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The Times of the Gentiles...Luke 21: 20-28


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TIMES OF THE GENTILES....... Luke 21: 20-28

 

In the Gospel of Luke, Jesus referred to something he called “The Times of the Gentiles.” This phrase has puzzled Bible scholars for 2000 years. But if we carefully examine the phrase, we can get a good approximation of what this mysterious time period might mean.

 

The traditional view of many commentators is that it refers to the time that Gentiles (non-Jews) controlled all or part of Jerusalem.  (From AD70 on). Some commentators have post-dated Gentile control all the way back to Babylonian days.  Still others have suggested it is the time that the Dome of Rock has been present on the Temple Mount. The problem with all of these views is that they rely soley on what we as commentators “think” it means rather than relying on what the Bible says it means.

Sense and Reference

An incredibly important, but often overlooked, Bible interpreation method is known as “Sense and Reference.” The method says that every Bible passage has a “sense” or what the phrase literally means when we read it. Many passages also have a “reference,” which is another Bible verse that the passage refers to that adds additional meaning to it. Sometimes the “reference” is just as important to the meaning of the passage as the literal “sense.”

This method of Bible interpretation dates back to several centuries BC. Jesus himself used it often. He would quote a single Old Testament phrase and assume his listeners would know the quote and its context. A famous example is when Jesus quoted the first line of Psalm 22 while hanging on the cross, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me.” The “sense” of what Jesus was saying was a cry of anguish over the Father turning away from the Son while he bore our sin debt and literally became sin for us. The “reference” was all of Psalm 22. Jesus wanted those within listening distance to know that what they were seeing was the literal fulfillment of Psalm 22, from the sneering of the crowds, to his bones being out of joint, his tongue cleaving to the roof of his mouth, the piercing of his hands and feet, and the gambling for his clothes.  Unfortunately most of his listeners missed the prophetic point of Jesus’s statement and thought he was calling on Elijah! If they had only understood Jesus’s true “reference,” how many might have been saved that day?

So we must ask, “is there a ‘sense and reference’ to Jesus’s statement about the ‘Times of the Gentiles?'” In order to answer this, let’s look at the passage in its context:

But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;  because these are days of vengeance (Gk: EKDIKESEOS, meaning “justice or avenging”), so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times (Gk: KAIRON, meaning “appointed times”) of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Luke 21: 20-24 NASB)

The Sense

Jesus’s disciples asked him what would be the sign of his second coming and the end of the age. He responded with a sermon we call the Olivet Discourse. This passage is about what will happen to Jerusalem at the Midpoint (half way point) of Daniel’s 70th Week.

This brings up the first misunderstanding that many commentators have about the passage; that it refers to AD 70 and the Roman destruction of Jerusalem and not to the future 70th Week of Daniel. Because the events pictured in the passage are similar to events in AD 70, these commentators believe it refers to that time. In doing so, they miss an incredibly important verse, “so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.” All of prophecy wasn’t fulfilled in AD 70 so Jesus could not be exclusively talking about that period. The passage must refer to the 70th Week which is yet future. That is when all that is written is fulfilled.

Part of the reason many commentators don’t want to believe this refers to the future is what the passage says about Jerusalem, “they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all nations.” No one wants to imagine another holocaust, yet this is what the passage is picturing. But, regardless of whether we like it or not, we must remain true to God’s Word; it says a second holocaust is coming.

Knowing that the passage does not refer to AD 70 changes our opinion of what the phrase “Times of the Gentiles” means as well. If the entire passage was talking about AD 70, when Jesus said, “Jerusalem will be trampled by the Gentiles until the Times of the Gentiles are fulfilled,” this would imply that these “times” would extend from the trampling in AD 70 until today.  Now that we know that Luke 21: 20-24 is about the future, this theory (that the Times of the Gentiles is from AD 70 till Jesus returns) loses a lot of its validity.

Let’s trace what the passage says. We first see that Jerusalem will be made “desolate.” It’s people will be killed and sent to concentration camps in other nations. The passage then further states that during “those days,” the Gentiles will trample Jerusalem. The passage doesn’t say that Jerusalem has continually been trampled, it says that during “those days” (during this invasion at the midpoint of Daniel’s 70th Week) the Gentiles will trample the city.

The Reference

Now that we know the “sense” of the passage, let’s see if we can find further clues as to the meaning from reference passages. The primary references to these verses are found in Daniel:

Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city . . . to seal up vision and prophecy . . .  (Dan. 9: 24 NASB)

These are days of vengeance (Gk: EKDIKESEOS, meaning “justice or avenging”), so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. (Luke 21: 22 NASB)

This first reference implies the Jesus is explaining Daniel’s prophecy about the 70 Shabua. The second does as well:

The people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined. (Dan. 9: 26 NASB)

But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. (Luke 21: 20 NASB)

You are probably saying “wait a minute, Daniel 9: 26 is talking about AD 70.” Really? Are we making the same mistake commentators previously made about Luke 21: 20-24? The first 69 weeks (Shabua) of this vision END with Jesus’s death. The destruction of the Temple in AD 70 is 40 years outside of Daniel’s 70 weeks, so how can verse 26 be part of the prophecy which is about the 70 weeks? I believe verse 26 is speaking of the destruction yet to come. This is another parallel showing Jesus is explaining the 70 weeks in Luke 21: 20-24.

In the middle of the week (70th Week) he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate. (Dan. 9: 27 NASB)

We have already stated that Luke 21: 20-24 shows what happens at the Midpoint of Daniel’s 70th Week. This confirms the timing.

Until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate. (Dan. 9: 27 NASB)

Until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Luke 21: 24)

The perfect parallelism continues through the end of both passages. So now we know the end point of the Times of the Gentiles, it is the return of Christ and the destruction of the Antichrist.  What is the link between these two things?

They (the saints) will be given into his (the Antichrist’s) hand for a time, times, and half a time. But the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyedforever. (Dan. 7: 25-26 NASB)

This is the linking verse that I think Jesus had in mind. “Times” and “destruction ” both appear in this one passage. So are the “Times of the Gentiles” the same as “time, times, and half a time?” Yes, I believe they are. Is there more proof? Yes, there is:

Jerusalem will be trampled (Gk: PATEO) under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Luke 21: 24 NASB)

It has been given to the nations; and they will tread (Gk: PATEO)under foot the holy city for forty-two months. (Rev. 11:3 NASB)

This is the next reference. We can see that the trampling of Jerusalem is 42 months. We already know that “time, times, and half a time” is 1260 days, 3 1/2 year or 42 months. We have a match. We can now say with fair certainity that the “Times of the Gentiles” is equal to the last half of Daniel’s 70th Week (42 months) and not the time from the Babylonian invasion and not the time since AD 70 as is so frequently taught.

Times

What did Jesus mean by “times” when he used this word? We have already seen that the Greek word translated “times” is KAIRON meaning “appointed times.” In the Hebrew this word is MO’EDIM which also can mean “Feasts of the Lord.” Could Jesus have been talking about the Feasts of the Lord? Since we know each “time” is a year, was Jesus talking about a cycle of all 7 Feasts that take a year to complete? It is very likely.

We also know that the primary fulfillment of the first four Feasts have already taken place. Three more Feasts (Yom Teruah, Yom Kippur, and Tabernacles) still remain to be fulfilled. It is incredibly likely they will be fulfilled during the 70th Week of Daniel. So when Jesus referred to the “Times” of the Gentiles was he also referring to Feasts of the Lord that will be fulfilled when the Gentiles are in control of Jerusalem? He may have been.

                            The “fullness of the Gentiles” is for believers.................... “Times of the Gentiles” is about unbelievers. 

by Nelson Walters..... Gospel in the end times.Com

( so who is Nelson Walters.......here is a clip from his bio......

"Sometimes I believe God chooses the most unlikely person you can imagine to do His work, someone totally un-gifted by nature. Into that person he pours his spiritual gifts so that there is absolutely no question that the work is of God.

This website and my books are an example of that principle, and I am the one totally un-gifted by nature. At the time I began this process, I had never written a book, created a website, or prepared a piece of prose in my life. When God gave me the vision that I needed to assist in awakening the church, I felt like Moses before the burning bush – totally unworthy of the task ahead. Fortunately, He is worthy. He has provided everything I needed, from the revelations of scripture to advisers with the technical skills necessary to present my material. Praise to you Lord, Jesus! ..................... "I was willing to be used."

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You are 100 % correct on your analysis of the above regarding the coming 70th week decreed

I would suggest that you consider the Lord as the One who will confirm the covenant with many [the one third of believing Israel during the tribulation period]

It is the other prince [the antichrist] who will come to desecrate Israel at the middle of the 70th week

Other than that I agree with you 

Edited by Daniel 11:36
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On 2/27/2018 at 3:26 PM, JoeCanada said:

TIMES OF THE GENTILES....... Luke 21: 20-28

 

In the Gospel of Luke, Jesus referred to something he called “The Times of the Gentiles.” This phrase has puzzled Bible scholars for 2000 years. But if we carefully examine the phrase, we can get a good approximation of what this mysterious time period might mean.

 

The traditional view of many commentators is that it refers to the time that Gentiles (non-Jews) controlled all or part of Jerusalem.  (From AD70 on). Some commentators have post-dated Gentile control all the way back to Babylonian days.  Still others have suggested it is the time that the Dome of Rock has been present on the Temple Mount. The problem with all of these views is that they rely soley on what we as commentators “think” it means rather than relying on what the Bible says it means.

Sense and Reference

An incredibly important, but often overlooked, Bible interpreation method is known as “Sense and Reference.” The method says that every Bible passage has a “sense” or what the phrase literally means when we read it. Many passages also have a “reference,” which is another Bible verse that the passage refers to that adds additional meaning to it. Sometimes the “reference” is just as important to the meaning of the passage as the literal “sense.”

This method of Bible interpretation dates back to several centuries BC. Jesus himself used it often. He would quote a single Old Testament phrase and assume his listeners would know the quote and its context. A famous example is when Jesus quoted the first line of Psalm 22 while hanging on the cross, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me.” The “sense” of what Jesus was saying was a cry of anguish over the Father turning away from the Son while he bore our sin debt and literally became sin for us. The “reference” was all of Psalm 22. Jesus wanted those within listening distance to know that what they were seeing was the literal fulfillment of Psalm 22, from the sneering of the crowds, to his bones being out of joint, his tongue cleaving to the roof of his mouth, the piercing of his hands and feet, and the gambling for his clothes.  Unfortunately most of his listeners missed the prophetic point of Jesus’s statement and thought he was calling on Elijah! If they had only understood Jesus’s true “reference,” how many might have been saved that day?

So we must ask, “is there a ‘sense and reference’ to Jesus’s statement about the ‘Times of the Gentiles?'” In order to answer this, let’s look at the passage in its context:

But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;  because these are days of vengeance (Gk: EKDIKESEOS, meaning “justice or avenging”), so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times (Gk: KAIRON, meaning “appointed times”) of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Luke 21: 20-24 NASB)

The Sense

Jesus’s disciples asked him what would be the sign of his second coming and the end of the age. He responded with a sermon we call the Olivet Discourse. This passage is about what will happen to Jerusalem at the Midpoint (half way point) of Daniel’s 70th Week.

This brings up the first misunderstanding that many commentators have about the passage; that it refers to AD 70 and the Roman destruction of Jerusalem and not to the future 70th Week of Daniel. Because the events pictured in the passage are similar to events in AD 70, these commentators believe it refers to that time. In doing so, they miss an incredibly important verse, “so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.” All of prophecy wasn’t fulfilled in AD 70 so Jesus could not be exclusively talking about that period. The passage must refer to the 70th Week which is yet future. That is when all that is written is fulfilled.

Part of the reason many commentators don’t want to believe this refers to the future is what the passage says about Jerusalem, “they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all nations.” No one wants to imagine another holocaust, yet this is what the passage is picturing. But, regardless of whether we like it or not, we must remain true to God’s Word; it says a second holocaust is coming.

Knowing that the passage does not refer to AD 70 changes our opinion of what the phrase “Times of the Gentiles” means as well. If the entire passage was talking about AD 70, when Jesus said, “Jerusalem will be trampled by the Gentiles until the Times of the Gentiles are fulfilled,” this would imply that these “times” would extend from the trampling in AD 70 until today.  Now that we know that Luke 21: 20-24 is about the future, this theory (that the Times of the Gentiles is from AD 70 till Jesus returns) loses a lot of its validity.

Let’s trace what the passage says. We first see that Jerusalem will be made “desolate.” It’s people will be killed and sent to concentration camps in other nations. The passage then further states that during “those days,” the Gentiles will trample Jerusalem. The passage doesn’t say that Jerusalem has continually been trampled, it says that during “those days” (during this invasion at the midpoint of Daniel’s 70th Week) the Gentiles will trample the city.

The Reference

Now that we know the “sense” of the passage, let’s see if we can find further clues as to the meaning from reference passages. The primary references to these verses are found in Daniel:

Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city . . . to seal up vision and prophecy . . .  (Dan. 9: 24 NASB)

These are days of vengeance (Gk: EKDIKESEOS, meaning “justice or avenging”), so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. (Luke 21: 22 NASB)

This first reference implies the Jesus is explaining Daniel’s prophecy about the 70 Shabua. The second does as well:

The people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined. (Dan. 9: 26 NASB)

But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. (Luke 21: 20 NASB)

You are probably saying “wait a minute, Daniel 9: 26 is talking about AD 70.” Really? Are we making the same mistake commentators previously made about Luke 21: 20-24? The first 69 weeks (Shabua) of this vision END with Jesus’s death. The destruction of the Temple in AD 70 is 40 years outside of Daniel’s 70 weeks, so how can verse 26 be part of the prophecy which is about the 70 weeks? I believe verse 26 is speaking of the destruction yet to come. This is another parallel showing Jesus is explaining the 70 weeks in Luke 21: 20-24.

In the middle of the week (70th Week) he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate. (Dan. 9: 27 NASB)

We have already stated that Luke 21: 20-24 shows what happens at the Midpoint of Daniel’s 70th Week. This confirms the timing.

Until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate. (Dan. 9: 27 NASB)

Until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Luke 21: 24)

The perfect parallelism continues through the end of both passages. So now we know the end point of the Times of the Gentiles, it is the return of Christ and the destruction of the Antichrist.  What is the link between these two things?

They (the saints) will be given into his (the Antichrist’s) hand for a time, times, and half a time. But the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyedforever. (Dan. 7: 25-26 NASB)

This is the linking verse that I think Jesus had in mind. “Times” and “destruction ” both appear in this one passage. So are the “Times of the Gentiles” the same as “time, times, and half a time?” Yes, I believe they are. Is there more proof? Yes, there is:

Jerusalem will be trampled (Gk: PATEO) under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Luke 21: 24 NASB)

It has been given to the nations; and they will tread (Gk: PATEO)under foot the holy city for forty-two months. (Rev. 11:3 NASB)

This is the next reference. We can see that the trampling of Jerusalem is 42 months. We already know that “time, times, and half a time” is 1260 days, 3 1/2 year or 42 months. We have a match. We can now say with fair certainity that the “Times of the Gentiles” is equal to the last half of Daniel’s 70th Week (42 months) and not the time from the Babylonian invasion and not the time since AD 70 as is so frequently taught.

Times

What did Jesus mean by “times” when he used this word? We have already seen that the Greek word translated “times” is KAIRON meaning “appointed times.” In the Hebrew this word is MO’EDIM which also can mean “Feasts of the Lord.” Could Jesus have been talking about the Feasts of the Lord? Since we know each “time” is a year, was Jesus talking about a cycle of all 7 Feasts that take a year to complete? It is very likely.

We also know that the primary fulfillment of the first four Feasts have already taken place. Three more Feasts (Yom Teruah, Yom Kippur, and Tabernacles) still remain to be fulfilled. It is incredibly likely they will be fulfilled during the 70th Week of Daniel. So when Jesus referred to the “Times” of the Gentiles was he also referring to Feasts of the Lord that will be fulfilled when the Gentiles are in control of Jerusalem? He may have been.

                            The “fullness of the Gentiles” is for believers.................... “Times of the Gentiles” is about unbelievers. 

by Nelson Walters..... Gospel in the end times.Com

( so who is Nelson Walters.......here is a clip from his bio......

"Sometimes I believe God chooses the most unlikely person you can imagine to do His work, someone totally un-gifted by nature. Into that person he pours his spiritual gifts so that there is absolutely no question that the work is of God.

This website and my books are an example of that principle, and I am the one totally un-gifted by nature. At the time I began this process, I had never written a book, created a website, or prepared a piece of prose in my life. When God gave me the vision that I needed to assist in awakening the church, I felt like Moses before the burning bush – totally unworthy of the task ahead. Fortunately, He is worthy. He has provided everything I needed, from the revelations of scripture to advisers with the technical skills necessary to present my material. Praise to you Lord, Jesus! ..................... "I was willing to be used."

Shalom, JoeCanada.

You are NOT "100% correct." The Times of the Gentiles IS from 70 A.D. forward until today. Let me explain:

You said, 

"Jesus’s disciples asked him what would be the sign of his second coming and the end of the age. He responded with a sermon we call the Olivet Discourse. This passage is about what will happen to Jerusalem at the Midpoint (half way point) of Daniel’s 70th Week.

"This brings up the first misunderstanding that many commentators have about the passage; that it refers to AD 70 and the Roman destruction of Jerusalem and not to the future 70th Week of Daniel. Because the events pictured in the passage are similar to events in AD 70, these commentators believe it refers to that time. In doing so, they miss an incredibly important verse, “so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.” All of prophecy wasn’t fulfilled in AD 70 so Jesus could not be exclusively talking about that period. The passage must refer to the 70th Week which is yet future. That is when all that is written is fulfilled."

First, you are making the ASSUMPTION that this all happens at a FUTURE "Midpoint (half way point) of Daniel's 70th Week," but you have not yet established the PURPOSES of the 70th Week! Furthermore, you are also starting with the ASSUMPTION that the 70th Week is separated (for what purpose?) from the 69 previous Weeks! Why is there this "gap?"

Second, many of the SPECIFIC details of the Olivet Discourse make NO SENSE in today's Jerusalem, while they made PERFECT SENSE in the Jerusalem of the First Century. Consider the following:

Matthew 24:15-25 (KJV)

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then
a. let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17
b. Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18
c. Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And
d. woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But
e. pray ye that your flight be not in the winter,
f. neither (that your flight be) on the sabbath day
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before (hand).

Have you ever watched the new TV series, "SEAL Team" starring David Boreanaz? The technology pictured in this show is NOT far-fetched! They HAVE such innovations as satellite imagery with heat source identification. They HAVE such things as drone technology in existence today. What good would "fleeing into the mountains" do today?

What was so great about "staying on the housetop" when sudden danger was upon them? Modern Jerusalem today is quite big: It has a population of 882,652 with 1,253,900 in its metropolitan area; it covers an area of 125,156 dunams (125.156 km2 or 48.323 sq mi), its metropolitan area being 652,000 dunams (652 km2 or 252 sq mi); and of that population, 64% are Jewish, 35% are Arab, and 1% come from other origins. Modern Jerusalem has skyscrapers and hospitals and a large downtown area. Buildings are spaced apart similar to the way buildings are spaced apart in other major cities of the world. Why would anyone feel safer or BE safer "staying on the housetop?!"

Why would it be worse for pregnant women or women nursing young children?

Why should one pray that his escape not be in the winter?

And, who but a Jew would even CARE if his escape had to be made on the Shabbat ("Sabbath")?

The ancient city of Jerusalem (the Old City), however, has this said about it:

Quote

 

The Old City (Hebrew: הָעִיר הָעַתִּיקָה‬, Ha'Ir Ha'Atiqah, Arabic: البلدة القديمة‎, al-Balda al-Qadimah) is a 0.9 square kilometers (0.35 sq mi) walled area[2] within the modern city of Jerusalem.

Until 1860, when the Jewish neighborhood Mishkenot Sha'ananim was established, this area constituted the entire city of Jerusalem.

The Old City is home to several sites of key religious importance: the Temple Mount and Western Wall for Jews, the Church of the Holy Sepulchre for Christians and the Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa Mosque for Muslims. It was added to the UNESCO World Heritage Site List in 1981.

Traditionally, the Old City has been divided into four uneven quarters, although the current designations were introduced only in the 19th century.[3] Today, the Old City is roughly divided (going counterclockwise from the northeastern corner) into the Muslim Quarter, Christian Quarter, Armenian Quarter and Jewish Quarter. The Old City's monumental defensive walls and city gates were built in the years 1535–1542 by the Turkish sultan Suleiman the Magnificent.[4] The current population of the Old City resides mostly in the Muslim and Christian quarters. As of 2007 the total population was 36,965; the breakdown of religious groups in 2006 was 27,500 Muslims (up from ca. 17,000 in 1967, with over 30,000 by 2013, tendency: growing); 5,681 Christians (ca. 6,000 in 1967), not including the 790 Armenians (down to ca. 500 by 2011, tendency: decreasing); and 3,089 Jews (starting with none in 1967, as they were evicted after the Old City was captured by Jordan following the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, with almost 3,000 plus some 1,500 yeshiva students by 2013, tendency: growing).[5][6][7]

 

This comes from Wikipedia (See Old City (Jerusalem).)

Regarding the reason for staying on the housetop, it can be found in Manners and Customs of Bible Lands by Fred H. Wight (1953, The Moody Bible Institute of Chicago, ISBN: 0-8024-5175-6), page 33:

Quote

 

Used as a way of escape in time of evil. In a day when escape from evil was necessary, the inhabitants of villages in Christ's time could do so by going from roof to roof, because the houses were located so close to each other. Dr. Edersheim describes the situation thus:

From roof to roof there might be regular communication, called by the Rabbis, "the road of the roofs." Thus a person could make his escape, passing from roof to roof, till at the last house he would descend the stairs that led down its outside, without having entered any dwelling. To this "road of the roofs" our Lord no doubt referred in His warning to His followers (Matt. 24:17; Mark 13:15; Luke 17:31), intended to apply to the last siege of Jerusalem, "And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein."[40]
...

[40] Alfred Edersheim, Sketches of Jewish Social Life in the Days of Christ, pp. 93, 94.

 

Indeed, in some walled cities, the houses could be joined to the wall, as was that of the harlot, Rachav (Rahab) in Jericho, providing escape over the wall or through a window in the wall:

Joshua 2:1-21 (KJV)

1 And Joshua the son of Nun sent out of Shittim two men to spy secretly, saying, Go view the land, even Jericho. And they went, and came into an harlot's house, named Rahab, and lodged there. 2 And it was told the king of Jericho, saying, Behold, there came men in hither to night of the children of Israel to search out the country. 3 And the king of Jericho sent unto Rahab, saying, Bring forth the men that are come to thee, which are entered into thine house: for they be come to search out all the country. 4 And the woman took the two men, and hid them, and said thus, There came men unto me, but I wist not whence they were: 5 And it came to pass about the time of shutting of the gate, when it was dark, that the men went out: whither the men went I wot not: pursue after them quickly; for ye shall overtake them. 6 But she had brought them up to the roof of the house, and hid them with the stalks of flax, which she had laid in order upon the roof. 7 And the men pursued after them the way to Jordan unto the fords: and as soon as they which pursued after them were gone out, they shut the gate.

8 And before they were laid down, she came up unto them upon the roof; 9 And she said unto the men, I know that the LORD hath given you the land, and that your terror is fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land faint because of you. 10 For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that were on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed. 11 And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath. 12 Now therefore, I pray you, swear unto me by the LORD, since I have shewed you kindness, that ye will also shew kindness unto my father's house, and give me a true token: 13 And that ye will save alive my father, and my mother, and my brethren, and my sisters, and all that they have, and deliver our lives from death. 14 And the men answered her, Our life for yours, if ye utter not this our business. And it shall be, when the LORD hath given us the land, that we will deal kindly and truly with thee.

15 Then she let them down by a cord through the window: for her house was upon the town wall, and she dwelt upon the wall. 16 And she said unto them, Get you to the mountain, lest the pursuers meet you; and hide yourselves there three days, until the pursuers be returned: and afterward may ye go your way. 17 And the men said unto her, We will be blameless of this thine oath which thou hast made us swear. 18 Behold, when we come into the land, thou shalt bind this line of scarlet thread in the window which thou didst let us down by: and thou shalt bring thy father, and thy mother, and thy brethren, and all thy father's household, home unto thee. 19 And it shall be, thatwhosoever shall go out of the doors of thy house into the street, his blood shall be upon his head, and we will be guiltless: and whosoever shall be with thee in the house, his blood shall be on our head, if any hand be upon him. 20 And if thou utter this our business, then we will be quit of thine oath which thou hast made us to swear. 21 And she said, According unto your words, so be it. And she sent them away, and they departed: and she bound the scarlet line in the window.

So, this is the reason why they were not to come down from the housetops.

The reason for why a person working in a field should not return to pack is likewise simple: The trouble was coming TO Jerusalem! If one was already outside the Old City's walls, he or she should just flee with whatever they had on their backs! They had no time to pack, and if they should return within the walls, they would be trapped and face the trouble coming!

When one is fleeing on foot and running uphill to the mountains of Israel, to have "young-uns" in tow is going to slow down one's progress and allow for pursuers to capture her. So, if she is pregnant or has a child to carry, she is in deep trouble if she has to escape. That's why Yeshua` uttered the cry of grief: ooahee! "Woe!"

Why should one pray that his escape not be in the winter? Today, it makes little sense. With vehicles that have heat, winter is no worse than summertime. However, if this escape was in Yeshua`s times, they would be on foot, and Israel DOES get cold during the winter, especially in the mountains! Snow and ice are no strangers to the mountains of Israel!

Finally, today in a city that is only 64% Jewish, unless He was specifically talking to just the Jewish population (and Yeshua` may have been), to escape on a Shabbat makes little difference. HOWEVER, if they were escaping in the First Century A.D, then the city would have been with a much higher percentage of Jewish people! Even if Yeshua` was speaking to the believers of His time, most if not all of them were Jews!

 

Now, you said, "This brings up the first misunderstanding that many commentators have about the passage; that it refers to AD 70 and the Roman destruction of Jerusalem and not to the future 70th Week of Daniel. Because the events pictured in the passage are similar to events in AD 70, these commentators believe it refers to that time. In doing so, they miss an incredibly important verse, 'so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.' All of prophecy wasn’t fulfilled in AD 70 so Jesus could not be exclusively talking about that period. The passage must refer to the 70th Week which is yet future. That is when all that is written is fulfilled." However, this is based on a BAD READING of a BAD INTERPRETATION of what Yeshua` said!

You had quoted the NASB (the New American Standard Bible):

But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.  Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;  because these are days of vengeance (Gk: EKDIKESEOS, meaning “justice or avenging”), so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times (Gk: KAIRON, meaning “appointed times”) of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Luke 21: 20-24 NASB)

However, one should investigate the Greek, not just a couple of words.

Luke 21:20-24 (KJV)

20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Kata Loukan 21:20-24 (UBS Greek New Testament)

20 Hotan de ideete kukloumeneen hupo stratopedoon Ierousaleem, tote gnoote hoti eeggiken hee ereemoosis autees. 21 Tote hoi en tee Ioudaia feugetoosan eis ta oree, kai hoi en mesoo autees ekchooreitoosan, kai hoi en tais choorais mee eiserchesthoosan eis auteen, 22 hoti heemerai ekdikeeseoos hautai eisin tou pleestheenai panta ta gegrammena. 23 ouai tais en gastri echousais kai tais theelazousais en ekeinais tais germerais estai gar anagkee megalee epi tees gees kai orgee too laoo toutoo,  24 kai pesountai stomati machairees kai aichmalootistheesontai eis ta ethnee panta, kai Ierousaleem estai patoumenee chupo ethnoon, achri hou pleeroothoosin (kai esontai) kairoi ethnoon.

20 Hotan = 20 When
de = but
ideete = ye-see
kukloumeneen = being-circled/surrounded
hupo = under
stratopedoon = an-encamped-army
Ierousaleem, = Yerushalayim/Jerusalem,
tote = then
gnoote = (ye)-know
hoti = that
eeggiken = is-near
hee = the
ereemoosis = desolation
autees. = of-it.
21 Tote = 21 Then
hoi = those
en = in
tee = the
Ioudaia = land-of-Yhudah/Judaea
feugetoosan = escape
eis = into
ta = the
oree, = mountains,
kai = and/also
hoi = those
en = in
mesoo = middle
autees = of-it
ekchooreitoosan, = let-them-depart-out,
kai = and/also
hoi = those
en = in
tais = the
choorais = country/fields
mee = not
eiserchesthoosan = let-them-come-back/return
eis = into
auteen, = it,
22 hoti = that
heemerai = days
ekdikeeseoos = of-vengeance
hautai = these
eisin = are
tou = the-ones
pleestheenai = are-to-be-accomplished/fulfilled
panta = all-things
ta = those
gegrammena. = having-been-written.

23 ouai = 23 woe
tais = to-those
en = in
gastri = belly
echousais = having/holding-[a-child]
kai = and/also
tais to-those
theelazousais = nursing
en = in
ekeinais = those
tais = the
heemerais = days
estai = there-will-be
gar = for
anagkee = distress
megalee = great/terrible
epi = upon/above
tees = the
gees = ground
kai = and/also
orgee = anger/wrath
too = to-the
laoo = people
toutoo, = this, 
24 kai = 24 and/also
pesountai = they-will-fall
stomati = by-[the]-mouth
machairees = of-[the]-sword
kai = and/also
aichmalootistheesontai = they-will-be-led-captive
eis = into
ta = the
ethnee = {Gentile]-nations
panta, = all, 
kai = and/also
Ierousaleem = Yerushalayim/Jerusalem
estai = will-be
patoumenee = tromped-upon
hupo = under
ethnoon, = [Gentile]-nations
achri = until
hou = that
pleeroothoosin = fulfilled
(kai = (and/also
esontai) = be)
kairoi = times
ethnoon. = of-[Gentile]-nations.

The point is this: These are not "all things written (PERIOD)"; these are "all things HAVING BEEN WRITTEN!!" It's a QUALIFIED "all!" It's not enough to check the Greek words! One must also check the syntax and the tenses and the context of those Greek words!

Edited by Retrobyter
to correct some grammar
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On and on you go with your tenuous details Roy, but you have missed the truth about what the Lord said

He said that Israel will experience the difficulties created by the antichrist during the complete 70th week

You need to dump your idea of a 2000 year spread

The Lord's entire passage in Matthew 24 is about the 70th week that is still pending

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On 3/11/2018 at 9:50 AM, Daniel 11:36 said:

On and on you go with your tenuous details Roy, but you have missed the truth about what the Lord said

He said that Israel will experience the difficulties created by the antichrist during the complete 70th week

You need to dump your idea of a 2000 year spread

The Lord's entire passage in Matthew 24 is about the 70th week that is still pending

Shalom, Daniel 11:36.

"Tenuous details"? They are NOT "weak!" And, they are CERTAINLY not "insubstantial!" I haven't missed the truth about what the Lord said; He was quite clear! He was talking TO His own disciples at that time before His death, using in translation of the Greek language, the pronouns "humeis," "humoon," "humin," and "humas," "you" plural. When He was using these words, He was speaking DIRECTLY to the ones with Him on Har Ha-Zeitiym that day! He was warning THEM, not some people 2,000 years later!

Furthermore, half of the 70th Week is already over, being fulfilled in 27-30 A.D., making Matthew 24 and 25, Mark 13, and Luke 21 QUITE incapable of speaking of the entire "70th Week that is still pending."

I'll put it to you: WHY is there a gap at all between the 69th Week and the 70th Week? NO ONE who believes in such a gap has adequately answered that question.

I, on the other hand, can give you a simple and BIBLICAL reason for a gap between the first half of the 70th Week and the second half of that same 70th Week: YESHUA` HIMSELF put it there when He left the Jews of Jerusalem "DESOLATE," as per Daniel 9:27, in Matthew 23:37-39, specifically verse 38.

When Yeshua` started His "ministry," He offered the Kingdom to His generation:

Mark 1:14-15 (KJV)

14 Now after that John (the Messiah's herald) was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching (heralding) the gospel of (the good news about) the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand (within your grasp): repent ye, and believe the gospel (good news).

Matthew 4:12-17, 23-25 (KJV)

12 Now when Jesus had heard that John (His herald) was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee; 13 And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum (Kfer-Nachuwm), which is upon the sea coast (the shore of Lake Kinneret), in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim: 14 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;
16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up. (Isa. 9:1-7)

17 From that time Jesus began to preach (herald), and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand (within your grasp).

...

23And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching (heralding) the gospel of (the good new about) the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people. (God's authentication and endorsement)

24And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them. 25And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and fromJudaea, and from beyond Jordan.

Luke 8:1-3 (KJV)

1 And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching (heralding) and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him, 2 And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, 3 And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.

Luke 9:1-6 (KJV)

1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. 2 And he sent them to preach (herald) the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick. 3 And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece. 4 And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart. 5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them. 6 And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel (heralding the good news), and healing every where.

Luke 10:1-20 (KJV)

1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come. 2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest. 3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves. 4 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way. 5 And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house. 6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again. 7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house. 8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you: 9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you. 10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say, 11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you. 12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.

13 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. 14 But it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment, than for you. 15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.

16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

(time passed)

17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

It's not a permanent condition, but when Yeshua` left this earth, He "took His offer of the Kingdom WITH Him!" He rescinded the offer until a later date when their decendants would WELCOME (Baruwkh) Him back and accept His offer of the Kingdom.

Matthew 21:23-46 (KJV)

23 And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority? 24 And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things. 25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him? 26 But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet. 27 And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.

28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard. 29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. 30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not. 31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you. 32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: 34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. 35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. 36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. 37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. 38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. 39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. 40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? 41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? (Psalm 118:22)

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. 46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

Acts 1:6-12 (KJV)

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven (the sky) as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven (the sky)? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven (into the sky), shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven (go into the sky).

12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

This is a summary of all four "Gospels." Yeshua` was given to them as the King of the Jews, and He offered them the Kingdom, visiting every village and city in Israel that He could and sending out the Twelve and then the Seventy to all the cities and villages along His path, but the LEADERS of the Jews, the elders of the tribe of Y'hudah, and the priests, the cohaniym, REJECTED His offer. So, Yeshua`, in turn and for their abominations in rejecting Him, rejected THEM in Matthew 23:37-39 and pronounced them "DESOLATE," and told them that they would NO LONGER SEE HIM UNTIL they could WELCOME HIM BACK AS GOD'S MESSIAH (ANOINTED) TO BE KING!

This isn't rocket science, but it does take someone to see the bigger picture! All of this happened BEFORE the discourse on Har Ha-Zeitiym (the Mount of Olives) in Matthew 24 and 25, Mark 13, and Luke 21. The Olivet Discourse is the RESULT of His rejection! Notice the most important point in Yeshua`s discourse:

Matthew 24:9-14 (KJV)

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of (good news about) the kingdom shall be preached (heralded) in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

However, the whole of the Olivet Discourse has NOT yet been fulfilled. The sun, moon, and stars incident, for instance, has not yet come to pass. That stretches out verses 9 through 14 to cover the WHOLE of the almost 2,000 years! WAKE UP!

Edited by Retrobyter
"ancestors?"
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"Tenuous details"? They are NOT "weak!" And, they are CERTAINLY not "insubstantial!" I haven't missed the truth about what the Lord said; He was quite clear! He was talking TO His own disciples at that time before His death, using in translation of the Greek language, the pronouns "humeis," "humoon," "humin," and "humas," "you" plural. When He was using these words, He was speaking DIRECTLY to the ones with Him on Har Ha-Zeitiym that day! He was warning THEM, not some people 2,000 years later!

 

The Lord is speaking to Israelites in Matthew 24 .... period

The Gentiles were the next part the last 2000 years of which will not close until He is ready

His presence ended at the end of the 69 week .... His discussion in Matthew 24 is essentially about Israel in tribulation during the 70th week that is coming

You need a better story

He speaks of Israel in the coming tribulation period during the 70th week decreed

No one knows when this 7 year period will begin

And stop with all of your definitions, many of which have no connection to the Lord's word

You have concocted much nonsense with your diatribes 

Edited by Daniel 11:36
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1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

I, on the other hand, can give you a simple and BIBLICAL reason for a gap between the first half of the 70th Week and the second half of that same 70th Week: YESHUA` HIMSELF put it there when He left the Jews of Jerusalem "DESOLATE," as per Daniel 9:27, in Matthew 23:37-39, specifically verse 38.

I've come to realize the same thing, or something similar.

The prophetic clock of the 70th week stopped ticking with the rejection of the true Messiah and His death on the cross.

The prophetic clock of the 70th week starts ticking again with the acceptance of the false messiah.   He they will receive when he stands in the holy place and declares his deity.

The abomination of desolation starts the prophetic clock ticking again to finish the 70th week - 1335 days from the AoD until the return of Jesus.

At least that 's where my observations have led me to at this point.

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Consider that the 70th week is all still future

It is the Messiah Jesus Christ who will confirm the covenant that He has with a believing remnant of Israel

First the 144000 and then the balance

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On 2/28/2018 at 4:26 AM, JoeCanada said:

TIMES OF THE GENTILES....... Luke 21: 20-28

The Sense

Jesus’s disciples asked him what would be the sign of his second coming and the end of the age. He responded with a sermon we call the Olivet Discourse. This passage is about what will happen to Jerusalem at the Midpoint (half way point) of Daniel’s 70th Week.

This brings up the first misunderstanding that many commentators have about the passage; that it refers to AD 70 and the Roman destruction of Jerusalem and not to the future 70th Week of Daniel. Because the events pictured in the passage are similar to events in AD 70, these commentators believe it refers to that time. In doing so, they miss an incredibly important verse, “so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.” All of prophecy wasn’t fulfilled in AD 70 so Jesus could not be exclusively talking about that period. The passage must refer to the 70th Week which is yet future. That is when all that is written is fulfilled.

Part of the reason many commentators don’t want to believe this refers to the future is what the passage says about Jerusalem, “they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all nations.” No one wants to imagine another holocaust, yet this is what the passage is picturing. But, regardless of whether we like it or not, we must remain true to God’s Word; it says a second holocaust is coming.

Knowing that the passage does not refer to AD 70 changes our opinion of what the phrase “Times of the Gentiles” means as well. If the entire passage was talking about AD 70, when Jesus said, “Jerusalem will be trampled by the Gentiles until the Times of the Gentiles are fulfilled,” this would imply that these “times” would extend from the trampling in AD 70 until today.  Now that we know that Luke 21: 20-24 is about the future, this theory (that the Times of the Gentiles is from AD 70 till Jesus returns) loses a lot of its validity.

 

Luke 21:7 clearly says Jesus' disciples asked him when these things will be and what are the signs they are about to take place. Contrary to your assertion, they did not ask him about his second coming and end of the age. "These things" refer back to verse 6 where Jesus predicts that not one stone of the temple will be left on another. It points to the forthcoming destruction of Jerusalem. That is the natural reading and it is probably why interpreters have traditionally and rightly read it that way.

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On 2/27/2018 at 12:26 PM, JoeCanada said:

TIMES OF THE GENTILES....... Luke 21: 20-28

 

In the Gospel of Luke, Jesus referred to something he called “The Times of the Gentiles.” This phrase has puzzled Bible scholars for 2000 years. But if we carefully examine the phrase, we can get a good approximation of what this mysterious time period might mean.

 

The traditional view of many commentators is that it refers to the time that Gentiles (non-Jews) controlled all or part of Jerusalem.  (From AD70 on). Some commentators have post-dated Gentile control all the way back to Babylonian days.  Still others have suggested it is the time that the Dome of Rock has been present on the Temple Mount. The problem with all of these views is that they rely soley on what we as commentators “think” it means rather than relying on what the Bible says it means.

Sense and Reference

An incredibly important, but often overlooked, Bible interpreation method is known as “Sense and Reference.” The method says that every Bible passage has a “sense” or what the phrase literally means when we read it. Many passages also have a “reference,” which is another Bible verse that the passage refers to that adds additional meaning to it. Sometimes the “reference” is just as important to the meaning of the passage as the literal “sense.”

This method of Bible interpretation dates back to several centuries BC. Jesus himself used it often. He would quote a single Old Testament phrase and assume his listeners would know the quote and its context. A famous example is when Jesus quoted the first line of Psalm 22 while hanging on the cross, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me.” The “sense” of what Jesus was saying was a cry of anguish over the Father turning away from the Son while he bore our sin debt and literally became sin for us. The “reference” was all of Psalm 22. Jesus wanted those within listening distance to know that what they were seeing was the literal fulfillment of Psalm 22, from the sneering of the crowds, to his bones being out of joint, his tongue cleaving to the roof of his mouth, the piercing of his hands and feet, and the gambling for his clothes.  Unfortunately most of his listeners missed the prophetic point of Jesus’s statement and thought he was calling on Elijah! If they had only understood Jesus’s true “reference,” how many might have been saved that day?

So we must ask, “is there a ‘sense and reference’ to Jesus’s statement about the ‘Times of the Gentiles?'” In order to answer this, let’s look at the passage in its context:

But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;  because these are days of vengeance (Gk: EKDIKESEOS, meaning “justice or avenging”), so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times (Gk: KAIRON, meaning “appointed times”) of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Luke 21: 20-24 NASB)

The Sense

Jesus’s disciples asked him what would be the sign of his second coming and the end of the age. He responded with a sermon we call the Olivet Discourse. This passage is about what will happen to Jerusalem at the Midpoint (half way point) of Daniel’s 70th Week.

This brings up the first misunderstanding that many commentators have about the passage; that it refers to AD 70 and the Roman destruction of Jerusalem and not to the future 70th Week of Daniel. Because the events pictured in the passage are similar to events in AD 70, these commentators believe it refers to that time. In doing so, they miss an incredibly important verse, “so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.” All of prophecy wasn’t fulfilled in AD 70 so Jesus could not be exclusively talking about that period. The passage must refer to the 70th Week which is yet future. That is when all that is written is fulfilled.

Part of the reason many commentators don’t want to believe this refers to the future is what the passage says about Jerusalem, “they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all nations.” No one wants to imagine another holocaust, yet this is what the passage is picturing. But, regardless of whether we like it or not, we must remain true to God’s Word; it says a second holocaust is coming.

Knowing that the passage does not refer to AD 70 changes our opinion of what the phrase “Times of the Gentiles” means as well. If the entire passage was talking about AD 70, when Jesus said, “Jerusalem will be trampled by the Gentiles until the Times of the Gentiles are fulfilled,” this would imply that these “times” would extend from the trampling in AD 70 until today.  Now that we know that Luke 21: 20-24 is about the future, this theory (that the Times of the Gentiles is from AD 70 till Jesus returns) loses a lot of its validity.

Let’s trace what the passage says. We first see that Jerusalem will be made “desolate.” It’s people will be killed and sent to concentration camps in other nations. The passage then further states that during “those days,” the Gentiles will trample Jerusalem. The passage doesn’t say that Jerusalem has continually been trampled, it says that during “those days” (during this invasion at the midpoint of Daniel’s 70th Week) the Gentiles will trample the city.

The Reference

Now that we know the “sense” of the passage, let’s see if we can find further clues as to the meaning from reference passages. The primary references to these verses are found in Daniel:

Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city . . . to seal up vision and prophecy . . .  (Dan. 9: 24 NASB)

These are days of vengeance (Gk: EKDIKESEOS, meaning “justice or avenging”), so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. (Luke 21: 22 NASB)

This first reference implies the Jesus is explaining Daniel’s prophecy about the 70 Shabua. The second does as well:

The people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined. (Dan. 9: 26 NASB)

But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. (Luke 21: 20 NASB)

You are probably saying “wait a minute, Daniel 9: 26 is talking about AD 70.” Really? Are we making the same mistake commentators previously made about Luke 21: 20-24? The first 69 weeks (Shabua) of this vision END with Jesus’s death. The destruction of the Temple in AD 70 is 40 years outside of Daniel’s 70 weeks, so how can verse 26 be part of the prophecy which is about the 70 weeks? I believe verse 26 is speaking of the destruction yet to come. This is another parallel showing Jesus is explaining the 70 weeks in Luke 21: 20-24.

In the middle of the week (70th Week) he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate. (Dan. 9: 27 NASB)

We have already stated that Luke 21: 20-24 shows what happens at the Midpoint of Daniel’s 70th Week. This confirms the timing.

Until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate. (Dan. 9: 27 NASB)

Until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Luke 21: 24)

The perfect parallelism continues through the end of both passages. So now we know the end point of the Times of the Gentiles, it is the return of Christ and the destruction of the Antichrist.  What is the link between these two things?

They (the saints) will be given into his (the Antichrist’s) hand for a time, times, and half a time. But the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyedforever. (Dan. 7: 25-26 NASB)

This is the linking verse that I think Jesus had in mind. “Times” and “destruction ” both appear in this one passage. So are the “Times of the Gentiles” the same as “time, times, and half a time?” Yes, I believe they are. Is there more proof? Yes, there is:

Jerusalem will be trampled (Gk: PATEO) under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Luke 21: 24 NASB)

It has been given to the nations; and they will tread (Gk: PATEO)under foot the holy city for forty-two months. (Rev. 11:3 NASB)

This is the next reference. We can see that the trampling of Jerusalem is 42 months. We already know that “time, times, and half a time” is 1260 days, 3 1/2 year or 42 months. We have a match. We can now say with fair certainity that the “Times of the Gentiles” is equal to the last half of Daniel’s 70th Week (42 months) and not the time from the Babylonian invasion and not the time since AD 70 as is so frequently taught.

Times

What did Jesus mean by “times” when he used this word? We have already seen that the Greek word translated “times” is KAIRON meaning “appointed times.” In the Hebrew this word is MO’EDIM which also can mean “Feasts of the Lord.” Could Jesus have been talking about the Feasts of the Lord? Since we know each “time” is a year, was Jesus talking about a cycle of all 7 Feasts that take a year to complete? It is very likely.

We also know that the primary fulfillment of the first four Feasts have already taken place. Three more Feasts (Yom Teruah, Yom Kippur, and Tabernacles) still remain to be fulfilled. It is incredibly likely they will be fulfilled during the 70th Week of Daniel. So when Jesus referred to the “Times” of the Gentiles was he also referring to Feasts of the Lord that will be fulfilled when the Gentiles are in control of Jerusalem? He may have been.

                            The “fullness of the Gentiles” is for believers.................... “Times of the Gentiles” is about unbelievers. 

by Nelson Walters..... Gospel in the end times.Com

( so who is Nelson Walters.......here is a clip from his bio......

"Sometimes I believe God chooses the most unlikely person you can imagine to do His work, someone totally un-gifted by nature. Into that person he pours his spiritual gifts so that there is absolutely no question that the work is of God.

This website and my books are an example of that principle, and I am the one totally un-gifted by nature. At the time I began this process, I had never written a book, created a website, or prepared a piece of prose in my life. When God gave me the vision that I needed to assist in awakening the church, I felt like Moses before the burning bush – totally unworthy of the task ahead. Fortunately, He is worthy. He has provided everything I needed, from the revelations of scripture to advisers with the technical skills necessary to present my material. Praise to you Lord, Jesus! ..................... "I was willing to be used."

:( ... That is sooooo wordy! If this is any example of how people think, no wonder the simple truth has evaded men for centuries.

The times of the nations...simply come after those who came "first" - Israel My chosen. "But many that are first shall be last, and the last shall be first."

Which time came, when Jesus said, "It is finished."

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