Tree of Knowledge, Garden of Eden

[JohnR7]

1 hour ago, Yowm said:

If you truly believe the Scriptures are truly inspired by God you would acknowledge as well that they are without error in every field of study they touch upon. This would mean that they are incompatible with evolution in many many ways.

Francis Collins is the expert on Theistic Evolution so I will have to defer to him on this. Also Gerald Schneider has a PhD from MIT so he is more of an expert on the subject then I am so you can look into what he has to say about all of this. 

[JohnR7]

2 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

It was all done that we might become children of the second Adam .

What we lost in the 1st Adam we have gained a gazillion times in Christ .

Even the angels are amazed and perplexed seeking to " look into "  what is our inheritance in Jesus . 

No angel in heaven right now has any privilege so exalted as to come into His immediate  presence to make intercession for our fellow man & woman .

                                                   " in your prayers make intercession for all men ."      ( 1 Timothy 2 : 1 ) 

Ephesians 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us.

No matter how much we can think or imagine Heaven is going to be exceedingly abundantly above and beyond our efforts to understand.

[Mary8]

I would like to mention a book,  "Signature in the Cell:  DNA and the Evidence for Intelligent Design."  It is by Stephen C. Meyer, published by HarperOne An Imprint of HarperCollins Publishers, copyright 2009.   Oversized paperback. 611 pages.   The book was A Times Literary Supplement Book of the Year.

Here are some comments:

"A  defining work in the discussion of life's origins.... this book is an engaging, eye-opening, and often eye-popping read."  The American Spectator

"A decisive case based upon breathtaking and cutting-edge science."  Dr. Philip S. Skell, member, National Academy of Sciences, and Evan Pugh Professor Emeritus at Pennsylvania State University.

"A fascinating exploration.... Whether you believer intelligent design is true or false, Signature in the Cell is a must-read book."  Dr Scott Turner, professor, environmental and forest biology, State University of New York, and author of The Tinkerer's Accomplice.

"A careful presentation of this fiendishly difficult problem."  Dr. Thomas Nagel, professor, New York University, in the Times Literary Supplement.

"Meyer demolishes the materlialist superstition at the core of evolutionary biology by exposing its Achilles' heel:  its utter blindness to the origins of information.  With the recognition that cells function as fast as supercomputers and as fruitfully as so many factories, the case for a mindless cosmos collapses.  His refutation of Richard Dawkins will have all the dogs barking and the angels singing."  George Gilder, author of Wealth and Poverty and Telecosm.

"A 'must read' for all serious students of the origin-of-life debate.  Not only is it a comprehensive defense of the theory of intelligent design, it is a lucid and rigorous exposition of the various dimensions of the scientific method."  Alastair Noble, Ph.D., chemistry, former BBC education officer and Her Majesty's Inspector of Schools for Science, Scotland.

"The origin of life remains one of the great unsolved mysteries of modern science.  Looking beyond the biochemistry of the problem and focusing instead on the origin and information content of the 'code of life,' Meyer has written an eminently readable and engaging account of the quest to solve this mystery."  Edward Peltzer, Ph.D., ocean chemistry, from Scripps Institution of Oceanography.

"How does an intelligent person become a proponent of intelligent design?  Anyone who stereotypes IDers as antiscientific ideologues or fundamentalists should read Dr. Meyer's compelling intellectual memoir."  Dr. Marvin Olasky, provost, The King's College, New York City, and editor-in-chief, World.

"In this engaging narrative, Meyer demonstrates what I as a chemist have long suspected:  undirected chemical processes cannot produce the exquisite complexity of the living cell.  He also shows compelling positive evidence for intelligent design in the digital code stored in the cell's DNA.  A decisive case based upon breathtaking and cutting-edge science."   Dr. Philip S. Skell, National Academy of Sciences and Evan Pugh Professor, emeritus, at Pennsylvania State University

"Meyer gives us a fascinating exploration of the case for intelligent design theory, woven skillfully around a compelling account of his own journey.  Along the way, he effectively dispels the most pernicious caricatures that intelligent design is simply warmed-over creationism, the province of deluded foods and morons, or a dangerous political conspiracy.  Whether you believe intelligent design is true or false, Signature in the Cell is a mus-read book."  Dr. Scott Turner, professor of environmental and forest biology, State University of New York, and author of The Tinkerer's Accomplice:  How Design Emerges from Life Itself

"Meyer has provided no less than a blueprint for twenty-first-century biological science -- one that decisively shifts the discipline's century of gravity from nineteenth-century Darwinian preoccupations with fossils and field studies to the computerized, lab-based molecular genetics that underwrites the increasingly technological turn in the life sciences.  After this book, readers will wonder whether anything more than sentimentality lies behind the continued association of Darwin's name with 'modern biology.'"

"The astonishing complexities of DNA have raised questions which the ruling scientific orthodoxy cannot begin to answer....  Steve Meyer guides us lucidly through that labyrinth of questions opened by discoveries in molecular biology on the frontier of scientific knowledge."  Christopher Booker, The Sunday Telegraph.

"A delightful read... Meyer has marshaled a formidable array of evidence from fields as diverse as biochemistry, philosophy, and information theory.  He deals fairly and thoroughly with even the most controversial aspects and has made a compelling case for his conclusion."  Dr. John C. Walton, professor or organic chemistry, Unversity of St. Andrews, Scotland.

"This book is a landmark in the intelligent design debate and one which accurately draws together al relevant scientific research and information.  It is elegantly written in a style that is accessible and laced with interesting historical and personal anecdotes.  Signature in the Ce4ll will pay rich dividends to everyone who turns its pages."   Dr. Norman C. Nevin, professor emeritus in medical genetics, Queen's University, Belfast, Fellow of the Royal College of Physicians.

     Dr. Stephen C. Meyer received his Ph.D. from the University of Cambridge in the philosophy of science and is the director of the Center for Science and Culture at the Discovery Institute in Seattle.  Meyer has been featured on national television and radio programs, including The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer, CBS's Sunday Morning, NBC Nightly News, ABC's World News, Good Morning America, Nightline, FOX News Live, and Tavis Smiley, and has been featured in two New York Times front-page stories.  Visit the author online at www.stephencmeyer.org

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Edited March 11, 2018 by Mary8
continue.

[JohnR7]

3 hours ago, Yowm said:

 

That is not the point. If you are going to side with theistic evolution on this forum (a theory that is blatantly unscriptural and compromising) then you need to defend it using Scripture. Introducing so called 'experts' will not cut it. I am familiar with the theories and realize they do not accord with Scripture but are a product of some theologians trying to look 'respectable' amongst their 'sophisticated' colleagues.

The state requires evolution to be taught. Do you feel you could win your case in a court of law?  The problem is if you want to win in court then you have to come up with something better then the theory of evolution. You have to write a better biology book then the they are currently using. Are you able to do that?  Just exactly what is it in the biology book that you object to and have a problem with? What do you object to them teaching our children in the public school system?

[JohnR7]

3 hours ago, Yowm said:

Do you believe that the Scriptures are fully inspired by God and are without error, yes or no?

yes, I believe the Bible is fully inspired by God in the original language, esp the Hebrew.  Although you do not seem to want to hear my reason for why I believe that.

[john1]

On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 12:12 PM, JohnR7 said:

Then forbid them to eat the fruit from this tree?

We know God knew that they would eat of this tree.

 

Ephesians chapter 2 verse 10

For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
 

[Your closest friendnt]

On 3/9/2018 at 12:12 PM, JohnR7 said:

Genesis 2: 16The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." 

There is a lot I do not understand about this tree of knowledge. Why would God plant a tree with fruit that: "was a delight to the eyes".  Then forbid them to eat the fruit from this tree?

Genesis 3 6"When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate"

Genesis 1:31  31"God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good."

IF everything God made was good then where did the evil come from?  Why did God plant this tree if it was not good for them? If day means day then why did they not die the day they ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?  

Also I wonder about Ezekiel when he talks about the Cedar trees of Lebanon. 

Ezekiel 31 "9'I made it beautiful with the multitude of its branches, And all the trees of Eden, which were in the garden of God, were jealous of it.

If all of the tree of Eden were Jealous of the cedar in Lebanon, does that mean Lebanon was better than Eden back in it's days of purity?  Also how can a tree be "Jealous", do they have feeling?  Could a tree talk like a snake could talk back in the days of Eden? 

And there is more about trees: 

And the trees of the field shal clap their hands and shout with joy. 

What do you say about this one. 

What do you think that means . 

[JohnR7]

9 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

And there is more about trees: 

And the trees of the field shal clap their hands and shout with joy. 

What do you say about this one. 

What do you think that means . 

There are a lot of ways to answer that question. Let me tell you my story. I use to like to go out on the trails. They have a rail to trails program when the old rails routes are converted into a trail that we can hike on or ride a bicycle on. One trail I enjoy goes along the river. It is very common for people to talk to each other out on the trails. It is a fairly friendly place to be. Only sometimes people have earplugs and they are listening to their music. So if you want to talk to them they have to remove the ear plugs so they can hear what you have to say.  Now for me this is very difficult for me to understand and I will tell you why. I do not understand why they would bring the music or the sounds of the city with them. For me I can hear the sound of the water in the river. I can hear the sound of the wind as the wind moves the leaves of the tree.  I can hear the animals and the crickets and the birds. There is plenty of music and even rejoicing and yet people want to block out the music that the wind and the trees make to listen to whatever is on their earplugs.  Maybe they do not have ears that can hear so someone has to hear for them and then use instruments to play the music for them. 

Another answer for this is what it is going to be like in Heaven where we are told that we will be able to talk to the trees or at least the trees will talk to us on a level greater than what we find here on earth. When I am out on the trails sometimes I see a wild flower that is very pretty and I would like to take it home with me. In haven I am sure if we are walking in the friendly tree forest and we make friends with a tree there, then it will be very easy for us to take that tree home with us so that tree can become a part of our property there in Heaven. What we call our yard here.  Either our back yard or our front yard.  Then perhaps the friendly tree would rejoice that we are friends with the tree and we want the tree to be a part of our life. At least that is what they tell us Heaven is like and we are to live "as it is in Heaven" even though we are still here on the Earth. So we know that trees rejoice and are happy when God rejoices and is happy. Although for us this has to do with the wind and the tree.  Just like for some the "colors in the wind" in the song that Pocahontas sings to John Smith has to do with the leaves in the fall blowing in the wind and the color in those leaves. 

[Your closest friendnt]

On 3/12/2018 at 10:16 AM, JohnR7 said:

There are a lot of ways to answer that question. Let me tell you my story. I use to like to go out on the trails. They have a rail to trails program when the old rails routes are converted into a trail that we can hike on or ride a bicycle on. One trail I enjoy goes along the river. It is very common for people to talk to each other out on the trails. It is a fairly friendly place to be. Only sometimes people have earplugs and they are listening to their music. So if you want to talk to them they have to remove the ear plugs so they can hear what you have to say.  Now for me this is very difficult for me to understand and I will tell you why. I do not understand why they would bring the music or the sounds of the city with them. For me I can hear the sound of the water in the river. I can hear the sound of the wind as the wind moves the leaves of the tree.  I can hear the animals and the crickets and the birds. There is plenty of music and even rejoicing and yet people want to block out the music that the wind and the trees make to listen to whatever is on their earplugs.  Maybe they do not have ears that can hear so someone has to hear for them and then use instruments to play the music for them. 

Another answer for this is what it is going to be like in Heaven where we are told that we will be able to talk to the trees or at least the trees will talk to us on a level greater than what we find here on earth. When I am out on the trails sometimes I see a wild flower that is very pretty and I would like to take it home with me. In haven I am sure if we are walking in the friendly tree forest and we make friends with a tree there, then it will be very easy for us to take that tree home with us so that tree can become a part of our property there in Heaven. What we call our yard here.  Either our back yard or our front yard.  Then perhaps the friendly tree would rejoice that we are friends with the tree and we want the tree to be a part of our life. At least that is what they tell us Heaven is like and we are to live "as it is in Heaven" even though we are still here on the Earth. So we know that trees rejoice and are happy when God rejoices and is happy. Although for us this has to do with the wind and the tree.  Just like for some the "colors in the wind" in the song that Pocahontas sings to John Smith has to do with the leaves in the fall blowing in the wind and the color in those leaves. 

Hello, and I want to apologize for not responding earlier, life is very hestic at times. 

Thank for your reply, I am going to look up both the scriptures about "the cedars of Libanon" and the "trees of the field clap their hands and shout with joy", look in the contex. 

One more did the donkey talk? 

This is diferent than the other two, who seems to be metafors, representing some kind of a part or group of a division of the main unit. Like jews and Gentiles. 

Like the east and the west, or the north and the south. 

I would like to know if that make any sense. 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

On ‎3‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 7:42 AM, Butero said:

Of course the fruit of the tree was what opened their eyes to see they were naked.  It is called the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.  The lengths people will to through to prove their doctrine is amazing.  In order to try to show God doesn't create anything evil, now we are told the fruit of this tree did nothing.  That is just not true.  I suppose next we will be told the tree of life did nothing either.  It was a placebo effect that if you at of that fruit, you would live forever.  

LOL, "placebo effect?"   You really need to look that phrase up.   A placebo is an ineffective treatment of a medical condition and is used to make the patient think they are getting a real drug, when in fact, it might be a sugar pill and that has no effect at all on their condition.   That has nothing to do  with the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

And you are confusing the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil with the Tree of Life.  It was from the Tree of Life that a person could eat and live forever.

The tree was not in and of itself sinful or evil.  In fact had Adam and Eve passed the test, they likely would have been allowed to eat from that tree later, on. 

The Bible never blames the tree. The Bible blames Adam's disobedience for the Fall of man.  It was not fruit that caused the fall.  It's not saying that tree did nothing, but the tree was not direct or even proximal cause for the Fall. 

Adam's sin is what the Bible focuses on, not the tree.   The tree was no more good nor evil than anything else.

Edited March 14, 2018 by shiloh357