If someone doesn't know about Christ, and has never heard of Christ, then where do they go when they die?

[simplejeff]

11 minutes ago, starsong4 said:

This brings up an example: Indigenous people who according to history have had the deepest connection with the Earth and nature, who by their teachings had a deep respect for our Earth and life itself..as far as I know they do not follow Christ. They were taught about Jesus in the most brutal and evil ways, which I've been told was not the work of Jesus but how could they be expected to go from their lives which were of deep connection to nature and themselves to following someone who they were taught about in brutal ways. Their lives became a version of hell because of invasion of their way of life. It makes absolutely no sense for them to go from a way of life that seems to have worked in deep relationship with nature to a way of life that in their experience caused unimaginable pain. 

See Foxes Book of Martyrs in worthychristianlibrary.com.  (yes, it is often brutal, and exposes the wicked evil of 'christendom' that had nothing to do with Jesus, God, Scripture, or True Faith Christianity)  (it is also a very long read)

Worthy Christian Library » Foxe’s Book of Martyrs by John Foxe

Foxe’s Book of Martyrs by John Foxe

Table of Contents

Chapter 1 – History of Christian Martyrs etc etc etc ........

http://www.worthychristianlibrary.com/foxes-book-of-martyrs-by-john-foxe/

[Eternal Call]

3 minutes ago, starsong4 said:

Wow, how interesting that you stated this. I actually first posted this question in another Christian message board with an example, but people were so focused on judging the people I used in the example that no real answers came, hence me asking it here without the example. I will post the example below in quotes (this is the exact full question I posted in the other forum. So I actually am concerned about others. I am also questioning the teachings as well. I am trying to understand. My inquiry is genuine, not for selfish reasons, not to avoid acceptance, but to understand..because I struggle to accept something that has seemed to be so unfair. I want the truth whether I like it or not but either way would like to have understanding of it. I can accept something I don't particularly like as long as I have some understanding of it. After all, how can someone understand if they cannot question? Please see below.

1

 

I believe that you are genuine. I have always been that kind too very sceptical with a lot of questions. So I understand where you are coming from. It is true that to know and learn more about the truth, we have to ask the right questions and this is a good question even though sometimes it is asked with the wrong motives.

I used to ask it more to fight against the gospel rationally. But I came a long way since then and been humbled by God. I always try to stay teachable because I believe pride and ego are the biggest sins and the craftiest deceptions of the evil one.

So again to answer the question, I am convinced that Jesus Christ will judge with perfect righteousness. He is HOLY HOLY HOLY the Bible says. The thing is the people who never heard about the gospel have a conscience and they know deep down what is wrong and right. I am not talking about mentally ill people which is another subject. I am talking about healthy people who genuinely never heard about Jesus Christ or circumstances did not allow them to hear the true gospel. 

However, who among them can say that they never went against their conscience to obey evil inclinations. You see it is always very tricky when we dwell on how God will judge, I used to do it a lot before but now by humbling myself and listening to the Holy Spirit after I got born again, the Lord told me "it is not of your business". He reminded me of when Peter asked about how John will die:

John 21:18-22

¹⁸ Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdest thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.

¹⁹ This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.

²⁰ Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?

²¹ Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?

²² Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

 

I never really dwell on these questions because I know that God will provide a perfect judgment, He is PERFECTLY FAIR. No one will go to hell because they don't deserve it.

God bless you

[starsong4]

Thank you! I figured it is something that is beyond our understanding & not necessarily our business, and am learning to trust God's judgement..trust can be a tricky thing.

Also, thanks for the reference to the book above..I will take a look!

[Your closest friendnt]

8 hours ago, starsong4 said:

Thank you for the responses. I am understanding that this may be debatable amongst Christians. If the truth is that people who do not know about Jesus, who have literally never heard of the gospel at all, end up in hell, then why would God create them in the first place to be starved of that information only to be sent to hell for something they cannot help? If it is truth, ok, but please explain if possible. The only logical explanation to me is that these people are not created from God in the first place or God has a reason for it that we can't understand has humans.

If you can make your post a litle bit more clear I would apreciate it a lot, I would like to ask you a question 

[Sister]

6 hours ago, starsong4 said:

If someone doesn't know about Christ, and has never heard of Christ, then where do they go when they die?

starsong4

We had a thread about this not long ago but it got pinned.

I will give you a quick crash course.

Hell is the grave.  The physical grave holds our dead bones, but beyond that is a place where souls go down and are arranged in their order.  Every man is appointed to die once, and after this, his spirit must be preserved for either judgment or eternal life.  Before Christ died on the cross, every soul that entered hell could not escape death or that place, for the prison doors were locked.  There are wicked angels who are the keepers of these places, and they welcome every single soul that enters and make their claim whether that one belongs to them or not.

When Christ died on the cross, he entered the lowest parts of hell and opened the doors of hell.  The souls he let out were taken and placed in another chamber called paradise where they await.  The souls not taken to paradise remain in hell, but hell is not just one big room, but full of different chambers.  Each chamber varies from another, and has an evil angel appointed over it.  The more wicked the soul, the more torture he receives day and night.  Don't forget they are not flesh bodies, but the spirits of men.  Those who are less wicked go into another chamber and so on.  There is also a chamber for the undecided ones, which is no where as bad.  Either way, it is not a nice place and full of darkness.

Once man dies, he has no more anything to do with what goes on above the earth.  He cannot communicate to those alive, nor can he switch the chamber that he has been put in.

All those souls in the separate chambers, must remain until they are called out. 

The ones who have been placed in paradise consist of different groups. 

(a)  Those who entered death before Christ died.

(b)  Those who entered death after Christ died.

With both groups their souls are placed in paradise.  The group (a), cannot be called out to the resurrection of the saints at the Coming, but will be revived in the flesh to have the spirit of life breathed back into them.  They will live again, and be taught Christ but will die again.  They will be brought into the kingdom on earth during the millennium, and all will see them.  They will take part in the 2nd resurrection and be given eternal life.

Group (b) will resurrected and meet the Lord in the air at his Coming.  Their bodies will be changed, and perfected like the angels, and they can never die again.  They have received salvation, and will receive it first.

If one is not placed in paradise after his death, but a different chamber, he must await there until the Great White Throne Judgement, where all will be judged according to their deeds.  Everything he has done will be shown openly before a judge and jury and weighed out.  If the scales tip more to the right, he will be spared.

 

I thought I knew everything once, and that when we die we know nothing.  I preached this from the housetops, that there is nothing happening beyond the grave, just a big sleep because the scriptures given concerning this gave me this impression.

The Lord corrected me recently and showed me I was wrong.  What's written in the canon is only given in part.  There are snippets of info, but not depth.

I started reading the Book of Enoch first, and he explained about all these different chambers called treasure houses.  I started reading many more apocrypha's and they are all along the same lines.  I have been listening to peoples testimonies who have have visions and experiences on what goes on beyond the grave, and their stories are all along the same of what they saw.  I used to not believe these testimonies, and think they were of the devil, but now my eyes have been opened a little more.  People are just not listening, so some scare tactics is necessary now, for the Lord wants none of us to go into these bad chambers, and these people who have been given visions, and sharing their stories, is to wake up the stubborn, that this place of hell is real, and not some big party where you can do all the sin that you like.  The devil and his angels have much pleasure in torturing those whom they have deceived.  They can't wait in fact.

Most have closed their minds to these books with so much information, that they will never find out until it's too late.  Even Christians who all think they are going to paradise, will be in for a rude shock.  Hypocrite and Luke warm christians go to these other chambers if not repented on, and their punishment is very severe. It applies to me too if I ever go back to the weak things that once ruled my flesh. 

I could go deeper, but I will just end with this.  We all have an angel appointed over us since birth, and that angel's job is to guide us to the Lord. He writes down everything we have done throughout our whole lives and keeps a record of it in a book. Also when we are born, Satan sends an unclean spirit to do everything in his power to prevent us in knowing the Lord. Every time he convinces us to do evil, it is also written in the book.   Both angels are pulling us to each side, and when we die, the Spirit of the Lord will ask each angel who will claim this soul.  The book will be read out and decided where that soul will be placed until it's time to be called up.

I thank the Lord however, that I never came to him because I believed in or was scared of hell.  I believed because I liked his precepts, and with time could see the glory of his ways that they were righteous, ....and I love his laws.  I especially love that he is full of mercy and gives us time to change whilst we are still living, and wipes that old slate clean, so that a new fresh opportunity can be given to have some good fruits produced with good things replacing the bad ones written in our book.  Praise the Lord God Almighty that in these last days, if we keep seeking, he will give us some more truth, and iron out the creases.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

And I thank the Lord that I came to Him out of my own free will wanting to love Him and serve Him. Not because I was scared of going to Hell if I didn't.

[JohnR7]

20 hours ago, starsong4 said:

If someone doesn't know about Christ, and has never heard of Christ, then where do they go when they die?

Everyone has heard about Christ. Even the Mormons talk about how God sent missionaries to the native american Indians. Of course in this day and age it is a lot easier. With in 24 to 48 hours you can go just about anywhere in the world.  They talk about missionary Jim Elliot and how he heard there was a people that had not heard the gospel and he went there to witness to them.  Of course there is an age of accountability. If someone is aborted then they go to Heaven if they die before the age where God holds them accountable. I believe that is the age of 12, some groups believe it is 8.  

[Your closest friendnt]

10 hours ago, Sister said:

starsong4

We had a thread about this not long ago but it got pinned.

I will give you a quick crash course.

Hell is the grave.  The physical grave holds our dead bones, but beyond that is a place where souls go down and are arranged in their order.  Every man is appointed to die once, and after this, his spirit must be preserved for either judgment or eternal life.  Before Christ died on the cross, every soul that entered hell could not escape death or that place, for the prison doors were locked.  There are wicked angels who are the keepers of these places, and they welcome every single soul that enters and make their claim whether that one belongs to them or not.

When Christ died on the cross, he entered the lowest parts of hell and opened the doors of hell.  The souls he let out were taken and placed in another chamber called paradise where they await.  The souls not taken to paradise remain in hell, but hell is not just one big room, but full of different chambers.  Each chamber varies from another, and has an evil angel appointed over it.  The more wicked the soul, the more torture he receives day and night.  Don't forget they are not flesh bodies, but the spirits of men.  Those who are less wicked go into another chamber and so on.  There is also a chamber for the undecided ones, which is no where as bad.  Either way, it is not a nice place and full of darkness.

Once man dies, he has no more anything to do with what goes on above the earth.  He cannot communicate to those alive, nor can he switch the chamber that he has been put in.

All those souls in the separate chambers, must remain until they are called out. 

The ones who have been placed in paradise consist of different groups. 

(a)  Those who entered death before Christ died.

(b)  Those who entered death after Christ died.

With both groups their souls are placed in paradise.  The group (a), cannot be called out to the resurrection of the saints at the Coming, but will be revived in the flesh to have the spirit of life breathed back into them.  They will live again, and be taught Christ but will die again.  They will be brought into the kingdom on earth during the millennium, and all will see them.  They will take part in the 2nd resurrection and be given eternal life.

Group (b) will resurrected and meet the Lord in the air at his Coming.  Their bodies will be changed, and perfected like the angels, and they can never die again.  They have received salvation, and will receive it first.

If one is not placed in paradise after his death, but a different chamber, he must await there until the Great White Throne Judgement, where all will be judged according to their deeds.  Everything he has done will be shown openly before a judge and jury and weighed out.  If the scales tip more to the right, he will be spared.

 

I thought I knew everything once, and that when we die we know nothing.  I preached this from the housetops, that there is nothing happening beyond the grave, just a big sleep because the scriptures given concerning this gave me this impression.

The Lord corrected me recently and showed me I was wrong.  What's written in the canon is only given in part.  There are snippets of info, but not depth.

I started reading the Book of Enoch first, and he explained about all these different chambers called treasure houses.  I started reading many more apocrypha's and they are all along the same lines.  I have been listening to peoples testimonies who have have visions and experiences on what goes on beyond the grave, and their stories are all along the same of what they saw.  I used to not believe these testimonies, and think they were of the devil, but now my eyes have been opened a little more.  People are just not listening, so some scare tactics is necessary now, for the Lord wants none of us to go into these bad chambers, and these people who have been given visions, and sharing their stories, is to wake up the stubborn, that this place of hell is real, and not some big party where you can do all the sin that you like.  The devil and his angels have much pleasure in torturing those whom they have deceived.  They can't wait in fact.

Most have closed their minds to these books with so much information, that they will never find out until it's too late.  Even Christians who all think they are going to paradise, will be in for a rude shock.  Hypocrite and Luke warm christians go to these other chambers if not repented on, and their punishment is very severe. It applies to me too if I ever go back to the weak things that once ruled my flesh. 

I could go deeper, but I will just end with this.  We all have an angel appointed over us since birth, and that angel's job is to guide us to the Lord. He writes down everything we have done throughout our whole lives and keeps a record of it in a book. Also when we are born, Satan sends an unclean spirit to do everything in his power to prevent us in knowing the Lord. Every time he convinces us to do evil, it is also written in the book.   Both angels are pulling us to each side, and when we die, the Spirit of the Lord will ask each angel who will claim this soul.  The book will be read out and decided where that soul will be placed until it's time to be called up.

I thank the Lord however, that I never came to him because I believed in or was scared of hell.  I believed because I liked his precepts, and with time could see the glory of his ways that they were righteous, ....and I love his laws.  I especially love that he is full of mercy and gives us time to change whilst we are still living, and wipes that old slate clean, so that a new fresh opportunity can be given to have some good fruits produced with good things replacing the bad ones written in our book.  Praise the Lord God Almighty that in these last days, if we keep seeking, he will give us some more truth, and iron out the creases.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am glad that you find your way out, from faind philosophies.  

Some people they wish to remember earthly situations is too much to painful, and quickly will welcome the notion, that death will end the memories together with the torturous and painfull raiges and uncontrollable motions. 

This is the Gospel Paul preaced. 

There is a New Inheritance for mankind. 

Jesus Christ not only became the inheritor for the New Haevenly Inheritance, for himself only, but he open the way for everyone who believes in him, he made everyone who believes in him a co-inheritor of Heaven. 

His disciples understood that and when that happen at the time when they understood it, they said to Jesus: why don't you take us to Heaven right now: Jesus said is not the time yet, you have a mission here on earth first. Not now when the time comes to die first. 

Jesus said your chamber and your place is here with me in Heaven , there is a place for us who believe in Heaven waiting for us: 

In my Fathers House they are Mansions waiting for us, but in another place he said: 

You must die first, to be taken up there. 

No one will be taken up there like Elisa did, and or Moses, and before the flood Enoch. 

Moses of the Law, and Elisa of the faith, and no one has to descend and follow me to the underworld like I did before I ascended to Heaven. 

The door to Heavens is now open, and the door to Hades or Sheol, are now closed for those who believe in me.

I have the keys of Hades and death the NEW HAS COME, I open and no one can close and close and NO ONE CAN OPEN. 

The Macedonia Man , in phillippie, the Warden said, and not right away, but after he witness the earthquake and the cells open and the bonds of the prisoners fall of, and something miraculous about it, ONLY THE BELIEVERS IN JESUS CHRIST WENT OUT OF THEIR CELLS. 

Then the Warden believed the message of Paul, that in Jesus Christ name not only those who had die before, and accept that Jesus Christ went to the prison bellow and set free all down there, but only those who believed in him were free to follow him out from there. 

Just exactly as it happens in the events that he witness. 

The warden also believed. The message of Paul that there is a NEW INHERITANCE FOR MANKIND THE HEAVENLY ONE, and him been a Greco Roman who were not ignorance of the truth as to life after death, and that there was only one inheritance for mankind the DESCENDED one before Jesus Christ, and him been the Warden and looking at the prisoners every day , he had a consciousness that one day he himself will be a prisoner by default to the Warden down there:  

And believing that there is a new inheritance for mankind the Heavenly one, asked Paul: 

What I must do to be SAVED from been a  prisononer down there, and be included in the Heavenly the New INHERITANCE. 

Paul said receive the Life of Jesus Christ, be part of him by believing in him.

Jesus said: I have the Life, the one WHO BELIEVES IN ME WILL NEVER SEE THE PLACE OF THE DEAD.

I AM THE LIFE AND THE LIGHT , the one who believes in me is in the Heavenly LIGHT, even while he lives here on earth. 

[Sister]

8 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I am glad that you find your way out, from faind philosophies.  

Some people they wish to remember earthly situations is too much to painful, and quickly will welcome the notion, that death will end the memories together with the torturous and painfull raiges and uncontrollable motions. 

Your closest friendnt

I never listened to philosphies of men, but always depended on what was written in the scriptures.  I am not influenced by any teaching of any church but had to find my own way by weighing out the written Word given to us.  I get corrected all the time, ..as things become more clear.  I discovered that just as there are different levels of heavens going up, also different levels of hell going down.  Man is not placed in the deepest level of hell yet, for this one is reserved for the lake of fire.  It goes deep under the earth, and has a bottomless pit, where there is no end.  I am not sure if God will end all the torture when he melts the earth and if they all just disappear into nothing, or if it will keep going on forever.  I just don't know.  All I know is that God is punishing the 'EVIL" of that spirit, that it never be given rest day or night.  To me it makes no sense to punish someone forever and ever and ever, but if this is the Lord's will, then there's nothing we can do about it.

I was just trying to explain to starsong4 about all the different chambers.  All who don't know Christ will be placed in their different catagories according to what's recorded in their own personal book from day dot till death.  If it is full of wickedness and abominations, it will go to a worse chamber, but there is a chamber for the undecided's which doesn't involve harsh torment, because they are on hold so to speak.  However it's a dark place.  They will all stand trial and give an account, and the Lord will have mercy on whomever he will have mercy according to what's in their book.  It's all not just black and white, because there is mercy still there.

 

[Your closest friendnt]

Hello Sister, I do not agree with some not all the things you have said: 

We read in the OT scripture in matters referring to Christ that when he would come , many things will be done with fire and burning . 

Jonh the Baptist said when he saw Jesus;

He is the one who baptizes with the Spirit and the Fire. 

Don't fine that strange? 

What people thing when the hear the word "fire", they referred to their knowledge as to what fire is, quite literally. 

Should we then ourselfs give a quite literal meaning to the statement " this will be done by a consuming fire", or "he baptizes with fire", or other statements which we will put under the surgeons knife, or the telescope. 

Before the day of ansention, Jesus talk to the disciples and asked them to wait till the time , till the baptism of the Holy Spirit. 

Don't you find puzzle, that even the disciples may be wondering about the terms of "this will be done by fire", I thing that of course they may be wondering and they may not know what exactly to expect. 

That does not mean that they did not form their own opinions, and they had quite many examples to go by. 

During the time of anounsing the birth of Samson to his parents, the Angel stand in the fire but was not burned, 

The burning buss, 

The fire of the Lord , his zeal for his people will do that, to set the people free from the Egyptians, and that what happened the people did not have to fight for their freedom. 

Elias consumed the Idolaters, when fire came down from Heaven,

That was literal fire!!!

But in the day of Penticost they disciples found out what it meant " that Jesus baptizes with the Spirit and Fire", soon they witnessed the russing wind and saw the fire that the wind of the Holy Spirit kinded the fire within the disciples, and the how full the disciples were of the fire within that the flames of the fire shoot high above their heads, like a furnish fulest fire, 

(Just like in the story of Daniel, the furnish was at the pick of capacity and more, but Daniel was not burned, because the Lord or an Angel of the Lord was with him. 

And they were in the fire of the Lord . 

Soon they found out how Peter moved by the fire within spoke words that brought repents to the hearts of the people who a little while ago had shouted "free Barrabas", give us Jesus. 

Well they got their wish, they free Barrabas, and Peter gave them Jesus Christ. 

How Peter burned the Idols in the heart of the people and they believed in Jesus Christ. 

Then the disciples realized it was not done by literal fire as in the day of Elias when literal fire came from Heaven to distroy the Idols in the mount Carmel. 

Because after that event the Prophets were saying this "will be done by fire", about something that has not happened before, and will be done for the first time, something new to come. 

They disciples found out. 

As the fire burns and it destroys everything in it's path, at the same time NEW LIFE comes out of the ground .

Paul said the same thing in diferent words, putting the things of the flesh down, with different words and examples.