not being hated by God from before you were born.

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Hi N2thelight,

while I wait for Jeff to respond to the discussion you're having with him, let me answer this opinion of your's:

3 hours ago, n2thelight said:

II Peter 3:6 "Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:"

That world age or cosmos that existed in that ancient time of the past, and everything that was a part of it was destroyed completely. All life on it was completely done away with. God destroyed it completely and it happened at Satan's overthrow. Many people believe that this flood was the flood of Noah's day, however, the flood of Noah's day did not destroy this world age, life from before that flood carried right over into the dispensation that followed one year later, after the waters had subsided.

.. I'm one of the people who believe that this flood was the flood of Noah's day.

Even if some living beings did survive this, the world I believe to have been destroyed by the flood.

Here is why.

Reading the passage in context*, it can be seen that both the word "creation" and the word "world" are used - two different terms in Greek language, also. So I think they refer to different subjects. This would be the simple way of interpreting the Bible, I think. Whenever two different words occur in the same Bible passage, I believe them to describe two different things. Otherwise, the Bible would be misleading, I think.

I believe, creation means more than world. Maybe creation comprises the spiritual world, too, which can't be destroyed by floods.

So, creation is as old as the fathers like Adam and so on (see below), whereas this world is just as young as Noah when he stepped into the ark. That's at least my opinion.

 

Peter's aim in this passage, as I see it, was to refute the opinion, that everything has stayed the same from the beginning of creation. This is why, in my opinion, he cited an example of what effectively did change: the world, we live in.

So, in my opinion, both wording and context point to the interpretation that the world has been destroyed by the flood of Noah's day.

 

Regards,

Thomas

 

*

And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
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A better question:
How could God love a heart that for a bowl of soup would trade God's blessings upon the life?

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10 hours ago, enoob57 said:

A better question:
How could God love a heart that for a bowl of soup would trade God's blessings upon the life?

Exactly , 

God did not force him to despise his birthright . 

God's ability to know the past , present . and future notwithstanding .

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15 hours ago, thomas t said:

.. I'm one of the people who believe that this flood was the flood of Noah's day.

Even if some living beings did survive this, the world I believe to have been destroyed by the flood.

Here is why.

Here's why it can't be the flood of Noah

For that we go to Jeremiah,where we see the destruction of that first age

Jeremiah 4:23; "I beheld the earth, and, lo it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light."

Let's go to genesis

Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep."

Who is that Spirit of God? He is the Holy Spirit, and it is God's Spirit that moved upon the face of the waters.

In the Hebrew translation of the word, "was", as used in this verse "...the earth was without form,..."; in the original text it reads "became without form...". This same mistranslation of the word "became", and turning it into the word "was" is also present in Genesis 2:7. It should read there; "..and man became a living soul."

was

1961  hayah

hayah (haw-yaw); a primitive root [compare OT:1933]; to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):KJV - beacon,  altogether, be (-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall,  follow, happen,  have, last, pertain, quit (oneself-), require,  use.

void
922

bohuw (bo'-hoo); from an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, i.e. (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin:

KJV - emptiness, void.

The correct Hebrew translation from the Massoretic Hebrew text for the words, "without form"is "tohu-va bohu" in the Hebrew Strong's dictionary. So we see that the earth was not "created without form", but it "became [tohu] without form and void". Lets go to Strong's Hebrew dictionary, reference number 1961 to verify the word "was", that we read in this verse. "Yahah, haw-yaw; a prime root, to exit; to become, or come to pass." [#1961]

In Isaiah 45:18; "For thus saith the Lord That created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it; He hath established it He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: "I am the Lord; and there is none else."

This is God speaking as Isaiah is writing it down, and He is telling us that when He created the earth, it was not in vain. "Vain" is the same Hebrew word that we saw in Genesis 1:2, which was given as "void". God created this earth to be lived on, and to be inhabited. Genesis 1:1told us that God created the earth to be inhabited. The "Tohu", the "destruction", was not part of the creation plan of verse one, but came after the fall of Satan when one third of all the souls followed Satan in the first earth age, in verse two.

Now back to Jeremiah

Jeremiah 4:24; "I beheld the mountains, and lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly."

This is why the magnetic north is 90 miles off true north? God shook the earth and everything moved from its foundations at the time the destruction "tohu" took place.

Jeremiah 4:25; "I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled."

Did you get that? No man, no animals, and not even the birds were left alive. The earth was covered with water, and life could not exist. There was no boat floating around on the surface, for the span of time could have been for thousands of years, or a much greater time.

Jeremiah 4:26; "I beheld, and lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by His fierce anger."

In this flood there wasn't a tree or a blade of grass left with life in it. However, what about these "cities" that once existed? Yes there were cities at that time, and God's anger and fury against Satan, and the third of God's children that followed Satan, caused God to destroy that entire earth age, and all that was part of it.

That is what God meant in Hebrews 11:7 when He said, "I shook her once and know I'll shake her again." The only thing that will be left standing then, is that which is unshakeable, and it will only be those who have repented, and have Jesus Christ in their heart. They are those souls that were sealed in their minds, and did not bow to the Antichrist, his system, or take his name, nor his number.

Jeremiah 4:27; "For thus hath the Lord said, "The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end."

 

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5 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

Exactly , 

God did not force him to despise his birthright . 

God's ability to know the past , present . and future notwithstanding .

The bowl of soup came when he(Easu)was older,why was he hated before he was even born?

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YHVH is perfect in Judgment, and against all heresy (of life before conception, for example).

YHVH perfectly knows everyone's heart, remember ? 

YHVH always knew the sin in everyone's heart,  and nothing changes that, ever, even today.

YHVH knows the reasons for the heresy being promoted today,  each and every heresy.

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