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Just How Close is the RAPTURE?


Dennis1209

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Such an interesting topic.  I am only a simple woman with a simple mind but a love for Jesus which surpasses human understanding. These verses of scripture I do understand.

2 Peter 3:8 (NIV)
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

Psalms 90:4 (NLT)
For you, a thousand years are as a passing day, as brief as a few night hours.

My limited mentality of biblical theology regarding pre-trib, post-trib, end times, rapture, pre-destination, eschatology, and all of the other major debates over how we got here, why we're here, and where we are going is so far over my abilities to comprehend let alone speak about.  But when my spirit is in tune with the Holy Spirit he speaks words of wisdom that I can understand without all of the terminology of the biblical intellectuals.  My family is tired of years of hearing me say, "Do not put God in a box.  He can do whatever he wants to do, whenever he wants to do it, without the permission of mankind." 

I am here on this earth to love, give, serve, encourage, and speak Jesus's words of eternal life to those who hurt and seek truth. I do this in the simplest way possible for myself and those listening.  I am fishing for the Lord.  Once I land them it is up to the Holy Spirit to meet with them each on a personal level.

 

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28 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:


What is written about 'flying away' OR 'taking flight'

 We know what God will do by what God has done.  His ways do not change, He is not a respecter of persons, the Body of Christ of ONE.  The EXAMPLE has been given us of 'how to get it done',  The Lord was perfected by the things he suffered, AS WE WILL BE.  God didn't spare His only Begotten, he will not treat us differently.  

The desire to avoid suffering and the fear of it is the basis of the so-called rapture doctrines. As you point out, did our Father spare His beloved Son from suffering? Did the Lord promise us a life devoid of suffering? Many of us have suffered much and suffer even now, but that span of time during which we suffer in this world is only for a little while in the sight of God.

After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen, and establish you. (1 Peter 5:10 NASB)

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According to colossians 3, we have already been raised with Christ. My question is does that scripture help us to decode Revelation?

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8 minutes ago, Whyme said:

According to colossians 3, we have already been raised with Christ. My question is does that scripture help us to decode Revelation?

It does indeed, though I wouldn't go so far as to say that it "decodes" the Revelation of Jesus Christ. This does offer insight into the heavenly places. The Spirit of God illuminates our hearts with Truth. 

I don't have all the answers, dear brother, but I do know this: the apostle was given visions by the Lord, scenes from heaven, and time has no meaning where God sits upon His throne. Heaven is His throne and the earth is His footstool, yes?

We also know from the scriptures that there is an appointed time for every matter under heaven and here in the earthly realm, things proceed according to time and times as it pleases the Lord. What is already finished in heaven awaits the appointed time in the earthly realm, something which is beyond our experience in these vessels of clay (flesh). 

You and I are finished in the sight of our Creator, the Son of God who gave us life and who hid us within Himself. Impossible to understand? On our own, yes... but nothing is impossible to Jesus Christ who created all things seen and unseen. :) 

 

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3 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

It does indeed, though I wouldn't go so far as to say that it "decodes" the Revelation of Jesus Christ. This does offer insight into the heavenly places. The Spirit of God illuminates our hearts with Truth. 

I don't have all the answers, dear brother, but I do know this: the apostle was given visions by the Lord, scenes from heaven, and time has no meaning where God sits upon His throne. Heaven is His throne and the earth is His footstool, yes?

We also know from the scriptures that there is an appointed time for every matter under heaven and here in the earthly realm, things proceed according to time and times as it pleases the Lord. What is already finished in heaven awaits the appointed time in the earthly realm, something which is beyond our experience in these vessels of clay (flesh). 

You and I are finished in the sight of our Creator, the Son of God who gave us life and who hid us within Himself. Impossible to understand? On our own, yes... but nothing is impossible to Jesus Christ who created all things seen and unseen. :) 

 

As King David said, God is our hiding place, our refuge. 

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4 hours ago, Marathoner said:

The desire to avoid suffering and the fear of it is the basis of the so-called rapture doctrines. As you point out, did our Father spare His beloved Son from suffering? Did the Lord promise us a life devoid of suffering? Many of us have suffered much and suffer even now, but that span of time during which we suffer in this world is only for a little while in the sight of God.

After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen, and establish you. (1 Peter 5:10 NASB)

 When you have read and studied the whole bible, everything about ESCAPING just screams 'NO WAY, this is not how God has EVER done anything'.  He has never even implied that that is how HE works through any of the actions we see through out the whole book.  


What are we to pickup and WHO are we to follow after?   Who is our Example?  If we look at 95% of those who have served God the answer is quite clear.  these are the things THAT BRING YOU TO FAITH.  These are the things we are told WOULD happen to us.  
 
BUT SHOULDN'T THIS EXPLAIN IT ALL to EVERYONE who reads the WORD?  HOW does one miss the MEANING here?

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; WHO FOR THE JOY THAT WAS SET BEFORE HIM ENDURED the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Hebrews 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

Hebrews 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Hebrews 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

It isn't because WE WANT to go through troubled times and testing on our own but it is BECAUSE we love the LORD GOD so much that THE thought of NOT STANDING UP FOR HIM, in defense of the WORD, being there for God to be able to use, that we FEEL A 'NEED' a deep seated need, NO MATTER THE COST, to do whatever we can to BRING GLORY TO THE LORD.  

We are BEYOND thankful for being created, being loved, being SAVED by the Lord, for the WORD, for the WORK, for the PROMISES,

that it is IMPOSSIBLE to think that any kind of escape, for any amount of time, from any kind of adversary

could EVER be BETTER or compare in JOY, than staying standing and defending, enduring, overcoming and suffering TO THE END, through whatever trying times are on their way.  

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5 hours ago, debrakay said:

Such an interesting topic.  I am only a simple woman with a simple mind but a love for Jesus which surpasses human understanding. These verses of scripture I do understand.

2 Peter 3:8 (NIV)
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

Psalms 90:4 (NLT)
For you, a thousand years are as a passing day, as brief as a few night hours.

My limited mentality of biblical theology regarding pre-trib, post-trib, end times, rapture, pre-destination, eschatology, and all of the other major debates over how we got here, why we're here, and where we are going is so far over my abilities to comprehend let alone speak about.  But when my spirit is in tune with the Holy Spirit he speaks words of wisdom that I can understand without all of the terminology of the biblical intellectuals.  My family is tired of years of hearing me say, "Do not put God in a box.  He can do whatever he wants to do, whenever he wants to do it, without the permission of mankind." 

I am here on this earth to love, give, serve, encourage, and speak Jesus's words of eternal life to those who hurt and seek truth. I do this in the simplest way possible for myself and those listening.  I am fishing for the Lord.  Once I land them it is up to the Holy Spirit to meet with them each on a personal level.

 

Well, that answers the question about what GIFT you received from the Lord. 

Clear as day as I read this I felt the passion you have to EVANGELIZE.  

I have that same passion but mine is towards the STUDY THE WORD.  

Some have that same passion to PROPHECY.  

Isn't it a beautiful thing how GOD uses us ALL in such vast directions they sometimes don't even seem related.  My mother was a SEED PLANTER.  She could walk up to anyone at anytime anywhere and fall into a 5 min conversation in which the person walked away THINKING about where they stood With the Lord.  

Many members of one body JOBS for everyone.  The more we appreciate the passion of others in the direction they are led, the easier it is to love each other for what God has done for us all.  

Thank you, I enjoyed your post.  

 

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30 minutes ago, SONshine said:

Greetings...  I’m a post-tribber, and I’d just like to put down some things that, just maybe, might speak to someone here.  I won’t debate this.:17: ....This subject is very important to me because it is a salvation issue.  So many will be deceived and end up worshiping the antichrist when he comes claiming to be Christ.  This antichrist is none other than Satan.  He was in the garden of Eden from the very beginning and he will return at the 6th trump before the last trump, which is the 7th.  The antichrist comes before the true Jesus Christ.  Many will be deceived when the antichrist comes and will worship him.  This is the great apostasy, my friends.

In a nutshell, this is what I want to share.  I’m repeating myself, but only because it’s that important:

Satan comes at the 6th trump.  Jesus comes at the 7th trump, the last trump, after Satan has been standing in Jerusalem claiming he is God.

Paul explained this so thoroughly and simply that there is no way we can misunderstand who comes first:

2 Thes. 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,

The subject here is "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering unto Him.”

[2] That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Paul is saying "don't be confused about when Christ returns.”

[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Jesus Christ is not returning until the great apostasy (falling away) occurs 
after Satan, the son of perdition (meaning the son who will perish), is revealed.

[4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The spurious messiah, Satan, will have all the credentials necessary to convince the world that he is in fact the Messiah.  He is the deceiver, the master of deception.  He will come in peaceably and prosperously, and the world will worship him.  Again, this will happen at the sixth trump, before Christ returns.

God bless.  

Thank you.  Just thank you.  I LOVE to see GODS WORDS with explanations attached because He wrote it in the way it is to be taught and especially when it comes to this subject the more you see it as God has put forth the harder it is to fall the other way.  The simplicity of Christ shines through.  

One of the best passages for me about how hard the Adversary, the mystery of iniquity, the synagogue of Satan is working is this one.  I am constantly thinking of it when I write out similar things over and over again because IF WE DON'T keep putting forth HIS TRUTH the only thing out there will be their lies,  and they are militant.  BUT the more the lies are written the less like truth they seem.  Simple or complicated.  Easy or confusing.  Gods words or man words.  So, again THANK you, awesome.   

 

Jeremiah 35:1 The word which came unto Jeremiah from the LORD in the days of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, saying,

Jeremiah 35:2 Go unto the house of the Rechabites, and speak unto them, and bring them into the house of the LORD, into one of the chambers, and give them wine to drink.

Jeremiah 35:3 Then I took Jaazaniah the son of Jeremiah, the son of Habaziniah, and his brethren, and all his sons, and the whole house of the Rechabites;

Jeremiah 35:4 And I brought them into the house of the LORD, into the chamber of the sons of Hanan, the son of Igdaliah, a man of God, which was by the chamber of the princes, which was above the chamber of Maaseiah the son of Shallum, the keeper of the door:

Jeremiah 35:5 And I set before the sons of the house of the Rechabites pots full of wine, and cups, and I said unto them, Drink ye wine.

Jeremiah 35:6 But they said, We will drink no wine: for Jonadab the son of Rechab our father commanded us, saying, Ye shall drink no wine, neither ye, nor your sons for ever:

Jeremiah 35:7 Neither shall ye build house, nor sow seed, nor plant vineyard, nor have any: but all your days ye shall dwell in tents; that ye may live many days in the land where ye be strangers.

Jeremiah 35:8 Thus have we obeyed the voice of Jonadab the son of Rechab our father in all that he hath charged us, to drink no wine all our days, we, our wives, our sons, nor our daughters;

Jeremiah 35:9 Nor to build houses for us to dwell in: neither have we vineyard, nor field, nor seed:

Jeremiah 35:10 But we have dwelt in tents, and have obeyed, and done according to all that Jonadab our father commanded us.

Jeremiah 35:11 But it came to pass, when Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon came up into the land, that we said, Come, and let us go to Jerusalem for fear of the army of the Chaldeans, and for fear of the army of the Syrians: so we dwell at Jerusalem.

(who killed Christ, certainly not the Jews of the tribe of Judah)


 

Jeremiah 35:12 Then came the word of the LORD unto Jeremiah, saying,

(and this really hurts doesn't it?)

Jeremiah 35:13 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Go and tell the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, Will ye not receive instruction to hearken to my words? saith the LORD.

Jeremiah 35:14 The words of Jonadab the son of Rechab, that he commanded his sons not to drink wine, are performed; for unto this day they drink none, but obey their father's commandment: notwithstanding I have spoken unto you, rising early and speaking; but ye hearkened not unto me.

Jeremiah 35:15 I have sent also unto you all my servants the prophets, rising up early and sending them, saying, Return ye now every man from his evil way, and amend your doings, and go not after other gods to serve them, and ye shall dwell in the land which I have given to you and to your fathers: but ye have not inclined your ear, nor hearkened unto me.


his people are loyal, they listen, they follow as commanded,  Why don't Christians?  I don't get it.  

Jeremiah 35:16 Because the sons of Jonadab the son of Rechab have performed the commandment of their father, which he commanded them; but this people hath not hearkened unto me:

Jeremiah 35:17 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon Judah and upon all the inhabitants of Jerusalem all the evil that I have pronounced against them: because I have spoken unto them, but they have not heard; and I have called unto them, but they have not answered.

Jeremiah 35:18 And Jeremiah said unto the house of the Rechabites, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Because ye have obeyed the commandment of Jonadab your father, and kept all his precepts, and done according unto all that he hath commanded you:

Jeremiah 35:19 Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Jonadab the son of Rechab shall not want a man to stand before me for ever.

That is the mentality we should all be aware that we are up against.  IMHO.  

 

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1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

 When you have read and studied the whole bible, everything about ESCAPING just screams 'NO WAY, this is not how God has EVER done anything'.  He has never even implied that that is how HE works through any of the actions we see through out the whole book.  


What are we to pickup and WHO are we to follow after?   Who is our Example?  If we look at 95% of those who have served God the answer is quite clear.  these are the things THAT BRING YOU TO FAITH.  These are the things we are told WOULD happen to us.  
 
BUT SHOULDN'T THIS EXPLAIN IT ALL to EVERYONE who reads the WORD?  HOW does one miss the MEANING here?

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; WHO FOR THE JOY THAT WAS SET BEFORE HIM ENDURED the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Hebrews 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

Hebrews 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Hebrews 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

It isn't because WE WANT to go through troubled times and testing on our own but it is BECAUSE we love the LORD GOD so much that THE thought of NOT STANDING UP FOR HIM, in defense of the WORD, being there for God to be able to use, that we FEEL A 'NEED' a deep seated need, NO MATTER THE COST, to do whatever we can to BRING GLORY TO THE LORD.  

We are BEYOND thankful for being created, being loved, being SAVED by the Lord, for the WORD, for the WORK, for the PROMISES,

that it is IMPOSSIBLE to think that any kind of escape, for any amount of time, from any kind of adversary

could EVER be BETTER or compare in JOY, than staying standing and defending, enduring, overcoming and suffering TO THE END, through whatever trying times are on their way.  

It is as you say, sister. The Lord didn't spare me from tribulation and I emerged from the trial thanking God for the work which His Spirit wrought in me. I was afflicted so I might learn of His ways (His statutes) and cherish every word from His mouth (the Law of His mouth) more than anything of this world (thousands of gold and silver pieces).

His Spirit brought me to Psalm 119 and bid me to read; when I was done, I was greatly astonished to find words from my own heart contained therein. How do so many miss it, @DeighAnn? The Lord is the Craftsman and we are His workmanship. The scriptures are rich with references to the Lord refining His handwork as silver is tried in the furnace (suffering and tribulation), and testing the work of His hand like gold is tried (judging the purity).

Why would the Lord of Hosts refuse to finish the work He started? Is He a man who changes His mind? I find no references to the Lord sparing His beloved from suffering and tribulation in the scriptures either; it isn't there. Quite the opposite.

Bless our God, you peoples,
And sound His praise abroad,
Who keeps us in life,
And does not allow our feet to slip.
For You have put us to the test, God;
You have refined us as silver is refined.

(Psalm 66:8-10 NASB)

"Awake, sword, against My Shepherd,
And against the Man, My Associate,”
Declares the Lord of armies.
“Strike the Shepherd and the sheep will be scattered;
And I will turn My hand against the little ones.
And it will come about in all the land,”
Declares the LORD,
“That two parts in it will be cut off and perish;
But the third will be left in it.
And I will bring the third part through the fire,
Refine them as silver is refined,
And test them as gold is tested.
They will call on My name,
And I will answer them;
I will say, ‘They are My people,’
And they will say, ‘The Lord is my God.’

(Zechariah 13:7-9 NASB)

But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner’s fire, and like launderer’s soap. And He will sit as a smelter and purifier of silver, and He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, so that they may present to the Lord offerings in righteousness."
(Malachi 3:2-3 NASB)

In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials, so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which perishes though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise, glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ; and though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, obtaining as the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls. (1 Peter 1:6-9 NASB)

The Lord refines the work of His hand and tests us like gold is tried but as for the wicked, these shall perish by His wrath. 

Edited by Marathoner
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1 minute ago, SONshine said:

Awesome.

I was reading in Joel 2:23 just now, and noticed something I hadn’t noticed before.  The latter rain that will fall is truly for the latter days “in the first month!”  Bring it on, ol’ slewfoot.  The Elect has been waiting “for such a time as this!”  

I periodically get these 'hollowed out from the neck to the stomach,  heart hanging mid air mid chest' feelings when I read a verse.  And I got one when I read this.  So, I went to the Hebrew, Interlinear and the Lexicon and the word 'month' is odd or something.  I would really like to get your take on this,  but right now something feels off, I have no idea why

but I have got to go, so don't have time to really check it out.  If you do and all is cool, cool, if not I will dig when I can.  THANK you again. 

Oh, and I don't know if I have that kind of enthusiasm, absolute willingness and steadfastness yes, BUT I could just be getting really old. Ahhh, I will get back to this later.  Have great night! 

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