Eleven Old Testament Prophets teach that Jesus Christ is Jehovah God on 16 Occasions

[KiwiChristian]

21 hours ago, TrevorL said:

Greetings again KiwiChristian,

 

Not all translators have been Trinitarians. Please consider Tyndale’s translation of Exodus 3:14:

Exodus 3:12-14 (Tyndale): 12 And he sayde: I wilbe with the. And this shalbe a token vnto the that I haue sent the: after that thou hast broughte the people out of Egipte, ye shall serue God vppon this mountayne. 13 Than sayde Moses vnto God: when I come vnto the childern of Israell and saye vnto them, the God of youre fathers hath sent me vnto you, ad they saye vnto me, what ys his name, what answere shall I geuethem? 14 Then sayde God vnto Moses: I wilbe what I wilbe: ad he sayde, this shalt thou saye vnto the children of Israel: I wilbe dyd send me to you.

Now I do not know if Tyndale was a Trinitarian or not, but somewhere between the 1520s and 1611 there was a change agreed upon regarding Exodus 3:14. I do not know how many of the intervening Bibles translated this as “I will be”, but Tyndale understood “Ehyeh” as “I will be” in both Exodus 3:12 and Exodus 3:14, while the KJV translators translated “Ehyeh” as “I will be” in Exodus 3:12 and “I AM” in Exodus 3:14.

 

I have mainly used the KJV. I now also use an interlinear RV/KJV when I read a chapter of the Bible each morning. I now also read from a NASB Study Bible in most of our meetings. Usually the reader or speaker uses the KJV, but not exclusively. If I study a chapter or verse I sometimes compare a number of translations, and use a few reference books for understanding the range of meaning for a particular word.

 

Judges and also Angels are sometimes referred to, by using the word “Elohim”, and this is because they represent God, not because they are God. I believe that there is only one God the Father, and that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God. When the Divine titles and Name are used for Jesus, it is because he represents His Father, not because He is God Himself.

 

Kind regards
Trevor

Again:

 

The Bible is not a book but a collection of 66 books, written over a span of 1600 years across 3 continents, by over 40 writers inspired by God in 3 languages yet it has ONE primary theme ( The Glory of God and salvation of mankind ) and zero errors or contradictions.

Ignore the word "trinity". its not important.
God is everlasting, eternal, without beginning or end. God is unchanging, infinite,  omnipresence, omniscient , self-existent, self-sufficient, immaterial and omnipotent
There is only ONE God. God Himself says He knows of NO OTHER GOD and if He is all-knowing, He would know if there was any other Gods.
The Bible says that God the father is God.
The Bible says that Jesus is God. John 8:58, John 1:1, John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8, Isaiah 44:6 ( crossreference  Revelation 1:17 )
The Bible says that the Holy Spirit is God. Acts 5:3,4. Romans 8:11
The Bible also says there is ONE God. DEUTERONOMY 6:4, DEUTERONOMY 4:35,39, DEUTERONOMY 32:39, 2 SAMUEL 7:22, 1 KINGS 8:60, 2 KINGS 5:15 , 2 KINGS 19:15,  NEHEMIAH 9:6,  PSALM 18:31 ( Which also states Jesus is God ),  PSALM 86:1, ISAIAH 37:16,20, ISAIAH 43:10,11, ISAIAH 44:6,8, ISAIAH 45:21, ISAIAH 46:9, HOSEA 13:4, MARK 12:29-34, ROMANS 3:30, 1 CORINTHIANS 8:4-6, 1 TIMOTHY 2:5.
Therefore, somehow, these three entities constitute the one, eternal, everlasting God.
We are not told HOW God is God, that is not important. God just tells us thats the way it is.

[TrevorL]

Greetings again KiwiChristian,

47 minutes ago, KiwiChristian said:

What texts or manuscripts did tyndale use?

Most probably the best that was available in his day. Please note that much of the KJV is attributed to the Tyndale translation and some of the memorable portions of the KJV including some of the words that Tyndale coined. The KJV translators did not openly acknowledge their reliance on Tyndale, because the CofE had persecuted and killed Tyndale.

47 minutes ago, KiwiChristian said:

ego eimi is I AM

Yes, and “Ehyeh” is “I will be”.

42 minutes ago, KiwiChristian said:

The Bible is not a book but a collection of 66 books, written over a span of 1600 years across 3 continents, by over 40 writers inspired by God in 3 languages yet it has ONE primary theme ( The Glory of God and salvation of mankind ) and zero errors or contradictions.

The Bible we have on our desk would be without error if we had a photocopy of the inspired original scrolls and manuscripts. They would be in Hebrew, Chaldee and Greek. Unfortunately we do not have an exact copy of these, but there exists various old manuscripts including the Dead Sea scrolls, and from these many attempts have been made to translate these into English. What particular version do you use and endorse as being the best and most accurate translation?

43 minutes ago, KiwiChristian said:

Ignore the word "trinity". its not important.
God is everlasting, eternal, without beginning or end. God is unchanging, infinite,  omnipresence, omniscient , self-existent, self-sufficient, immaterial and omnipotent
There is only ONE God. God Himself says He knows of NO OTHER GOD and if He is all-knowing, He would know if there was any other Gods.
The Bible says that God the father is God.

Yes, the Scriptures teach that there is One God the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Kind regards Trevor

[brakelite]

2 hours ago, KiwiChristian said:

Again:

 

The Bible is not a book but a collection of 66 books, written over a span of 1600 years across 3 continents, by over 40 writers inspired by God in 3 languages yet it has ONE primary theme ( The Glory of God and salvation of mankind ) and zero errors or contradictions.

Ignore the word "trinity". its not important.
God is everlasting, eternal, without beginning or end. God is unchanging, infinite,  omnipresence, omniscient , self-existent, self-sufficient, immaterial and omnipotent
There is only ONE God. God Himself says He knows of NO OTHER GOD and if He is all-knowing, He would know if there was any other Gods.
The Bible says that God the father is God.
The Bible says that Jesus is God. John 8:58, John 1:1, John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8, Isaiah 44:6 ( crossreference  Revelation 1:17 )
The Bible says that the Holy Spirit is God. Acts 5:3,4. Romans 8:11
The Bible also says there is ONE God. DEUTERONOMY 6:4, DEUTERONOMY 4:35,39, DEUTERONOMY 32:39, 2 SAMUEL 7:22, 1 KINGS 8:60, 2 KINGS 5:15 , 2 KINGS 19:15,  NEHEMIAH 9:6,  PSALM 18:31 ( Which also states Jesus is God ),  PSALM 86:1, ISAIAH 37:16,20, ISAIAH 43:10,11, ISAIAH 44:6,8, ISAIAH 45:21, ISAIAH 46:9, HOSEA 13:4, MARK 12:29-34, ROMANS 3:30, 1 CORINTHIANS 8:4-6, 1 TIMOTHY 2:5.
Therefore, somehow, these three entities constitute the one, eternal, everlasting God.
We are not told HOW God is God, that is not important. God just tells us thats the way it is.

You say that the word trinity isn't important, yet in history people have been executed for not accepting it. Along with Sunday sacredness the trinity is the foundation of Catholicism. That makes it very important for Protestants also who claim to have scripture as the basis for faith and practice yet by cleaving resolutely to both the trinity and Sunday, follow Catholic tradition. And term those who accept neither of these teachings as heretics. Seems fairly important to me. 

So while I agree with the scriptures you have presented, what I disagree with is their application as given in the creeds. So while it is true that the holy Spirit is divine, the creeds go beyond that in claiming the Spirit as an independent being who is God. It is similar with the only begotten Son Who it is claimed is equal to the Father in all things which destroys the whole concept of Father and Son. I notice you have avoided the issue of Father and Son in your presentation above, yet belief in the Father/Son concept is essential to salvation...trinity is not.

See 1 John 1:1-3; 1 John 2:22-24; 1 John 4:9,10,14,15; 1 John 5:1-5, 9-13, 20; John 5:26,27,30; 17:3; Matt. 16:15-18.

As for the holy Spirit, please consider carefully the following...

Romans 8:9; 1 Cor. 8:6; Gal. 4:4-6; Eph. 4:6

Some supplementary questions:

1. If a non-trinitarian declares his doubts on that concept, yet maintains his faith in Jesus being the Son of God, why is Jesus's divinity brought into question?

2. Why is a concept or formula which arose in the 4th century considered a better means by which to ascribe divinity to Christ than the declaration of Peter, approved by God Himself, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God?"

3. Why is it so essential to make the Father and Son of equal ages in order to fully establish the divinity of Jesus particularly in light of Colossians 2:9?

4. Why can we not simply accept the Bible testimony regarding the one true God, instead of denying, reasoning, and teaching something contrary? 1 Cor 8:6...John 17:3....Ephesians 4:6.....1 Cor. 11:3....Eph. 1: 15-17.

[KiwiChristian]

10 minutes ago, brakelite said:

You say that the word trinity isn't important, yet in history people have been executed for not accepting it. Along with Sunday sacredness the trinity is the foundation of Catholicism. That makes it very important for Protestants also who claim to have scripture as the basis for faith and practice yet by cleaving resolutely to both the trinity and Sunday, follow Catholic tradition. And term those who accept neither of these teachings as heretics. Seems fairly important to me. 

So while I agree with the scriptures you have presented, what I disagree with is their application as given in the creeds. So while it is true that the holy Spirit is divine, the creeds go beyond that in claiming the Spirit as an independent being who is God. It is similar with the only begotten Son Who it is claimed is equal to the Father in all things which destroys the whole concept of Father and Son. I notice you have avoided the issue of Father and Son in your presentation above, yet belief in the Father/Son concept is essential to salvation...trinity is not.

See 1 John 1:1-3; 1 John 2:22-24; 1 John 4:9,10,14,15; 1 John 5:1-5, 9-13, 20; John 5:26,27,30; 17:3; Matt. 16:15-18.

As for the holy Spirit, please consider carefully the following...

Romans 8:9; 1 Cor. 8:6; Gal. 4:4-6; Eph. 4:6

Some supplementary questions:

1. If a non-trinitarian declares his doubts on that concept, yet maintains his faith in Jesus being the Son of God, why is Jesus's divinity brought into question?

2. Why is a concept or formula which arose in the 4th century considered a better means by which to ascribe divinity to Christ than the declaration of Peter, approved by God Himself, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God?"

3. Why is it so essential to make the Father and Son of equal ages in order to fully establish the divinity of Jesus particularly in light of Colossians 2:9?

4. Why can we not simply accept the Bible testimony regarding the one true God, instead of denying, reasoning, and teaching something contrary? 1 Cor 8:6...John 17:3....Ephesians 4:6.....1 Cor. 11:3....Eph. 1: 15-17.

do you really want me to answer your questions?

[brakelite]

1 hour ago, KiwiChristian said:

do you really want me to answer your questions?

No, not really...just for consideration.

[KiwiChristian]

On 3/13/2018 at 9:28 PM, brakelite said:

No, not really...just for consideration.

Didnt think so.

 

Dont confuse me with the facts, my mind is already made up, huh.

[KiwiChristian]

[KiwiChristian]

[KiwiChristian]

[OneLight]

On 3/10/2018 at 4:21 AM, KiwiChristian said:

Eleven Old Testament Prophets teach that Jesus Christ is Jehovah God on 16 Occasions

1. Moses: The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob Who appeared to Moses at the burning bush revealed His Name as ‘I AM’ (Exodus 3:14,15). Jesus revealed that He was the true God by stating that ‘Before Abraham was, I AM’, and ‘If ye believe not that I am, ye shall die in your sins.’ (John 8:58,24).

2. David: God told David that David’s son would be David’s God. ‘The LORD (Jehovah) said unto my Lord (Adonai), Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.’ (Psalm 110:1). Jesus applied this to Himself in Matthew 22:41-45 as a question: ‘If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?’ This shows that Jesus Christ would be both a man descended from David and David’s God.

3. Solomon: God has a son. ‘What is his name, and what is his son’s name?’ (Proverbs 30:4).

4. Isaiah: a) The Mighty God would be both man and God the Son. ‘For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: ..And his name shall be called …the Mighty God…’ (Isaiah 9:6).
b) God the Son who created the heavens and the earth, would be sent to earth by Jehovah the Father and by God the Holy Spirit to save man. (Isaiah 48:12,13,16).
c) Isaiah saw the King, Jehovah of hosts on the throne in heaven, who asked Isaiah ‘who will go for us?’ (Isaiah 6:1-8,5). (‘us’=trinity). In John 12:37-41, John said of Jesus, ‘These things said Esaias when he saw his (Jesus) glory, and spake of him (Jesus).’ Jesus was the King, Jehovah of hosts that Isaiah saw.

5. Jeremiah: ‘Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch (Jesus’ humanity), and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Jehovah) OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS (Jesus’ Deity).’ (Jeremiah 23:5,6).

6. Ezekiel: Ezekiel prophesied that the east gate of Jerusalem will be shut, as it is today, ‘because the LORD (Jehovah), the God of Israel, has entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut.’ (Ezekiel 44:1,2). Question: When did Jehovah, the God of Israel enter the east gate of Jerusalem? It was when Jesus Christ entered it on Palm Sunday before His crucifixion in Luke 19:28-48. He rode a donkey from the Mount of Olives through the east gate into the temple situated just behind it. This proves that Jesus is God.

7. Daniel: a) When King Nebuchadnezzar threw the 3 Hebrew men into the furnace, he saw a fourth person walking in the furnace and protecting them, who was identified as the Son of God (Daniel 3:25).
b) The Son of man (Christ) came to the Ancient of days (God the Father) to receive the kingdom (7:9-14).

8. Hosea: Jehovah will return to ‘my place’ (heaven), till the Jews admit their offence of killing Jesus. ‘Hear the word of the LORD (Jehovah) (4:1),.I will go and return to my place (heaven), till they (Jews) acknowledge their offence (of killing Jesus), and seek my face: in their affliction (7 year tribulation) they (Jews) will seek me early.’ Jehovah the Son came from heaven to be born of Mary as a man, he was rejected and crucified by the Jews. The resurrected Lord Jesus returned to heaven. Jesus will only return when the Jews acknowledge their offence of killing Jesus. This occurs after the 7 year tribulation.

9. Micah: Micah prophesied that the eternal second member of the trinity would be born as a human baby in Bethlehem in Micah 5:2, ‘But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he (Jesus Christ, God the Son) come forth unto me (God the Father) that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting’.

10. Zechariah: a) ‘Thus saith the LORD (Jehovah) my God; (v.4). If ye think good, give me my price; So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver (v.12)….I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD’ (Zechariah 11:4,12,13). These three prophecies were fulfilled in Judas betraying Jesus Christ in Matthew 26:14-16 and 27:3-10.
b) When Jesus Christ returns to earth, He is identified as Jehovah God whom Israel pierced on the cross. ‘I (Jehovah) will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem,...they (Israel) shall look upon me (Jehovah) whom they have pierced’ (Zechariah 12:9-10). Jesus fulfilled this in John 19:37.
c) When Jesus Christ returns to earth on the Mount of Olives, He is identified as Jehovah God (Zech 14).
‘Then shall the LORD (Jehovah) go forth and fight against those nations,…And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives (v.3-4)....the LORD (Jehovah) my God shall come, and all the saints with thee (v.5)….the LORD (Jehovah) shall be king over all the earth …’ (Zechariah 14:3,4,5,9). When Jesus ascended to heaven from the Mount of Olives, two angels told those witnesses present that ‘this same Jesus shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.’ (Acts 1:10-11).

11. Malachi: Malachi wrote of ‘the Lord (Adonai, God) whom you seek shall suddenly come to his temple (in Jerusalem).’ (Malachi 3:1). Jesus fulfilled this in John 2:13-21 at the start of His ministry. 
 

One question ... do you believe in the Oneness theology?