Just How Close is the RAPTURE?

[n2thelight]

On 3/5/2018 at 4:55 PM, Dennis1209 said:

This short article from the website 'Rapture Ready' outlines just how close our redemption is, if you're a pre-tribulation believer. It nicely dovetails my own view and opinion of the 'season' of the catching up of believers. Rather than copy and paste, the link is below for those interested.

http://www.raptureready.com/2018/03/03/rapture-close-thoughts-matthew-l-rice/

How can you have a how close is the rapture question when it could happen at any time?

[n2thelight]

On 3/5/2018 at 5:17 PM, Dennis1209 said:

No debate about that, no one knows the day nor the hour. But we are commanded to watch for the Lord's return and given many things to look for to determine the 'season'. 

I thought there were no signs,so which is it?

[n2thelight]

Rapture theorists teach that the Coming of Christ for the Church, and our gathering together unto him, is ‘imminent’ (likely to happen at any second). This concept is a pillar of the pre-trib rapture theory, and without it the theory collapses. They claim the Apostle Paul believed this doctrine of ‘the Imminent Return’ because it was revealed to him by God, that he taught this concept to his followers, and wrote his letters (that we know as Scripture) with this notion presented in them. My first question is this:

Exactly when did the Coming of Christ and the Resurrection / Catching-away BECOME imminent? There had to be a time when it was not imminent (before the Cross for example) and then there had to have come a moment when it was now imminent. Exactly when was that moment; when did the rapture BECOME imminent?

[n2thelight]

Let me tell you why the pre-trib rapture theorist will not, and in fact cannot, directly address that question. It is because the truthful answer is catastrophic to their doctrine. The truth is that the Return of Christ for the Church could not have been imminent in the days of the early Church, could not have been imminent down through the centuries, could not be imminent today, and will not be imminent until immediately before it actually happens. This is easily provable by examining the Scriptures themselves.

THE PROOF

There are actually quite a number of prophesies that prohibited the Resurrection / Catching-away from being imminent in the days of the early Church. Let’s first look at just one major road block to this concept: the prophesied death of Peter by being martyred as an old man. The Lord Jesus himself gave this prophesy (John 21:18). It is an irrefutable truism.

Historical writings give us a pretty good idea as to not only when Peter died, but also when Paul died. Smith’s Bible Dictionary says, “According to the early writers, he (Peter) died at or about the same time with Paul, and in the Neronian persecution, A.D. 67 or 68. All agree that he (Peter) was crucified.”

From this information so far we can know the following to be absolutely true:

 Jesus said Peter would die as an old man, therefor the Resurrection / Catching-away could NOT happen until this prophesy was fulfilled.

Paul died about the same time as Peter. This means the Resurrection / Catching away was NOT imminent during the span of Paul’s ministry to the Body of Christ, and therefor God did NOT reveal to him any such thing! It was not a possibility until the death of Peter!

Paul would NOT (under the unction of the Holy Spirit) have taught as doctrine to his followers something that could not possibly happen, nor would he have included this concept in his writings to them. The Scriptures were penned by God himself using holy men as vessels. God does not lie, nor does his Word! It would have been a lie to teach and promote as imminent something NOT possible in his lifetime, amd the Holy Spirit would not have guided Paul to state a falsehood in his writings to the Church!

There are many other prophetic statements standing in the way of an imminent Return that had to be fulfilled first, and many that still need fulfillment (they are scattered throughout the pages of the Bible). For the sake of time and space let’s look at the last one (as far as I can tell) to be fulfilled before the Resurrection of the Just and our gathering together unto our Lord could occur.

 

https://pbenson.me/2016/05/06/bible-proof-the-rapture-theory-is-false/

[Diaste]

On 5/19/2018 at 5:03 PM, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

(Since you love me so much that you call me son, I'll call you Pops)

Pops, there is only one second coming (parousia). I can show Scriptural support for what I believe, which is something you cannot do. Like the Scribes and Pharisees of Christ's day, you corrupt the Scriptures with your tradition. You have a tradition of the last 150 years, a tradition called "the secret rapture", but you have no support from the Word of God.

The parousia (coming) is the arrival and continuing presence of Christ. Paul spoke of it in reference to the gathering of the church.

1Th 4:15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming (parousia) of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

He speaks of it again, mentioning that the gathering together unto Christ takes place then.

2Th 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming (parousia) of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Paul goes on to say that the day of Christ (His coming and our rapture) cannot happen until the falling away (a notable departure from the faith) and the revelation of the man of sin which takes place in the middle of the week.

2Th 2:2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3  Let no man (Pops, et al) deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5  Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6  And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Any believer that hasn't been persistently brainwashed into the pre-trib system, can see that our gathering (rapture) takes place after the Beast declares himself to be God in the rebuilt temple thereby defiling it, and after there is a marked departure from the faith by professors who are offended when persecution comes and are deceived into worshiping the Beast, by the lying wonders performed by the Beast and false prophet.

Unprecedented persecution comes upon the elect (church)

Mat 24:9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

There will be a falling away

Mat 24:10  And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

There will be deceivers

Mat 24:11  And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12  And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Mat 24:13  But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:14  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Jesus says the unparalleled persecution begins when the abomination of desolation takes place

Mat 24:15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mat 24:16  Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17  Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19  And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20  But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The period of unprecedented persecution must be cut short to save some of the elect alive

Mat 24:22  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Christ's arrival will be unmistakable

Mat 24:23  Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25  Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26  Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27  For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28  For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

The arrival of Christ at His coming will follow the cosmic sign which follows the great tribulation

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

At His arrival Christ sends the angels to gather the church unto Himself in the clouds

Mat 24:31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Your problem is that you love your lying tradition more than you do the Word of God. You call both Jesus and Paul liars by your reprehensible stubbornness in continuing to proclaim pretribulationism. You will be so ashamed and weep one day because of this, unless you repent. Think of your friends and family, how many of them will be deceived and eternally damned because you gave them false assurance.

Jesus said:

Mat 24:25  Behold, I have told you before.

It's a shame you arn't listening to what He said, and you think yourself a follower of Jesus Christ. Shame, Shame, Shame on you.

All praise, honour, and glory to the Lamb.

I really appreciate the accuracy of your reporting. It's quite comforting to see others adhere to scripture and the truth of the Lord as tightly as I do. But you know your are never going to get anywhere with Daniel 11:36, don't you? I'd love to see him change, I truly would, for him and for others as you said above. I have seen others come out of this false teaching, I did, so I know it can happen. But there are enemies of the truth out there and I don't think we can expect too much from one who calls themself,  "The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods."

I really think that says all we need to know about this person.

 

[Diaste]

The gathering is at least 3.5 years away from today. Tomorrow it will be the same. And the next day. Until we see the rise of the beast and the confirming of the covenant, the gathering will always be at least 3.5 years away from the current moment.

[JoeChan82]

For some, it is a question of loyalties. When I have tried to show my friends that the neither the imminent return nor the pre-tribulation rapture has any Bible proof, their standard reply is either, "Believe me, you are wrong", or "Do you mean to tell me that (Pick your famous preacher) is wrong and you are right"? I know their position better than they do.  I have read a long list of Dispensationalists on this specific topic. In point of fact, I used to believe all of that until the scriptures convinced me otherwise.

For others, it is the fact that we are not able to state our view, or actually question their view without being vilified and shunned.  I have seen missionaries' support dropped, preachers banned, and others condescended to.  The only defense they have is tired old quips like, "Do you honestly believe that God would beat up his bride?" or "No rapture? Hey, that's no 'blessed hope'!" or "Read your Bible, son".  BUT, because I wanted to be very sure of my position and my first loyalty is the Scriptures, until they can refute scripture with scripture, I will remained unmoved.  

[Last Daze]

26 minutes ago, JoeChan82 said:

For some, it is a question of loyalties. When I have tried to show my friends that the neither the imminent return nor the pre-tribulation rapture has any Bible proof, their standard reply is either, "Believe me, you are wrong", or "Do you mean to tell me that (Pick your famous preacher) is wrong and you are right"? I know their position better than they do.  I have read a long list of Dispensationalists on this specific topic. In point of fact, I used to believe all of that until the scriptures convinced me otherwise.

For others, it is the fact that we are not able to state our view, or actually question their view without being vilified and shunned.  I have seen missionaries' support dropped, preachers banned, and others condescended to.  The only defense they have is tired old quips like, "Do you honestly believe that God would beat up his bride?" or "No rapture? Hey, that's no 'blessed hope'!" or "Read your Bible, son".  BUT, because I wanted to be very sure of my position and my first loyalty is the Scriptures, until they can refute scripture with scripture, I will remained unmoved.  

Understanding the things to come has merit, however, even if we can perfectly predict the coming storm, it means nothing if we've built our lives on the sand and are swept away by it.  First and foremost in the lives of every believer should be knowing and doing the will of God.  That's what distinguishes the wise from the foolish. 

We don't have any control over how things will come to pass but we do decide on how we respond to the things that come our way.  Wisdom is justified by her deeds, not her fantasies, and reality will reveal which foundation we have built our lives on.  Hopefully, our eschatology doesn't lead us to behave foolishly.

[Last Daze]

To answer the OP, 1335 days from the AoD based on Daniel 12.

[Dennis1209]

On 5/30/2018 at 2:26 AM, n2thelight said:

How can you have a how close is the rapture question when it could happen at any time?

Allow me to explain before you join my other friend on the ignore list.

The rapture can occur at any time, period. When you see these things happen (a convergence of everything prophetic), look up, your redemption draws neigh. End-time prophecy is being fulfilled right now and lining up perfectly to be fulfilled. All the exact players and countries are all aligned in preparation for the Eze 38: 39: invasion, to name but one example. Good bye...