cannotfindavoice Posted February 27, 2018 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/27/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted February 27, 2018 In Matthew 27:45-46, it says, "Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour. 46And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is, "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" If Jesus is God, why would He say this? First of all, Jesus quoted Psalm 22:1 which begins with, "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?". Jesus quoted this Psalm in order to draw attention to it and the fact that He was fulfilling it there on the cross. Consider verses 11-18 in Psalm 22: Be not far from me, for trouble is near; For there is none to help.12 Many bulls have surrounded me; Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled me. 13 They open wide their mouth at me, As a ravening and a roaring lion. 14 I am poured out like water, And all my bones are out of joint; My heart is like wax; It is melted within me. 15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd, And my tongue cleaves to my jaws; And Thou dost lay me in the dust of death. 16 For dogs have surrounded me; A band of evildoers has encompassed me; They pierced my hands and my feet. 17 I can count all my bones. They look, they stare at me; 18 They divide my garments among them, And for my clothing they cast lots. The term 'dogs' was used by the Jews to refer to Gentiles (cf. Matt. 15:21-28). His heart has melted within Him (v. 14). During the crucifixion process, the blood loss causes the heart to beat harder and harder and become extremely fatigued. Dehydration occurs (v. 15). Verses 16b-18 speak of piercing His hands and feet and dividing his clothing by casting lots. This is exactly what happen as described in Matt. 27:35. Psalm 22 was written about 600 years before Christ was born. At that time, crucifixion had not yet been invented. Actually, the Phoenicians developed it and Rome borrowed the agonizing means of execution from them. So, when Rome ruled over Israel, it became the Roman means of capital punishment imposed upon the Jews whose biblical means of execution was stoning. Nevertheless, Jesus is pointing to the scriptures to substantiate His messianic mission. A further comment 2 Cor. 5:21 says, "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." It is possible that at some moment on the cross, when Jesus became sin on our behalf, that God the Father, in a sense, turned His back upon the Son. It says in Hab. 1:13 that God is too pure to look upon evil. Therefore, it is possible that when Jesus bore our sins in His body on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24), that the Father, spiritually, turned away. At that time, the Son may have cried out. One thing is for sure. We have no capacity to appreciate the utterly horrific experience of having the sins of the world put upon the Lord Jesus as He hung, in excruciating pain, from that cross. The physical pain was immense. The spiritual one must have been even greater. That shows us clearly how much God loves us. Why did Jesus say, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" "Why did Jesus say, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" “And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46). This cry is a fulfillment of Psalm 22:1, one of many parallels between that psalm and the specific events of the crucifixion. It has been difficult to understand in what sense Jesus was “forsaken” by God. It is certain that God approved His work. It is certain that He was innocent. He had done nothing to forfeit the favor of God. As His own Son - holy, harmless, undefiled, and obedient - God still loved Him. In none of these senses could God have forsaken Him. However, Isaiah tells us that “he bore our griefs and carried our sorrows; that he was wounded for our transgressions, and bruised for our iniquities; that the chastisement of our peace was laid upon him; that by his stripes we are healed” (Isaiah 53:4-5). He redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us (Galatians 3:13). He was made a sin-offering, and He died in our place, on our account, that He might bring us near to God. It was this, doubtless, which caused His intense sufferings. It was the manifestation of God’s hatred of sin, in some way which He has not explained, that Jesus experienced in that terrible hour. It was suffering endured by Him that was due to us, and suffering by which, and by which alone, we can be saved from eternal death. In those awful moments, Jesus was expressing His feelings of abandonment as God placed the sins of the world on Him – and because of that had to “turn away” from Jesus. As Jesus was feeling that weight of sin, He was experiencing separation from God for the only time in all of eternity. It was at this time that 2 Corinthians 5:21 occurred, “God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.” Jesus became sin for us, so He felt the loneliness and abandonment that sin always produces, except that in His case, it was not His sin – it was ours. Recommended Resource: Jesus: The Greatest Life of All by Charles Swindoll. God Bless 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted February 27, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) Read what the Aramaic actually says as well. It is interesting. Edited February 27, 2018 by Justin Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted February 27, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,152 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,442 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Because This: a snip from Bible Knowledge Commentary Instead, Jesus' cry combined (a) abandonment by God the Father in a judicial not relational sense, and (b) a genuine affirmation of Jesus' relationship to God. Bearing the curse of sin and God's judgment on sin (cf. Deut 21:22-23; 2 Cor 5:21; Gal 3:13) He experienced the unfathomable horror of separation from God, who cannot look on sin (cf. Hab 1:13). This answers Jesus' question, "Why?" Dying for sinners (Mark 10:45; Rom 5:8; 1 Peter 2:24; 3:18), He experienced separation from God. (from Bible Knowledge Commentary/Old Testament Copyright © 1983, 2000 Cook Communications Ministries; Bible Knowledge Commentary/New Testament Copyright © 1983, 2000 Cook Communications Ministries. All rights reserved.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted February 27, 2018 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted February 27, 2018 . . . and, a related video, by yours truly! https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/142688-psalm-22-and-the-new-testament-and-the-gospel-in-a-bug/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobie_ Posted March 3, 2018 Group: Seventh Day Adventist Followers: 6 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,786 Content Per Day: 0.33 Reputation: 717 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/24/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted March 3, 2018 On 2/27/2018 at 4:09 AM, cannotfindavoice said: In Matthew 27:45-46, it says, "Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour. 46And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is, "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" If Jesus is God, why would He say this? First of all, Jesus quoted Psalm 22:1 which begins with, "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?". Jesus quoted this Psalm in order to draw attention to it and the fact that He was fulfilling it there on the cross. Consider verses 11-18 in Psalm 22: Be not far from me, for trouble is near; For there is none to help.12 Many bulls have surrounded me; Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled me. 13 They open wide their mouth at me, As a ravening and a roaring lion. 14 I am poured out like water, And all my bones are out of joint; My heart is like wax; It is melted within me. 15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd, And my tongue cleaves to my jaws; And Thou dost lay me in the dust of death. 16 For dogs have surrounded me; A band of evildoers has encompassed me; They pierced my hands and my feet. 17 I can count all my bones. They look, they stare at me; 18 They divide my garments among them, And for my clothing they cast lots. The term 'dogs' was used by the Jews to refer to Gentiles (cf. Matt. 15:21-28). His heart has melted within Him (v. 14). During the crucifixion process, the blood loss causes the heart to beat harder and harder and become extremely fatigued. Dehydration occurs (v. 15). Verses 16b-18 speak of piercing His hands and feet and dividing his clothing by casting lots. This is exactly what happen as described in Matt. 27:35. Psalm 22 was written about 600 years before Christ was born. At that time, crucifixion had not yet been invented. Actually, the Phoenicians developed it and Rome borrowed the agonizing means of execution from them. So, when Rome ruled over Israel, it became the Roman means of capital punishment imposed upon the Jews whose biblical means of execution was stoning. Nevertheless, Jesus is pointing to the scriptures to substantiate His messianic mission. A further comment 2 Cor. 5:21 says, "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." It is possible that at some moment on the cross, when Jesus became sin on our behalf, that God the Father, in a sense, turned His back upon the Son. It says in Hab. 1:13 that God is too pure to look upon evil. Therefore, it is possible that when Jesus bore our sins in His body on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24), that the Father, spiritually, turned away. At that time, the Son may have cried out. One thing is for sure. We have no capacity to appreciate the utterly horrific experience of having the sins of the world put upon the Lord Jesus as He hung, in excruciating pain, from that cross. The physical pain was immense. The spiritual one must have been even greater. That shows us clearly how much God loves us. Why did Jesus say, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" "Why did Jesus say, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" “And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46). This cry is a fulfillment of Psalm 22:1, one of many parallels between that psalm and the specific events of the crucifixion. It has been difficult to understand in what sense Jesus was “forsaken” by God. It is certain that God approved His work. It is certain that He was innocent. He had done nothing to forfeit the favor of God. As His own Son - holy, harmless, undefiled, and obedient - God still loved Him. In none of these senses could God have forsaken Him. However, Isaiah tells us that “he bore our griefs and carried our sorrows; that he was wounded for our transgressions, and bruised for our iniquities; that the chastisement of our peace was laid upon him; that by his stripes we are healed” (Isaiah 53:4-5). He redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us (Galatians 3:13). He was made a sin-offering, and He died in our place, on our account, that He might bring us near to God. It was this, doubtless, which caused His intense sufferings. It was the manifestation of God’s hatred of sin, in some way which He has not explained, that Jesus experienced in that terrible hour. It was suffering endured by Him that was due to us, and suffering by which, and by which alone, we can be saved from eternal death. In those awful moments, Jesus was expressing His feelings of abandonment as God placed the sins of the world on Him – and because of that had to “turn away” from Jesus. As Jesus was feeling that weight of sin, He was experiencing separation from God for the only time in all of eternity. It was at this time that 2 Corinthians 5:21 occurred, “God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.” Jesus became sin for us, so He felt the loneliness and abandonment that sin always produces, except that in His case, it was not His sin – it was ours. Recommended Resource: Jesus: The Greatest Life of All by Charles Swindoll. God Bless The sins of the world were upon Him, also the sense of His Father's wrath as He suffered the penalty of the law. He was oppressed by the powers of darkness and the face of His Father was hidden from Him as the weight of sin pressed on Him and thus He said: "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unfailing Presence Posted March 3, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 170 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/26/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 3, 2018 On 2/27/2018 at 4:09 AM, cannotfindavoice said: "Why did Jesus say, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" I understand that Jesus died upon that cross bearing my sin , but as far as the thoughts of God , God's most supreme thought that occurred at that moment between God the Father and God the Son , I don't believe any human being can comprehend . I believe that even when we are in heaven & in His presence that is one thing that we will never comprehend . To deep it is for us . Full of God's own tears , suffering unto death, redemption by the passion of God Himself . A thought of love so excelling that God Himself can think no greater . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted March 3, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, Unfailing Presence said: I don't believe any human being can comprehend . Amen. The Creator Who Himself fills the universe , became born a man in this evil world/society, to redeem them/us ! (and that's not even the "suffering" part ! Just lowering HIMSELF to become a man ! ) Then to die a gruesome death (caution: very explicit) : http://essene.com/History&Essenes/Exec.htm CHAPTER NINE THE EXECUTION (Taken from A Book of Evidence © N. L. Kuehl) EXEC - Essene Nazarean Church of Mount Carmel essene.com/History&Essenes/Exec.htm The Pharisees of the first century B.C.E. had found the practice to be utterly abhorrent, and this is reflected in the writings of the Essenes. Within the order of the language, another Qumran document, seems to imply that hanging convicted criminals on a tree while still alive was a fairly common practice, at least during the ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ytLiJC Posted March 4, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 357 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 65 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/21/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 4, 2018 unfortunately Jesus found himself in a situation of "sabbath day" (as He calls it in Matthew 24:20), which means crisis situation - a situation in which the "darkness" can have greater power over a religious worshiper Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1to3 Posted March 4, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,209 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 3,073 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/28/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 4, 2018 Why did Jesus cry out, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me? Because Christ Jesus fulfilled All Biblical prophecy concerning HIM and His last word where: IT IS FINISHED. When Christ Jesus recited those words: he was reciting psalm 22 Psalm 22 A Psalm of David. The Suffering, Praise, and Posterity of the Messiah 22 My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me? Why are You so far from helping Me, And from the words of My groaning? 2 O My God, I cry in the daytime, but You do not hear; And in the night season, and am not silent. 3 But You are holy, Enthroned in the praises of Israel. 4 Our fathers trusted in You; They trusted, and You delivered them. 5 They cried to You, and were delivered; They trusted in You, and were not ashamed. 6 But I am a worm, and no man; A reproach of men, and despised by the people. 7 All those who see Me ridicule Me; They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying, 8 “He trusted[b] in the Lord, let Him rescue Him; Let Him deliver Him, since He delights in Him!” 9 But You are He who took Me out of the womb; You made Me trust while on My mother’s breasts. 10 I was cast upon You from birth. From My mother’s womb You have been My God. 11 Be not far from Me, For trouble is near; For there is none to help. 12 Many bulls have surrounded Me; Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled Me. 13 They gape at Me with their mouths, Like a raging and roaring lion. 14 I am poured out like water, And all My bones are out of joint; My heart is like wax; It has melted within Me. 15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd, And My tongue clings to My jaws; You have brought Me to the dust of death. 16 For dogs have surrounded Me; The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me. They pierced[c] My hands and My feet; 17 I can count all My bones. They look and stare at Me. 18 They divide My garments among them, And for My clothing they cast lots. 19 But You, O Lord, do not be far from Me; O My Strength, hasten to help Me! 20 Deliver Me from the sword, My precious life from the power of the dog. 21 Save Me from the lion’s mouth And from the horns of the wild oxen! You have answered Me. 22 I will declare Your name to My brethren; In the midst of the assembly I will praise You. 23 You who fear the Lord, praise Him! All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him, And fear Him, all you offspring of Israel! 24 For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; Nor has He hidden His face from Him; But when He cried to Him, He heard. 25 My praise shall be of You in the great assembly; I will pay My vows before those who fear Him. 26 The poor shall eat and be satisfied; Those who seek Him will praise the Lord. Let your heart live forever! 27 All the ends of the world Shall remember and turn to the Lord, And all the families of the nations Shall worship before You.[d] 28 For the kingdom is the Lord’s, And He rules over the nations. 29 All the prosperous of the earth Shall eat and worship; All those who go down to the dust Shall bow before Him, Even he who cannot keep himself alive. 30 A posterity shall serve Him. It will be recounted of the Lord to the next generation, 31 They will come and declare His righteousness to a people who will be born, That He has done this. John 19:30 30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking the lost Posted March 4, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 494 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 208 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/15/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted March 4, 2018 21 hours ago, Abdicate said: Actually, the chapter and verse numbers didn't exist and the way they spoke of something was to just quote it. If you wanted them to read the chapter, you quoted the first verse only. All of Psa 22 spoke of Him on the cross including all that they did to Him. He was saying, "Look at all the prophecies you deny Me, look what the scriptures say!" The devil has taught men that the Father forsook Jesus and hence the cry. The Father never left Jesus, nor shall they leave us. Hi Abdicaste I agree with what you have written. I would add thoughts from Romans 8: 31What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?33Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written: “For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”j 37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,k neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. If God turned His back on or looked away from Jesus because of sin then Romans 8 can be of little comfort to us. God's love for us is sure and God's love for the Son was sure and unaffected by the condition that He was in. The perception on our part of that love is a point of separation. The moment we say "if you really loved me this would not be happening to me", we have been separated from the love of God not for lack of that love but our perception of that affirming love is affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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