Just How Close is the RAPTURE?

[n2thelight]

54 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Nope.  The elect will be in Heaven and it will be those who rejected Jesus that will gladly want and take the Mark and willingly and gladly worship the beast.  The rapture is not lie, at all.  It is the truth.

If all Christians are of the elect please tell me why they need to be sealed if they should be in heaven? 

[n2thelight]

22 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Only a pre-trib rapture makes sense because there are no signs for it.  No way to know when it will happen.  It will just happen and we will be taken to Heaven to be with Jesus.  It's what Paul calls, "our blessed hope."

If there are no signs why did He give us all of them in

Matthew 24

Mark 13

Mark 13:37 "And what I say unto you I say unto all, watch.

What are we watching for.Did He not just give us the signs throughout this chapter? 

Mark 13:4 "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled.

 

[Brother Duke]

31 minutes ago, Willie T said:

How is it that people speak of being "true Christians" because they follow Jesus, yet they totally ignore the fact that Jesus never breathed one single word about something called a "rapture?"
  And you would think THAT would be the most important and primary thing He would tell His followers about.  It would be shouted from every other page of His gospels.

The word rapture is derived from one word harpazo which is used 14 times in the NT in different scriptures.  FROM strong's:   to seize, catch up, snatch away.  The harpazo is just part of how the resurrection occurs.  It is not a whole doctrine's on it's own.

Looking below in the English word plunder is harpazo in the Greek.

Mat 12:29 "Or else how can one enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house.

[Guest shiloh357]

24 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

If there are no signs why did He give us all of them in

Matthew 24

Mark 13

Mark 13:37 "And what I say unto you I say unto all, watch.

What are we watching for.Did He not just give us the signs throughout this chapter? 

Mark 13:4 "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled.

 

Those are not signs for the rapture.  And Matt. 24 is for the Jews not the Church

[Steve Conley]

2 minutes ago, 1to3 said:

Yes shiloh this is how I have always been taught, but there have been now so many threads and members here on worthy that are saying that there will be no rapture before the tribulation and both sides pointing with scripture to defend their stance. It has made me now not know for sure what it will truly be. But as a Christians having a daily relationship with Christ we are told in scripture to persevere no matter what trials befall us , so whether the rapture happens before the tribulation begins or not, it is good for us walking the walk in Christ Jesus to just continue our walk of faith in Him and work out our own salvation with fear and trembling,

The bible says no one will know the hour when these things will come about but nevertheless to be prepared as the coming of the Lord will be like a thief coming in the night when we least expect it.

1 Thessalonians 5:2

The Day of the Lord
1Now about the times and seasons, brothers, we do not need to write to you. 2For you are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and security,” destruction will come upon them suddenly, like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.…

 

Philippians 2:12

11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 12Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. 13For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good pleasure.…

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

1to3, you can rest confident that we, the church, will not experience God's wrath upon the day of the Lord. Notice that Paul's statement in 1Thes 5:9, that we are not appointed unto wrath, comes in the context of Christ's arrival upon the day of the Lord as seen in vss 2 and 3.

1Th 5:2  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3  For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4  But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5  Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
...
1Th 5:9  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

The day will catch the unbelieving, beast worshiping world unawares, but we won't be caught by surprise. "But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief". Jesus told us in Matt 24 what signs would precede His coming. Paul tells us of them also. Many were first spoken of by the prophets.

We can expect:

1. The return of Elijah (Mal. 4:5)
2. The rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem (Matt 24:15)
3. The re-institution of the daily sacrifice and oblation in the rebuilt temple (Dan 9:27)
4. A turbulent 3.5 year period Jesus called the beginning of sorrows (Matt 24:4-8; Rev 6:1-6)
5. The revelation of the man of sin in the temple (the Beast) (Matt 24:15; 2Thes 2:3-4)
6. The unprecedented persecution Jesus called "great tribulation" (Matt 24:15, 21-22; Dan 12:1; Jer 30:7)
7. The apostasia (a notable departure from the faith as the result of the persecution and deception) (Mat 24:9-12, 24; 2Thes 2:3-10)
8. Immediately before His return there will be a mega earthquake and the cosmic sign Joel spoke of (Joel 2:31; Isa 2:19; Rev 6:12-17; Matt 24:29)

These are a few of the reasons we will not be caught by surprise. In fact Luke records Christ's words concerning what we should do when we see the final signs of His arrival.

Luk 21:25  And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26  Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

We will see the sign of Christ's immediate return, the great earthquake and the sun, moon, and stars going dark and the world's fearful response. It is immediately after these that Jesus will be coming in the clouds with the mighty angels for all the world to see.

Luk 21:27  And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Jesus tells us when we see these last signs began to happen, look up and be encouraged for our redemption is nigh.

Luk 21:28  And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

If I've made it alive through the unprecedented persecution, at that time I'll have my eyes on the skies looking for Him who is my blessed hope. For He will at that time appear any moment, revealing Himself in His glory to all the world.

Rev 1:7  Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Know of a certainty that we are not appointed unto God's wrath. But know with equal certainty that the last generation of the church will experience unprecedented persecution that Jesus called "great tribulation". Draw close to Him and He will give you the strength and grace to persevere.

Rev 12:11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

All praise, honour, and glory be unto the Lamb 

[Guest shiloh357]

37 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

If all Christians are of the elect please tell me why they need to be sealed if they should be in heaven? 

I didn't say all "Christians."  I said all genuine followers of Jesus.  Not every person who bears the title of "Christian"  is a genuine follower of Jesus.

[inchrist]

10 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Those are not signs for the rapture.  And Matt. 24 is for the Jews not the Church

Then youre doctrine of imminence is for the jews

But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son...So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

By the way here goes your pre trib rapture completely out the window

Mat 12:29 "Or else how can one enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house.

 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, inchrist said:

Then youre doctrine of imminence is for the jews

Nope.

[Guest shiloh357]

58 minutes ago, 1to3 said:

So just to understand, are you saying the the rapture of Christs, where true Christians are changed in the blinking of an eye, will begin before the seven year tribulation.?  or in the middle period 3 1/2 years of the tribulation , just before the anti christ takes complete control?

The only way the rapture could happen and we NOT know when it could happen is before the rapture.  Otherwise, we can simply mark off 42 months and know exactly when it would happen, completely making any claim that no man knows the day or hour obsolete.

[inchrist]

7 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Nope.

Nope?

You just stated

And Matt. 24 is for the Jews not the Church

 

Matthew 24

But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,^[f]but only the Father. ³⁷ As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. ³⁸ For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; ³⁹ and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.⁴⁰ Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. ⁴¹ Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

 

Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. ⁴³ But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. ⁴⁴ So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

⁴⁵ “Who then is the faithful and wise servant,whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? ⁴⁶ It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. ⁴⁷ Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.⁴⁸ But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ ⁴⁹ and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. ⁵⁰ The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. ⁵¹ He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

The doctrine of imminence is then for the jews.

And the following is not for the church since Paul is quoting the Olivet discourse verbatim

1 th 5

 

The Day of the Lord

5 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, ² for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. ³ While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape

Edited June 9, 2018 by inchrist