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The Significance of the Technical Term "Earth Dwellers" to the Formation of a Biblical Eschatological Model


Steve Conley

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1 hour ago, inchrist said:

Sorry just a question why do you treat cosmic sign as singular?

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

inchrist, I treat this sign as singular because Jesus identifies it as the sign that comes immediately before His coming. Yes there will be more cosmic activity as the day of the Lord progresses, but this is a sign like no other. Joel said it precedes the day of the Lord (Joel 2:31). The day of the Lord begins with Christ's return. Remember, the second "coming" (parousia = arrival and continuing presence of Christ) isn't a single day (24 hour) event, it continues through the millennial reign of Christ. The second coming is virtually the same as the day of the Lord. The day of the Lord is Christ's coming with emphasis upon Christ's interaction with the world. Just as the day of Christ is His coming with emphasis upon His interaction with His Church. The second coming (the day of the Lord, the day of Christ) is a long period of time, like Christ's first coming, which was much more than His birth, it involved the whole of His interaction with mankind until He was received up into heaven.

This sign is not a normal and reoccurring, blood-moon, solar eclipse, or the like. It is a sudden (1Thes 5:2-3) great cosmic disturbance associated with a mega earthquake that shakes the whole earth getting everyone's attention. All the created luminaries are darkened so our Saviour can make an appearance like no other. Jesus appears in all the brightness of His glory with the holy angels in the clouds of heaven for every eye to see (Rev 1:7). His return is unmistakable as He said it would be (Matt 24:27). Natural cosmological events cannot fulfill the many statements concerning this cosmic event. This is a great cosmic event that signals Christ's return. It is when we see this that we are to look up and lift up our heads, for our redemption draweth nigh (Luke 21:25-28).

The disciples asked Jesus "...what shall be the sign of thy coming...". Jesus tells them of the events or happenings that lead right up to His singular second coming.

1) Beginning of sorrows. (Matt 24:4-8; Rev 6:1-6) Deception, conquest, war, and famine. Nothing unparralleled about it. More of the same that has been taking place for the last 2000 years. Jesus says concerning this, "the end is not yet".

2) Great tribulation. (Matt 24:9-29; Rev 6:7-11) The unparalleled persecution of the elect (church) and Israel.

3) The cosmic sign appears. (Matt 24:29; Rev 6:12-17)

4) Christ appears in the clouds with the holy angels. (Matt 24:30; Rev 1:7) This is the beginning of His parousia.

5) The dead in Christ are raised incorruptible and those believers who are alive and remain are changed. (Dan 12:1-2; 1Cor 15:51-52)

6) Christ gathers us unto Him via the angels. (Matt 24:31; 1Thes 4:115-17)

7) We are taken to the Fathers house in Heaven to stand before the throne. (John 14:3; Rev 7:9-17)

8) He begins to pour out His wrath upon the earth dwellers after a half hour of silence in Heaven. (Rev 8)

All praise, honour, and glory be unto the Lord Jesus Christ.

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2 hours ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

inchrist, I treat this sign as singular because Jesus identifies it as the sign that comes immediately before His coming. Yes there will be more cosmic activity as the day of the Lord progresses, but this is a sign like no other. Joel said it precedes the day of the Lord (Joel 2:31).

the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken

Which you reference Joel too occurs before the sign

 

Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, inchrist said:
On ‎3‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 8:59 PM, Unfailing Presence said:

A believer cannot place him or her self in the midst of the tribulation short of giving themselves the preeminence  .

Why not? Where does it state God will remove you from tribulation?

Just try it . 

What will present day Christians be doing during the tribulation ? 

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7 minutes ago, Unfailing Presence said:

What will present day Christians be doing during the tribulation ? 

SAME THING,  same way of living,  they are DOing during TODAY.

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59 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Not sure how that's relevant but, okay.  I left the pretrib camp decades ago.

No matter how you spin it, the fact remains that only the sign of the son of Man, the Lamb, is seen at the sixth seal.  There is no mention of seeing Jesus, or Him on the clouds.  It's simply not there.  The sky is split apart with no mention of seeing any clouds or Jesus. 

And at the sixth seal, people are hiding for fear of what's to come.  That is not a response of people who are mourning.  Mourning is an expression of sorrow, and doesn't cause people to hide.  Crying would be an appropriate response of one mourning but not hiding in caves.  I've never been to a funeral where people are looking for somewhere to hide.  At the sixth seal, people fear.  When the son of Man appears in the clouds, they mourn.  Two completely different points in time.  Two completely different reactions.

And the sixth seal is not the last day.  The resurrection of the righteous unto immortality takes place on the last day as Jesus stated several times.

  • And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.  Matthew 24:30

Two different things are seen, the sign of the Son of Man, and then the Son of Man.  They are not the same.  The first one occurs at the sixth seal.  The second one occurs at the seventh trumpet.

Greetings in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord,

Last Daze, the scenario that you present has too many problems to be viable.

1) The first is that which I already showed you. Mark's gospel and Luke's gospel both present Christ's coming in the clouds as following the cosmic sign, not that it takes place after some unknown interval.

Mar 13:24  But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
Mar 13:25  And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
Mar 13:26  And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mar 13:27  And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Luk 21:25  And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26  Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27  And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28  And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Notice the flow in each passage from the cosmic sign right into Christ's second coming (parousia = His arrival and continuing presence)

2) The next would be the fact that the day of the Lord comes suddenly upon the Christ rejecting world, as a thief, at an unexpected time.

1Th 5:2  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3  For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

The same Greek word translated "sudden" here is used by Luke and is translated "unawares."

Luk 21:34  And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

If there is a warning that the whole world sees, that takes place many days, months, or years ahead of Christ's appearing, it cannot be sudden destruction. See how Paul describes it:

2Th 1:6  Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7  And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

The believer's rest from persecution only comes in one of two ways: at the believers death or at Christ's coming. The rest from persecution for the believer happens on the same day that tribulation falls upon the unbeliever.

Notice that apokalupsis translated "shall be revealed" is found in various passages referring to Christ's singular second coming for His saints.

1Co 1:7  So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1Pe 1:7  That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

1Pe 1:13  Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

1Pe 4:13  But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

His revelation with His holy angels is one and the same as His appearing for His saints. There are not two second comings.

3) The saints are not appointed unto wrath. The wrath in question is God's, sudden, day of the Lord wrath.

1Th 5:2  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3  For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4  But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5  Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
...
1Th 5:9  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10  Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

The word wrath (or-gay') appears in the book of revelation for the first time at the end of Rev 6 when the earth-dwellers are said to be hiding, because they recognize that the day of God's fierce wrath is upon them. The wrath of God doesn't fall until the first trumpet is blown in Rev chapter 8. Since the saints are said to be kept from the hour of temptation, which is God's wrath on the day of the Lord, we are raptured from the earth first.

4) Jesus says that His wrath falls upon the unbelieving world the very same day (24 hours) that His own are taken to safety.

Luk 17:26  And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27  They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28  Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29  But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30  Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

5) From that same passage we see that Jesus says it will be business as usual for the world when His wrath falls upon them.

There is no tribulation for those who are persecuting the church until God suddenly begins to pour out His wrath upon them. They are caught by surprise, just like those in Noah's and Lot's days. They are caught like a thief, but the watching believer is not. Those of us left alive, when we experience great tribulation, will be looking for the cosmic sign and when we see it we will look up and lift up our heads because Jesus will be here for us at any moment. This is a true description of the only any moment rapture the Bible speaks of.

Hallelujah

 

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"What will present day Christians be doing during the tribulation ?"

[Revelation 3:10; 4:4; 5:1-10; 7:9-17; 11:1; 13:6; 17:14; 18:4; 19:1]

These will return with the Lord to the earth and rule with Him during the millennial kingdom upon the earth [Revelation 19:14; 20:4 [those on thrones] 

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6 minutes ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord,

Last Daze, the scenario that you present has too many problems to be viable.

There is no tribulation for those who are persecuting the church until God suddenly begins to pour out His wrath upon them. They are caught by surprise, just like those in Noah's and Lot's days. They are caught like a thief, but the watching believer is not. Those of us left alive, when we experience great tribulation, will be looking for the cosmic sign and when we see it we will look up and lift up our heads because Jesus will be here for us at any moment. This is a true description of the only any moment rapture the Bible speaks of.

Hallelujah

 

I'm not going to belabor the issue because ultimately, our perception of how things are going to happen matters little.  What matters is that we have the spiritual fortitude to endure to the end, however and whenever that comes about.

Blessings brother.

Edited by Last Daze
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1 hour ago, simplejeff said:
1 hour ago, Unfailing Presence said:

What will present day Christians be doing during the tribulation ? 

SAME THING,  same way of living,  they are DOing during TODAY.

That does not sound so bad .

 Jesus really was exaggerating the tribulation conditions .

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"I'm not going to belabor the issue because ultimately, our perception of how things are going to happen matters little.  What matters is that we have the spiritual fortitude to endure to the end, however and whenever that comes about"

 

What about those who are dead and waiting for the Lord to call them?

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54 minutes ago, Unfailing Presence said:

Just try it . 

What will present day Christians be doing during the tribulation ? 

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Unfailing Presence, to answer your question we must qualify what is meant by Christians. If we use the definition: "those who call themselves Christians", then the answer to your question is two fold. Of the 2.2-2.4 billion upon the earth that identify as Christian, most certainly, only a small percentage of them actually know Christ. This means that there are two different answers. One concerning the true believer and the other to those who only profess, but are not possessors.

What will become of those who are professors but not possessors in the great tribulation?

1) When they begin to be persecuted they will be offended and fall away.

Mat 24:9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10  And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Mat 13:20  But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
Mat 13:21  Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

2) They will hate and betray true believers, even their friends and family.

Mat 24:12  And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

Mar 13:12  Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
Mar 13:13  And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

3) God will send them strong delusion.

2Th 2:11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

4) They will be deceived into worshiping the Beast and receiving his mark.

Mat 24:11  And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Mat 24:24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

2Th 2:9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Rev 13:13  And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14  And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15  And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16  And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17  And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

5) Upon receiving the mark they forever fix their eternal destiny. Their destiny is to be eternally damned, from which there is no repentance.

Rev 14:9  And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10  The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11  And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

6) They will be going about their business in peace and safety, building their comfortable societies, while the true church is being persecuted unto death.

Luk 17:26  And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27  They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28  Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29  But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30  Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

1Th 5:3  For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

What will the very elect be doing during great tribulation?

1) We will be experiencing unparalleled persecution.

Mat 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Dan 12:1  And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2) We will be hated of all nations.

Mat 24:9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

3) We will be betrayed by those close to us.

Mar 13:12  Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
Mar 13:13  And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

4) We will be beheaded.

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5) When we are persecuted we will be faithful unto death.

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 6:9  And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10  And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11  And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Rev 12:11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Rev 14:12  Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 14:13  And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Rev 13:10  He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

6) We will flee.

Mat 24:16  Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17  Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19  And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20  But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

7) We will be cut of from our respective societies.

Rev 13:17  And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

8) We will suffer hunger, thirst, and exposure to the elements.

Rev 7:14  And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15  Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Rev 7:16  They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
Rev 7:17  For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

9) We will be sick, made naked, and imprisoned.

Mat 25:34  Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35  For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36  Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37  Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38  When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39  Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40  And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

10) Some will help us. (see the text above)

11) Those of us that endure to the end of the great tribulation will not see death but be saved or delivered (changed and raptured).

Mar 13:13  And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Dan 12:1  And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

1Th 4:15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Hallelujah

 

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