Just How Close is the RAPTURE?

[Steve Conley]

1 hour ago, Sojourner414 said:

" I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind. The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”  (Revelation 6:12-17, NASB, emphasis mine)

I know others who believe that the wrath part starts with the sixth seal, and I'm not going to debate them on it. But what I'm going by here is Scripture, and Scripture indicates here that wrath has come already by the time of the sixth seal. The people on earth recognize that they are in the day of wrath. The Lord opened the first seal, all the way to the sixth one, and that all of this is Him setting it into motion. Judgment has in the past involved the Lord lifting His hand from the nations He is judging, and what we're seeing here is Him opening the scroll and allowing to come forth that which He held back until now. The fifth seal in particular demonstrates that the Lord is waiting for those whom Man has slain to reach their number. When the Antichrist comes into power and starts destroying believers, that is a matter the Lord handles separately.

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

So...414, the fifth seal promises God's wrath, the sixth seal portends God's wrath, the sealing of the 144,000 protects them through God's wrath, the innumerable multitude find themselves safe having been removed from the sphere of God's wrath, the seventh seal pronounces God's wrath, the half hour of silence in Heaven contemplates God's wrath, the blowing of the first trumpet initiates God's wrath.

Hallelujah

[n2thelight]

Since Christians are the only ones during the tribulation that can be deceived,how is there a rapture before?

[n2thelight]

You rapturist are the reason God will send the strong delusion ,and it's for your own good...

[Steve Conley]

5 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Since Christians are the only ones during the tribulation that can be deceived,how is there a rapture before?

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

n2thelight, it is true that the church will be here to experience the unprecedented persecution brought on by the Beast, False Prophet, and their followers. Nonetheless, you better read what Jesus said on the Mount of Olives again, because you and He disagree, and I'm going with Him.

Mat 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23  Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25  Behold, I have told you before.

There are multitudes who are "Christian" in name only, these, along with the rest of the world, will be deceived into worshiping the Beast and receiving his mark by the signs, lying wonders and false prophets. However, it is impossible for the truly elect (genuine Christians) to be deceived into receiving the mark and worshiping the Beast. We, as Peter did, should be calling upon "professing Christians" to make their calling and election sure.

The multitudes of "professors", those who call themselves Christians, but who don't know Christ, will be offended and fall away when they face unprecedented persecution.

Mat 24:9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10  And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11  And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12  And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

Mat 13:20  But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
Mat 13:21  Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

But those who are Christians indeed, will persevere, even unto death.

Rev 14:12  Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 14:13  And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Rev 13:10  He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Luk 21:19  In your patience possess ye your souls.

Rev 12:11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Hallelujah

Edited June 9, 2018 by Steve Conley

[n2thelight]

8 minutes ago, Steve Conley said:

Mat 24:24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elec

All Christians are not of the elect.

Let's take this false rapture as an example,I have no doubt that those who believe this doctrine are true Christians, however the danger is most will worship the beast without even knowing it.

satan pretending to be Christ is what the tribulation is all about. Most of the world will believe this lie.

Except for the Elect as they will be sealed,which is the truth of the Word,and this theory (rapture) is a lie.

[Guest shiloh357]

13 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

All Christians are not of the elect.

All genuine followers of Jesus are elect.  There are many who claim to be "Christians" who are not elect because they embraced a religion instead of Jesus.

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Let's take this false rapture as an example,I have no doubt that those who believe this doctrine are true Christians, however the danger is most will worship the beast without even knowing it.

Not true.  In fact, those who worship the beast and who take the mark will do so willingly and knowingly.  

 

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satan pretending to be Christ is what the tribulation is all about. Most of the world will believe this lie.

No, He will not pretend to be Christ.  

 

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Except for the Elect as they will be sealed,which is the truth of the Word,and this theory (rapture) is a lie.

 

Nope.  The elect will be in Heaven and it will be those who rejected Jesus that will gladly want and take the Mark and willingly and gladly worship the beast.  The rapture is not lie, at all.  It is the truth.

[Willie T]

How is it that people speak of being "true Christians" because they follow Jesus, yet they totally ignore the fact that Jesus never breathed one single word about something called a "rapture?"
  And you would think THAT would be the most important and primary thing He would tell His followers about.  It would be shouted from every other page of His gospels.

[1to3]

14 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Nope.  The elect will be in Heaven and it will be those who rejected Jesus that will gladly want and take the Mark and willingly and gladly worship the beast.  The rapture is not lie, at all.  It is the truth.

Yes shiloh this is how I have always been taught, but there have been now so many threads and members here on worthy that are saying that there will be no rapture before the tribulation and both sides pointing with scripture to defend their stance. It has made me now not know for sure what it will truly be. But as a Christians having a daily relationship with Christ we are told in scripture to persevere no matter what trials befall us , so whether the rapture happens before the tribulation begins or not, it is good for us walking the walk in Christ Jesus to just continue our walk of faith in Him and work out our own salvation with fear and trembling,

The bible says no one will know the hour when these things will come about but nevertheless to be prepared as the coming of the Lord will be like a thief coming in the night when we least expect it.

1 Thessalonians 5:2

The Day of the Lord
1Now about the times and seasons, brothers, we do not need to write to you. 2For you are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and security,” destruction will come upon them suddenly, like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.…

 

Philippians 2:12

11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 12Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. 13For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good pleasure.…

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, 1to3 said:

Yes shiloh this is how I have always been taught, but there have been now so many threads and members here on worthy that are saying that there will be no rapture before the tribulation and both sides pointing with scripture to defend their stance. It has made me now not know for sure what it will truly be. But as a Christians having a daily relationship with Christ we are told in scripture to persevere no matter what trials befall us , so whether the rapture happens before the tribulation begins or not, it is good for us walking the walk in Christ Jesus to just continue our walk of faith in Him and work out our own salvation with fear and trembling,

Most of us who believe in the rapture are prepared to be wrong.   We are prepared, generally speaking, for the possibility of having to go through the Tribulation or part of it. No one is so naïve as not to be prepared.   

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The bible says no one will know the hour when these things will come about but nevertheless to be prepared as the coming of the Lord will be like a thief coming in the night when we least expect it.

Which is why that promise is made ONLY to believers and why it makes sense that it is the rapture.   The 2nd coming is not like a thief in the night.   The minute the Tribulation starts, you have a 7 year countdown to the return of Jesus. 

But Jesus said that He will come in an hour that we think not.  So that rules out the 2nd coming, it rules out a post Tribulation rapture, again, because of the countdown for seven years AND it rules out a mid-trib rapture for the same reason. 

Only a pre-trib rapture makes sense because there are no signs for it.  No way to know when it will happen.  It will just happen and we will be taken to Heaven to be with Jesus.  It's what Paul calls, "our blessed hope."

[1to3]

15 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

  The minute the Tribulation starts, you have a 7 year countdown to the return of Jesus. 

So just to understand, are you saying the the rapture of Christs, where true Christians are changed in the blinking of an eye, will begin before the seven year tribulation.?  or in the middle period 3 1/2 years of the tribulation , just before the anti christ takes complete control?

Edited June 9, 2018 by 1to3