Christian's going to hell

[Behold]

On 4/19/2018 at 11:53 PM, vlad said:

 

1).Please comment on  Matthew 25:41-46.

2). If we are already forgiven forever, why do we sincerely ask for forgiveness for our sins, that is also for your own sins, several times every day and every week, and every month, and never stop asking in the Lord's prayer?

 

Let me ask you a question, regarding what you have posted, so that you can consider something you are not considering when you are obviously trying to earn your salvation by your effort.

After the question, I'll post something you and all the other legalists who hang around this forum,  need to consider for a while......

1.) These things , these works you have posted, these self effort pursuits to continue to stay accepted by GOD,........ Let me ask you this....... if Jesus had not died on a Cross....... would any of these things you are worried about, all these self effort works.....would any of them save you or keep you saved ?   Would by doing them, cause God to accept you as His, if there was no Jesus on a Cross?

The answer is NO < !

So, its not a problem, if you love God with your LIFE,  (discipleship)...which is the ONLY reason you are to be doing  good works......but there is a big big  issue within your non-understanding of the Atonement, if you do not understand that all your listed self effort deeds, OF THEMSELVES, are useless with regards to becoming saved or remaining saved..

As Salvation is not about what YOU DO.....its only about what GOD HAS DONE FOR YOU, as THIS is what Saves, and never anything related to your lifestyle or "works".

No doubt you have read...>"present your body a living sacrifice"...."mortify your members"...."be holy as God is holy"......Right?........you've read these before?

But you dont realize, that NONE OF THESE WILL SAVE YOU, AS NONE OF THEM DEAL WITH YOUR SIN = ...... ONLY JESUS ON A CROSS HAS THE POWER TO SAVE, TO RECONCILE, AND TO REDEEM.

NEVER LIFESTYLE.....NEVER WORKS.........EVER.

 

Listen, Salvation is NOT, Jesus on a Cross, +  your self effort., because when you pursue God this way, you are subtracting CREDIT DUE HIM and CHRIST as the SOLE MEANS to save you.

LISTEN, there is ONE MEDIATOR, between you and GOD, ........and it is NOT YOUR SIN CONFESSION OR YOUR LIFESTYLE OR YOUR GOOD WORKS.

See, this is the curse of legalism,... and this is why Paul wrote Galatians 1:8......its for the purpose of showing you the gravity, the depth, and the abuse of the Blood of Jesus, ...whenever you decide to belittle it by trying to prove  YOU and your DEEDS and your LIFESTYLE have to be a part of the Atonement for it to be completed.

You are not a part of it. !

You did not die on a Cross. !

You get ZERO credit for what Christ died to deliver to this world for FREE......, and this is the reason that all legalist, ALL =  are  Galatians 1:8.

So, Dont stay there.

Its not a place that gives the Credit due Christ Alone, = for Redemption that He alone suffered to provide.

Legalism, and Legalist LITERALLY ROB Christ the Glory and Credit DUE HIM ALONE, as they are taking it for themselves by preaching and teaching that LIFESTYLE, is a part of SALVATION.

Galatians 1:8.

Dont do that.

Its fine to explain that the reason you live for God and work for Christ is because you ARE SAVED, but you must never rob Christ of the full credit for the Atonement that He suffered and died to provide, as the only way to be saved, by teaching that WORKS. YOU DO< are to be added TO THE EFFECT OF THE CROSS, for it to be effective.

This is blasphemy, this is doing despite to the Spirit of Grace......THIS IS TAKING CREDIT FOR WHAT YOU Didn't DIE ON A CROSS  TO DO......!!

SEE IT?

BETTER LOOK !

Never ever try to prove that YOUR works are required for salvation, as this demeans the Blood of Jesus, and it refutes AND CONTRIDICTS the Grace of God, and it proves that a legalist is cursed by their own TONGUE, AND  self-righteousnes POINT OF VIEW,  that they have substituted for the Atonement.

They are iNDEED "Fallen from GRACE".

They are INDEED > Galatians 1:8

Edited April 22, 2018 by Behold
syntax edit

[Willa]

Rom 7:15  For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do.

This person is trying to live the Christian life by his own effort.  He is doing his best to be good and righteous but is failing time after time.  

Rom 8:1  There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.  Rom 8:5  For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.  Rom 8:8  So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Rom 8:9  But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Gal 5:16  I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.  Gal 5:17  For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Gal 5:18  But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

The person who keeps his eyes on Jesus and the things of the Spirit, obeys the law of love to allow Christ in him to reach out in compassion to fulfill the needs of the people around him.  If they are grieving then weep with those who weep.  If they are in need of food then share food with them.  If they are in need of a cold glass of water on a hot day then supply that need.  If they need repentance and to receive Christ as their Lord and Savior, then lead them through the Scriptures to receive Him.  Restoring a building won't restore faith.  We are the temple of the Holy Spirit and only by Christ coming to live in us is faith restored.  Reading God's word restores faith.  

Rom 1:16  For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.  Rom 1:17  For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

 

[vlad]

7 hours ago, Behold said:

 

Let me ask you a question, regarding what you have posted, so that you can consider something you are not considering when you are obviously trying to earn your salvation by your effort.

After the question, I'll post something you and all the other legalists who hang around this forum,  need to consider for a while......

1.) These things , these works you have posted, these self effort pursuits to continue to stay accepted by GOD,........ Let me ask you this....... if Jesus had not died on a Cross....... would any of these things you are worried about, all these self effort works.....would any of them save you or keep you saved ?   Would by doing them, cause God to accept you as His, if there was no Jesus on a Cross?

The answer is NO < !

So, its not a problem, if you love God with your LIFE,  (discipleship)...which is the ONLY reason you are to be doing  good works......but there is a big big  issue within your non-understanding of the Atonement, if you do not understand that all your listed self effort deeds, OF THEMSELVES, are useless with regards to becoming saved or remaining saved..

As Salvation is not about what YOU DO.....its only about what GOD HAS DONE FOR YOU, as THIS is what Saves, and never anything related to your lifestyle or "works".

No doubt you have read...>"present your body a living sacrifice"...."mortify your members"...."be holy as God is holy"......Right?........you've read these before?

But you dont realize, that NONE OF THESE WILL SAVE YOU, AS NONE OF THEM DEAL WITH YOUR SIN = ...... ONLY JESUS ON A CROSS HAS THE POWER TO SAVE, TO RECONCILE, AND TO REDEEM.

NEVER LIFESTYLE.....NEVER WORKS.........EVER.

 

Listen, Salvation is NOT, Jesus on a Cross, +  your self effort., because when you pursue God this way, you are subtracting CREDIT DUE HIM and CHRIST as the SOLE MEANS to save you.

LISTEN, there is ONE MEDIATOR, between you and GOD, ........and it is NOT YOUR SIN CONFESSION OR YOUR LIFESTYLE OR YOUR GOOD WORKS.

See, this is the curse of legalism,... and this is why Paul wrote Galatians 1:8......its for the purpose of showing you the gravity, the depth, and the abuse of the Blood of Jesus, ...whenever you decide to belittle it by trying to prove  YOU and your DEEDS and your LIFESTYLE have to be a part of the Atonement for it to be completed.

You are not a part of it. !

You did not die on a Cross. !

You get ZERO credit for what Christ died to deliver to this world for FREE......, and this is the reason that all legalist, ALL =  are  Galatians 1:8.

So, Dont stay there.

Its not a place that gives the Credit due Christ Alone, = for Redemption that He alone suffered to provide.

Legalism, and Legalist LITERALLY ROB Christ the Glory and Credit DUE HIM ALONE, as they are taking it for themselves by preaching and teaching that LIFESTYLE, is a part of SALVATION.

Galatians 1:8.

Dont do that.

Its fine to explain that the reason you live for God and work for Christ is because you ARE SAVED, but you must never rob Christ of the full credit for the Atonement that He suffered and died to provide, as the only way to be saved, by teaching that WORKS. YOU DO< are to be added TO THE EFFECT OF THE CROSS, for it to be effective.

This is blasphemy, this is doing despite to the Spirit of Grace......THIS IS TAKING CREDIT FOR WHAT YOU DIE ON A CROSS  TO DO......!!

SEE IT?

BETTER LOOK !

Never ever try to prove that YOUR works are required for salvation, as this demeans the Blood of Jesus, and it refutes AND CONTRIDICTS the Grace of God, and it proves that a legalist is cursed by their own TONGUE, AND  self-righteousnes POINT OF VIEW,  that they have substituted for the Atonement.

They are iNDEED "Fallen from GRACE".

They are INDEED > Galatians 1:8

 

[vlad]

One great thing does not negate the other infinitely smaller thing. The main thing in salvation is that Jesus on the cross has the power to safe. That is clear and accepted. If I only do good deeds that alone will not save me that is clear. But doing good things does not make things worse. I think it makes things better. I can not prove it that it is better even for salvation but I guess that if someone stresses the point that good deeds and bad deeds are non-applicable in this matter at all it is his own decision. I think now that I accept that salvation comes from Jesus and God and also try to be better and hope it may be better during the judgement (though it is not in the scripture) is not a sin. Is all what is not written in the scripture wrong? I do not impose it on others. It is my decision for myself.  It is my free will. I think it is a good will. Do you have anything against it?                                                            

[7thseal]

On 2/24/2018 at 11:26 AM, shapes said:

There are many people who believe in Jesus, but

Explain why they believed?

[vlad]

36 minutes ago, Yowm said:

I believe our motive for doing good deeds makes all the difference in the world. Are we doing them to try to earn/attain/retain righteousness or are we doing them out of a thankful heart because we already have these things in Jesus?

Who is doing righteousness for righteousness' sake? We are doing it out of a thankful heart. That does not mean there is no reward for it. Matthew 5: 9-10 . We are not doing it to earn a reward but there is a reward, isn't  there?

[Behold]

2 hours ago, vlad said:

One great thing does not negate the other infinitely smaller thing. The main thing in salvation is that Jesus on the cross has the power to safe. That is clear and accepted. If I only do good deeds that alone will not save me that is clear. But doing good things does not make things worse. I think it makes things better. I can not prove it that it is better even for salvation but I guess that if someone stresses the point that good deeds and bad deeds are non-applicable in this matter at all it is his own decision. I think now that I accept that salvation comes from Jesus and God and also try to be better and hope it may be better during the judgement (though it is not in the scripture) is not a sin. Is all what is not written in the scripture wrong? I do not impose it on others. It is my decision for myself.  It is my free will. I think it is a good will. Do you have anything against it?                                                            

 

Hello my Brother.

You would agree that there is nothing we can do that will improve upon The Blood of Jesus's ability to redeem us ? ? ?

Thats all im really saying.

It really all boils down to giving full credit to God through Christ alone for our Salvation, knowing that we of ourselves can't redeem ourselves, and because we know this, we rejoice in the GRACE that God has provided for us for free,  so that we are able to be accepted by Him, by Faith.

There is even a lot of confusion amongst Believers about Faith, and the actual part it has to play in our eternal redemption.

The fact is, we are not saved by Faith, we are saved by God, THROUGH Faith., and this is why, "holding unto your faith" is just as useless to keep you saved, as holding onto your lawnmower, or holding unto your laundry.

The fact is, the truth is....God holds unto US, once He has accepted our faith to thereby give us His "gift of Righteousness", which allows Him to accept us, and KEEP US.

God accepts our faith to redeem us....through..... then we are kept redeemed by the sacrifice on the Cross that made it possible for Him to give us the Righteousness that He accepts on our behalf , for eternity, in the first place.

All of this is GRACE.....and that is why a real believer who has received the  Light of the Revelation of the Atonement, undertstands we are saved by Grace and Kept by Grace......as Salvation is God's Amazing Grace, eternally given for FREE.

The Legalist, absolutely cant comprehend that if God can't accept you based on your work before He saved you based on your faith,....  then How can they then believe He will continue to accept you based on your works after you are SAVED?  = (face palm).

They have a crazy Logic, circular,  which is to say, they are deceived within their own heretical  ideas that entirely omit the Blood of Christ's ability to do what it was given for FREE to do for the "world'..

Saten is the other one who does not understand "grace" or the reason for the Cross, as if He did, He would not have been deeply involved with Slaying the very one who IS Redemption, because OF the Cross.

So...

It is  """ GOD who began the work of Salvation within you, and HE will be faithful to COMPLETE IT """...... as it is His Salvation, that HE devised and implemented, that He is completing on your behalf.   Philippians 1:6

Salvation is NONE OF YOU<..... It is entirely  ALL OF GOD's Provision, through Christ ALONE.

 You then are expected to behave accordingly, which is your discipleship., while understanding that discipleship can't save you to begin with, and can't keep you saved, as it has no power to forgive your sin or create you to be born again.

A Legalist, who is trying to save themselves, can't grasp this, and will not try, as that is the effect of self righteousness, = that is the result of their hateful belligerent pride.

 

And regarding Living for the Lord......YOU SHOULD ........with the understanding that this is discipleship, and its what we do because of the Salvation that God has imputed to us, so that we are even become disciples, in truth.

A Legalist tries to subvert God's grace with their discipleship and will tell you that if you are not also doing this, you can "lose your salvation".

And the truth is, there are many who claim to be disciples of Christ, but in reality they are really just disciples within their own self righteousness, parading themselves around as real believers.

And this is why they will fight Grace and accuse anyone who is giving full credit to the Lord for what He alone has provided, of being "hyper Grace".

Legalists have assumed the role of savior of self as their "Grace", and reject Christ's Atonement and the Free Grace of God who provides it,  as being dangerous and  "hyper".

Real students of the Word, know that this is exactly what the Apostle Paul was dealing with  as well, regarding the Gospel of GRACE that He preached.

"Nothing new under the sun".

 

blessings, 

 

<B><

Edited April 22, 2018 by Behold

[Blood Bought 1953]

31 minutes ago, Behold said:

 

Hello my Brother.

You would agree that there is nothing we can do that will improve upon The Blood of Jesus's ability to redeem us ? ? ?

Thats all im really saying.

It really all boils down to giving full credit to God through Christ alone for our Salvation, knowing that we of ourselves can't redeem ourselves, and because we know this, we rejoice in the GRACE that God has provided for us for free,  so that we are able to be accepted by Him, by Faith.

There is even a lot of confusion amongst Believers about Faith, and the actual part it has to play in our eternal redemption.

The fact is, we are not saved by Faith, we are saved by God, THROUGH Faith., and this is why, "holding unto your faith" is just as useless to keep you saved, as holding onto your lawnmower, or holding unto your laundry.

The fact is, the truth is....God holds unto US, once He has accepted our faith to thereby give us His "gift of Righteousness", which allows Him to accept us, and KEEP US.

God accepts our faith to redeem us....through..... then we are kept redeemed by the sacrifice on the Cross that made it possible for Him to give us the Righteousness that He accepts on our behalf , for eternity, in the first place.

All of this is GRACE.....and that is why a real believer who has received the  Light of the Revelation of the Atonement, undertstands we are saved by Grace and Kept by Grace......as Salvation is God's Amazing Grace, eternally given for FREE.

The Legalist, absolutely cant comprehend that if God can't accept you based on your work before He saved you based on your faith,....  then How can they then believe He will continue to accept you based on your works after you are SAVED?  = (face palm).

They have a crazy Logic, circular,  which is to say, they are deceived within their own heretical  ideas that entirely omit the Blood of Christ's ability to do what it was given for FREE to do for the "world'..

Saten is the other one who does not understand "grace" or the reason for the Cross, as if He did, He would not have been deeply involved with Slaying the very one who IS Redemption, because OF the Cross.

So...

It is  """ GOD who began the work of Salvation within you, and HE will be faithful to COMPLETE IT """...... as it is His Salvation, that HE devised and implemented, that He is completing on your behalf.   Philippians 1:6

Salvation is NONE OF YOU<..... It is entirely  ALL OF GOD's Provision, through Christ ALONE.

 You then are expected to behave accordingly, which is your discipleship., while understanding that discipleship can't save you to begin with, and can't keep you saved, as it has no power to forgive your sin or create you to be born again.

A Legalist, who is trying to save themselves, can't grasp this, and will not try, as that is the effect of self righteousness, = that is the result of their hateful belligerent pride.

 

And regarding Living for the Lord......YOU SHOULD ........with the understanding that this is discipleship, and its what we do because of the Salvation that God has imputed to us, so that we are even become disciples, in truth.

A Legalist tries to subvert God's grace with their discipleship and will tell you that if you are not also doing this, you can "lose your salvation".

And the truth is, there are many who claim to be disciples of Christ, but in reality they are really just disciples within their own self righteousness, parading themselves around as real believers.

And this is why they will fight Grace and accuse anyone who is giving full credit to the Lord for what He alone has provided, of being "hyper Grace".

Legalists have assumed the role of savior of self as their "Grace", and reject Christ's Atonement and the Free Grace of God who provides it,  as being dangerous and  "hyper".

Real students of the Word, know that this is exactly what the Apostle Paul was dealing with  as well, regarding the Gospel of GRACE that He preached.

"Nothing new under the sun".

 

blessings, 

 

<B><

 

If one digs a little deeper they find that to the legalists, they pay lip- service to faith, the Blood, good works ,whatever.Their true savior is a timely, fortunate repentance.No matter what you believe—-faith, works, loving the good life, staying up-to- date with your list of things you need to be forgiven of—— it doesn’t matter. There is something out there that trumps everything you ever tried to do.Commit a sin and then die suddenly of a heart attack or car crash without having the good fortune of having time to repent of that sin and you are as Hell- Bound as Hitler himself.What a sad way to live.What a way to insult the Blood of Christ.What a way to hear “ I never knew you”

 

[vlad]

6 hours ago, Yowm said:

What is the reward?

I do not know what a reward in every particular case is. My subjective impression is that at some places people who call themselves Christians are many but good deeds are few if any. At some places. And I can't explain it either. 

[vlad]

19 hours ago, Behold said:

 

Hello my Brother.

You would agree that there is nothing we can do that will improve upon The Blood of Jesus's ability to redeem us ? ? ?

Thats all im really saying.

It really all boils down to giving full credit to God through Christ alone for our Salvation, knowing that we of ourselves can't redeem ourselves, and because we know this, we rejoice in the GRACE that God has provided for us for free,  so that we are able to be accepted by Him, by Faith.

There is even a lot of confusion amongst Believers about Faith, and the actual part it has to play in our eternal redemption.

The fact is, we are not saved by Faith, we are saved by God, THROUGH Faith., and this is why, "holding unto your faith" is just as useless to keep you saved, as holding onto your lawnmower, or holding unto your laundry.

The fact is, the truth is....God holds unto US, once He has accepted our faith to thereby give us His "gift of Righteousness", which allows Him to accept us, and KEEP US.

God accepts our faith to redeem us....through..... then we are kept redeemed by the sacrifice on the Cross that made it possible for Him to give us the Righteousness that He accepts on our behalf , for eternity, in the first place.

All of this is GRACE.....and that is why a real believer who has received the  Light of the Revelation of the Atonement, undertstands we are saved by Grace and Kept by Grace......as Salvation is God's Amazing Grace, eternally given for FREE.

The Legalist, absolutely cant comprehend that if God can't accept you based on your work before He saved you based on your faith,....  then How can they then believe He will continue to accept you based on your works after you are SAVED?  = (face palm).

They have a crazy Logic, circular,  which is to say, they are deceived within their own heretical  ideas that entirely omit the Blood of Christ's ability to do what it was given for FREE to do for the "world'..

Saten is the other one who does not understand "grace" or the reason for the Cross, as if He did, He would not have been deeply involved with Slaying the very one who IS Redemption, because OF the Cross.

So...

It is  """ GOD who began the work of Salvation within you, and HE will be faithful to COMPLETE IT """...... as it is His Salvation, that HE devised and implemented, that He is completing on your behalf.   Philippians 1:6

Salvation is NONE OF YOU<..... It is entirely  ALL OF GOD's Provision, through Christ ALONE.

 You then are expected to behave accordingly, which is your discipleship., while understanding that discipleship can't save you to begin with, and can't keep you saved, as it has no power to forgive your sin or create you to be born again.

A Legalist, who is trying to save themselves, can't grasp this, and will not try, as that is the effect of self righteousness, = that is the result of their hateful belligerent pride.

 

And regarding Living for the Lord......YOU SHOULD ........with the understanding that this is discipleship, and its what we do because of the Salvation that God has imputed to us, so that we are even become disciples, in truth.

A Legalist tries to subvert God's grace with their discipleship and will tell you that if you are not also doing this, you can "lose your salvation".

And the truth is, there are many who claim to be disciples of Christ, but in reality they are really just disciples within their own self righteousness, parading themselves around as real believers.

And this is why they will fight Grace and accuse anyone who is giving full credit to the Lord for what He alone has provided, of being "hyper Grace".

Legalists have assumed the role of savior of self as their "Grace", and reject Christ's Atonement and the Free Grace of God who provides it,  as being dangerous and  "hyper".

Real students of the Word, know that this is exactly what the Apostle Paul was dealing with  as well, regarding the Gospel of GRACE that He preached.

"Nothing new under the sun".

 

blessings, 

 

<B><

I agree with what you say. I am not a legalist.  As I understand real good deeds are not really  from people who believe themselves. They all are from God through the believers. My good deed if any is not my merit and there is nothing to be proud about it.