Just How Close is the RAPTURE?

[Brother Duke]

4 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

The only way the rapture could happen and we NOT know when it could happen is before the rapture.  Otherwise, we can simply mark off 42 months and know exactly when it would happen, completely making any claim that no man knows the day or hour obsolete.

Counting 42 months does not give the exact day or hour.  Just the same we can know the season.

1Th 5:1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you.

1Th 5:4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

1Th 5:9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, Brother Duke said:

Counting 42 months does not give the exact day or hour.  Just the same we can know the season.

1Th 5:1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you.

1Th 5:4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

1Th 5:9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

No because Jesus said it will take us by surprise. 

[Guest shiloh357]

11 minutes ago, inchrist said:

Nope?

You just stated

 

 

Matthew 24

But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,^[f]but only the Father. ³⁷ As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. ³⁸ For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; ³⁹ and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.⁴⁰ Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. ⁴¹ Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

 

Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. ⁴³ But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. ⁴⁴ So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

⁴⁵ “Who then is the faithful and wise servant,whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? ⁴⁶ It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. ⁴⁷ Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.⁴⁸ But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ ⁴⁹ and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. ⁵⁰ The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. ⁵¹ He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

The doctrine of imminence is then for the jews.

And the following is not for the church since Paul is quoting the Olivet discourse verbatim

1 th 5

 

The Day of the Lord

5 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, ² for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. ³ While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape

I didn't say it was written to the Jews, but that is concerned with the Jews in Israel.  Those are the only people who would pray that their flight would not be on the sabbath and they would be the ones who would see the abomination of desolation. 

I am going to against the traditional Amillennial interpretation that makes the fall of Jerusalem, "the return of Jesus"  thus identifying the "Israel" or "Jerusalem" of Matt. 24 as the Church

[inchrist]

9 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

I didn't say it was written to the Jews, but that is concerned with the Jews in Israel. 

Therefore the doctrine of imminence is concerned with the jews and not the church 

And since Paul is quoting the Olivet discourse verbatim in 1 th 5 he is concerned with the jews and not the church

 

Edited June 9, 2018 by inchrist

[Brother Duke]

14 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

No because Jesus said it will take us by surprise. 

But Paul says we are not in Darkness and Christ says to watch.  What is the point of watching if it does us no good?

 

Even if we do not know the hour we can discern the times if we study and watch.

 

Mar 13:35 "Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming--in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning--

[inchrist]

7 minutes ago, Brother Duke said:

But Paul says we are not in Darkness and Christ says to watch.  What is the point of watching if it does us no good?

 

Even if we do not know the hour we can discern the times if we study and watch.

 

Mar 13:35 "Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming--in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning--

He's 100% correct the church will be surprised according to pretrib Christ is only concerned with the Jews to keep watch and since matthew 13:35 is quoting the olivet discourse it is only concerned with Jews.

[Guest shiloh357]

14 minutes ago, Brother Duke said:

But Paul says we are not in Darkness and Christ says to watch.  What is the point of watching if it does us no good?

We watch so that we are ready, not so that we will know when it happens.

Quote

Even if we do not know the hour we can discern the times if we study and watch.

Which is how date setters keep their foot in the door.  

[Steve Conley]

12 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

No because Jesus said it will take us by surprise. 

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Paul said, we are not in darkness that the day should overtake us as a thief.  The day will only come as a thief upon the unbelieving, Beast worshipers, who will have almost extinguished every last believer from the earth (1Thes 5:2-5; Luke 18:7-8; Matt 24:21-22).

We have been told what signs precede our Lord's coming. We have been told to watch, yet pre-tribbers who believe in the any moment rapture have nothing to watch for. They think Christ comes unexpectedly at any moment. That is the essence of being surprised. There is nothing to watch for in an instantaneous appearing. That is utter foolishness. The Bible teaches watchful expectancy, not imminency. The only time Christ's coming will be imminent will be after the great earthquake and the cosmic sign takes place (Joel 2:31; Rev 6:12-17; Luke 21:25-28; Matt 24:29-31).

Concerning the 42 months the Beast is given:

1. The Beast is revealed in the middle of the week (2Thes 2:3-4; Matt 24:15; Dan 9:27)
2. From his revelation he will continue 42 months (Rev 13:5)
3. During his 42 months he makes war upon the saints and overcomes them (Dan 7:21; Rev 13:7)
4. The period of unprecedented persecution called great tribulation begins at the revelation of the Beast which defiles the temple causing the sacrifice and oblation to cease (Matt 24:15, 21; Dan 9:27)
5. The unprecedented persecution will continue until it is cut short to save some of the elect alive upon the earth (Matt 24:22)
6. The great tribulation is ended by the removal of the elect from the earth at Christ's coming (Matt 24:29-31)
7. The beast continues until his 42 months are up while the earth dwellers experience the retributive wrath of God for their rebellion and their persecution of the saints (2Thes 1:6-10; 1Thes 5:2-3)

We will not experience God's wrath, but most certainly we will experience Satan's (Rev 12:12) if we are the last generation of the church.

Hallelujah

 

 

Edited June 10, 2018 by Steve Conley

[Brother Duke]

2 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

We watch so that we are ready, not so that we will know when it happens.

Which is how date setters keep their foot in the door.  

I study and watch not to be caught off guard.  Still just the same it will be on a day God appoints and God has many appointed times that most Christians know nothing about or believe God's appointed times do not concern them.

[JoeChan82]

Pre-wrath is not exactly the same a mid-trib. So you can't mark off 42 months.