Just How Close is the RAPTURE?

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, n2thelight said:

Where do you see Christ ruling from a 3rd Heaven?

Revelation 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

So in the above where does He rule from?

 

Chapter 20 of the Book of Revelation covers the first days of the Millennium, when Jesus Christ comes to earth to establish His kingdom. This chapter runs close to the prophecies of Ezekiel in the last eight (8) chapters of the book of Ezekiel. "Millennium" means "1,000 years". This period is basically a 1,000 years of teaching and learning.

The new earth and heaven does not happen until after the millennium

Revelation 21:1 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."

Hi n2thelight,

Some really good and insightful questions there bro. I will tell you what I believe and you can look at the scriptures yourself. Firstly we know that the Lord Jesus Christ is at the right hand of the Father on the Father`s throne. There He is interceding for us.

`...when he had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,..` (Heb. 1: 3)

`We have a high priest. who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,...` (Heb. 8: 1)

The Lord will be on the Father`s throne till the Father makes His enemies His footstool. Meaning when Christ will rule over them.

`The Lord (Father) said to my Lord (Jesus), "Sit at my right hand, till I make your enemies your footstool."  The Lord shall send the rod of your strength out of Zion, Rule in the midst of your enemies!` (ps. 110: 1 & 2)

There we see that the Father brings all the enemies of the Lord to His footstool and then the Son is given the authority (throne) to rule over them. 

The Son in His deity has been in the Godhead above all created realms - the right hand of the Father. However when it is time for the rebellious to be dealt with then the Son in His glorified body is given the visible rulership in the third heaven (formerly for angels) and rules from the highest realm in the created order.

`...I will grant to sit with me on My throne , as I overcame and sat down with my Father on His throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

All other throne/authorities have their authority from this seat of power in the third heaven. Authority flows from the highest to the lowest position.

Thus once the Lord Jesus Christ has taken His worthy position of supreme ruler over all of the created realms then He sets about step by step to put all rebellious rulership under Him - fallen angels (middle of trib.) world system, (end of trib.) rebellious, (throughout millennium) and finally death, Satan and rebellious nations (end of trib.).

Christ is over all and gives it all back to God the Father.

regards, Marilyn.

 

[n2thelight]

2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi n2thelight,

Some really good and insightful questions there bro. I will tell you what I believe and you can look at the scriptures yourself. Firstly we know that the Lord Jesus Christ is at the right hand of the Father on the Father`s throne. There He is interceding for us.

`...when he had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,..` (Heb. 1: 3)

`We have a high priest. who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,...` (Heb. 8: 1)

The Lord will be on the Father`s throne till the Father makes His enemies His footstool. Meaning when Christ will rule over them.

`The Lord (Father) said to my Lord (Jesus), "Sit at my right hand, till I make your enemies your footstool."  The Lord shall send the rod of your strength out of Zion, Rule in the midst of your enemies!` (ps. 110: 1 & 2)

There we see that the Father brings all the enemies of the Lord to His footstool and then the Son is given the authority (throne) to rule over them. 

The Son in His deity has been in the Godhead above all created realms - the right hand of the Father. However when it is time for the rebellious to be dealt with then the Son in His glorified body is given the visible rulership in the third heaven (formerly for angels) and rules from the highest realm in the created order.

`...I will grant to sit with me on My throne , as I overcame and sat down with my Father on His throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

All other throne/authorities have their authority from this seat of power in the third heaven. Authority flows from the highest to the lowest position.

Thus once the Lord Jesus Christ has taken His worthy position of supreme ruler over all of the created realms then He sets about step by step to put all rebellious rulership under Him - fallen angels (middle of trib.) world system, (end of trib.) rebellious, (throughout millennium) and finally death, Satan and rebellious nations (end of trib.).

Christ is over all and gives it all back to God the Father.

regards, Marilyn.

 

Okay I can agree He's at the right hand of God.

When do you see Christ coming to earth?

The fallen angels don't die until after the trib,as soon as Christ feet hit the ground.

Revelation 11:13 "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

The 7000 are the fallen angels,that's why they die instantly,as they were already sentenced.

Christ returns 3 1/2 days after the two witnesses are killed

Oh the one world system also ceases at this time

Revelation 11:15 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of Our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

 

Now about this 3rd Heaven,I'll offer the below commentary

II Corinthians 12:1 "It is expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord."

Paul is saying that boasting of all that I have done is foolish, but now I am going to tell you of visions and revelations that I have been given by God Himself.

II Corinthians 12:2 "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven."

This man that Paul is telling us about is himself, and he didn't know which body he was in at the time. Remember back in I Corinthians 15 where Paul discussed the two bodies that each of have. There is a inner man, and the outer man, the soul body that will live eternal when we are in Christ, and the flesh man which lives for a short time and then returns to the elements that it is made of in the grave. Paul then is telling us that he doesn't know if he was there in the third heaven in his flesh body, or if only in the spiritual body. In any case, it was while he was in the third heaven that God revealed this revelation to him.

Remember back in II Corinthians 4:16; "For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day." Your inner man is absolutely renewed by God every day of our lives, if we study His Word. It is from His Word that we are strengthened and protected.

Paul knew exactly who this man was that was take to the third heaven, only he is presenting the revelation to the Corinthians as the party of the third part. As one standing back and observing what was taking place. This is done for the sake of making it appear that he is not boasting on himself. Obviously if it was done in any other manner, it would cause attention to himself rather than what he is trying to say. This is what he didn't want, so he removed himself from being the focus of what is being said of the revelation.

II Corinthians 12:3 "And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)"

Paul is restating that he just didn't know if his whole being was taken there, flesh and spiritual, he just didn't know. However there is one thing for sure, and this fact was that God knew, for it is God's business to know such things.

II Corinthians 12:4 "How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."

Paradise is heaven and it is the holding place of all the saints that have died and returned to the Father. Paradise has another part to it also, and there is a gulf that separates the saints from those that refused to accept the sacrifice that Jesus Christ gave on the cross. The overcomers were on one side, and those that did not overcome on the other side. This is what is taught by Christ in Luke 16:19-31 in Jesus' parable of the beggar Lazarus, and the rich man.

Paul is telling us that while he was in paradise, which is the third heaven, that he heard unspeakable words being told to him. These unspeakable words were "inexpressible utterances". It is just not possible for any man to utter or put into any of the human languages with understanding. Paul simply could not convey those thoughts that he was given by God to anyone.

 

[n2thelight]

Just now, n2thelight said:

Okay I can agree He's at the right hand of God.

When do you see Christ coming to earth?

The fallen angels don't die until after the trib,as soon as Christ feet hit the ground.

Revelation 11:13 "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

The 7000 are the fallen angels,that's why they die instantly,as they were already sentenced.

Christ returns 3 1/2 days after the two witnesses are killed

Oh the one world system also ceases at this time

Revelation 11:15 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of Our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

 

Now about this 3rd Heaven,I'll offer the below commentary

II Corinthians 12:1 "It is expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord."

Paul is saying that boasting of all that I have done is foolish, but now I am going to tell you of visions and revelations that I have been given by God Himself.

II Corinthians 12:2 "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven."

This man that Paul is telling us about is himself, and he didn't know which body he was in at the time. Remember back in I Corinthians 15 where Paul discussed the two bodies that each of have. There is a inner man, and the outer man, the soul body that will live eternal when we are in Christ, and the flesh man which lives for a short time and then returns to the elements that it is made of in the grave. Paul then is telling us that he doesn't know if he was there in the third heaven in his flesh body, or if only in the spiritual body. In any case, it was while he was in the third heaven that God revealed this revelation to him.

Remember back in II Corinthians 4:16; "For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day." Your inner man is absolutely renewed by God every day of our lives, if we study His Word. It is from His Word that we are strengthened and protected.

Paul knew exactly who this man was that was take to the third heaven, only he is presenting the revelation to the Corinthians as the party of the third part. As one standing back and observing what was taking place. This is done for the sake of making it appear that he is not boasting on himself. Obviously if it was done in any other manner, it would cause attention to himself rather than what he is trying to say. This is what he didn't want, so he removed himself from being the focus of what is being said of the revelation.

II Corinthians 12:3 "And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)"

Paul is restating that he just didn't know if his whole being was taken there, flesh and spiritual, he just didn't know. However there is one thing for sure, and this fact was that God knew, for it is God's business to know such things.

II Corinthians 12:4 "How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."

Paradise is heaven and it is the holding place of all the saints that have died and returned to the Father. Paradise has another part to it also, and there is a gulf that separates the saints from those that refused to accept the sacrifice that Jesus Christ gave on the cross. The overcomers were on one side, and those that did not overcome on the other side. This is what is taught by Christ in Luke 16:19-31 in Jesus' parable of the beggar Lazarus, and the rich man.

Paul is telling us that while he was in paradise, which is the third heaven, that he heard unspeakable words being told to him. These unspeakable words were "inexpressible utterances". It is just not possible for any man to utter or put into any of the human languages with understanding. Paul simply could not convey those thoughts that he was given by God to anyone.

 

https://www.theseason.org/2corin/2corin12.htm

[Marilyn C]

14 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Okay I can agree He's at the right hand of God.

When do you see Christ coming to earth?

 

Hi n2thelight,

Firstly regarding that commentary, what Paul saw was after the Lord`s ascension. We are told that the Body of Christ is in heaven (Heb. 12: 22 - 24)but those in hell are not there. The Luke (16: 19 - 31) picture is before the Lord`s ascension. 

So to you question - When do you see the Lord coming to earth?

I see that the Lord comes to near the earth for His body and then goes together to the third heaven to begin visible ruling from that realm as kingpriests. (Acts 3: 20& 21)

After the Lord has dealt with the fallen angels mid trib, (having them cast to the earth - limiting their power) and the world system He will come in power and great glory to deal with The world`s armies, the leaders, plus the fallen angels and Satan.

regards, Marilyn. 

[Joulre2abba]

On 3/5/2018 at 5:01 PM, Daniel 11:36 said:

No one knows when the Lord will call His own .... could be before this day is over

He has not given the time [2 Peter 3:7-9] 

The doctrine of immanency is correct in that we in faith look for it to happen soon. However I differ regarding the idea that "it could happen before this day is over."

The bible teaches a specific time that it will occur, as the apostle Paul taught it by speaking of "the last trump". That is referring to a specific trumpet sound made in observance of the Jewish "appointed time" of God celebrated every year at the harvest season. According to the observance, that trumpet sound is for and the rehearsal of the resurrection of the dead that is believed will occur on that appointed day.

That is the next to be fulfilled. The Feasts are: Passover [done], the Feast of Unleavened Bread [done], the Feast of Firstfruits [done], the Feast of Weeks [done], the Feast of Trumpets, the Day of Atonement, and the Feast of Tabernacles.

So yes, God has not given us the timing of the rapture in that we don't know the specific year that it will happen, but we do know the season.

Additional thoughts-

The text from 2 Peter 3:7-9 does not specifically mention the timing of or the rapture. We know that Jesus is coming soon. But God is not in a hurry for it to all begin to happen soon as some consider the meaning of the word, such as those in verse 4 supposed that it should.

But Peter further wrote in way of implication that "the day of His coming" collectively speaks of the entire package: the rapture + the Second Coming + the Millennium + the Day of the fire that cleanses the earth.

[Mike Mclees]

I sight Rev 15 many times but never get anyone's attention yet it is clear. The day of the Lord comes after the antichrist persecutes of the Church 31/2 yrs in great tribulation. Only those who endure to the end will receive honor before God.  The Abomination of Desolation begins this period. The Bride is taken just prior to the wrath of God.  

Is there and Amen here?

[Last Daze]

28 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said:

I sight Rev 15 many times but never get anyone's attention yet it is clear. The day of the Lord comes after the antichrist persecutes of the Church 31/2 yrs in great tribulation. Only those who endure to the end will receive honor before God.  The Abomination of Desolation begins this period. The Bride is taken just prior to the wrath of God.  

Is there and Amen here?

Before Jesus returns, there will be a time a great distress as described in Daniel 12.  This time of distress will affect believers and unbelievers alike, although in different ways.  At first, it is believers who go through a time of great tribulation as everyone is having to decide whether to worship the image or not.  After everyone has made their choice, the plagues are brought to bear on those who chose to make use of the mark and worship the image.  The plagues are a judgment on their sin of idolatry for the purpose of calling them to repent.  They are the means whereby God will restore the new covenant temple of God, the body of Christ.

• I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues."  Revelation 18:4

Some ill-prepared believers will be deceived into receiving the mark and worshiping the image.  The plagues are God's last call to come out of Babylon.

I agree that the AoD starts the prophetic clock ticking.  It will be 1335 days afterward that the day of the Lord comes and the wicked are destroyed.

• How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days!  Daniel 12:12
• “Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.” And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.  Revelation 16:15-16

The day of the Lord, which comes like a thief, comes after the armies gather for Armageddon, on the 1335th day after the AoD.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Last Daze

[Daniel 11:36]

The Lord will activate as a thief .... no warning

And He will resurrect both the dead in Christ and those living at the time

Could happen before this day is over .... the His tribulation period will come for 7 years

If you go there and repent you will know about His next activation as stated .... the battle of Armageddon

[Willie T]

On ‎3‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 5:17 PM, Dennis1209 said:

No debate about that, no one knows the day nor the hour. But we are commanded to watch for the Lord's return and given many things to look for to determine the 'season'. 

Oh, please, please take the time to go understand what that word, "watch" meant in the original language.

[Daniel 11:36]

Oh, please, please take the time to go understand what that word, "watch" meant in the original language

 

It means what it says .... "watch"

And I cannot believe that those who only have Jesus coming back at the end of the tribulation period are telling the truth

He will come when not expected .... just before the tribulation period begins

Your view is skewed 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Daniel 11:36