JoeCanada Posted March 20, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 74 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,238 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 669 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/26/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted March 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Last Daze said: When was the first trump? The very first trump blown by God is in Exodus. I couldn't find one before that... So it came about on the third day, when it was morning, that there were thunder and lightning flashes and a thick cloud upon the mountain and a very loud trumpet sound, so that all the people who were in the camp trembled…. Now Mount Sinai was all in smoke because the LORD descended upon it in fire; and its smoke ascended like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain quaked violently. When the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder, Moses spoke and God answered him with thunder. (Ex 19:13-19) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted March 20, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,987 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 2,517 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 20, 2018 56 minutes ago, JoeCanada said: The very first trump blown by God is in Exodus. I couldn't find one before that... So it came about on the third day, when it was morning, that there were thunder and lightning flashes and a thick cloud upon the mountain and a very loud trumpet sound, so that all the people who were in the camp trembled…. Now Mount Sinai was all in smoke because the LORD descended upon it in fire; and its smoke ascended like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain quaked violently. When the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder, Moses spoke and God answered him with thunder. (Ex 19:13-19) I agree. Where do you see Zechariah 9:14 fitting in? Is it the last? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted March 21, 2018 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 10 hours ago, JoeCanada said: The very first trump blown by God is in Exodus. I couldn't find one before that... So it came about on the third day, when it was morning, that there were thunder and lightning flashes and a thick cloud upon the mountain and a very loud trumpet sound, so that all the people who were in the camp trembled…. Now Mount Sinai was all in smoke because the LORD descended upon it in fire; and its smoke ascended like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain quaked violently. When the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder, Moses spoke and God answered him with thunder. (Ex 19:13-19) Gonna switch it up for a sec,just for a second When I say Israel has always been the Church,you all(rapturist)say Old Testament had nothing to do with it,yet now you bring in the trumpet from the Old,makes no sense ,seems you all pick and choose  Anyway ,will explain the last and the 7th in a sec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted March 21, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 21, 2018 "When I say Israel has always been the Church,you all(rapturist)say Old Testament had nothing to do with it,yet now you bring in the trumpet from the Old,makes no sense ,seems you all pick and choose"  Some of the prophecies in the OT are complete .... but some are still pending and waiting for the 70th week decreed for Israel You have problems with what has happened and what is still to come You also need to know that Israel is not the Church 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted March 21, 2018 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said: Some of the prophecies in the OT are complete .... but some are still pending and waiting for the 70th week decreed for Israel You have problems with what has happened and what is still to come You also need to know that Israel is not the Church Revelation 11:15 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of Our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever." Kingdom comes right? I Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;" I Corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." Changed to what?Our spiritual bodies ,correct?  We can't be changed until He returns,and there are no multiple changes...  As for Israel,what will Christ be at His return,Israel or the Church? Edited March 21, 2018 by n2thelight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted March 21, 2018 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 okay,if the last trump is not the 7th,what's the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted March 21, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 21, 2018 The 7th judgment trumpet sounds during the tribulation period as the last judgment But the 8th trumpet will sound for Israel just after the tribulation period [Matthew 24:29-31] Matthew 24 is all about Israel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted March 21, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 97 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,039 Content Per Day: 1.47 Reputation: 2,541 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted March 21, 2018 On 3/20/2018 at 9:07 AM, Last Daze said: When was the first trump? As Joe Canada correctly stated, at Mount Sinai. The tradition Paul seems to be following dates back to Abraham. He was reputed to have cut off the horns of the ram slain in place of his son Isaac on Mount Moriah, where Jesus was also crucified. He made shofars from the two horns: the First was blown to announce God's Judgment from Mount Sinai, and the Last will be blown to announce God's Judgment from heavenly Mount Zion. Two horns (only) for the two great judgments. Has nothing whatsoever to do with the 7 trumpets of Revelation, which Paul knew nothing about. (Where is anyone's evidence for that belief? No such evidence is found in the Bible, it is all merely speculation. Likewise for the shofar of Zech. 9:14.) Note that Paul spoke about the Last Trumpet to the Church without explanation, as if his audience would have understood the context of his message. (Paul was not shy about explaining new teachings.) The ancient prophecy of the first and last shofars had undoubtedly been passed on to the Corinthian Church by Paul and other Jewish elders, because the Church in those days was expecting the Lord’s Coming soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joulre2abba Posted March 22, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 463 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/08/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2018 On 3/15/2018 at 3:15 AM, n2thelight said: Paul says we gather to Christ at the last trump,how can the 7th of Rev,not be the last? It looks to me like you are going by a simple attempt at connecting two separate occurrences by their similar use of the word "trump". You equate the 7th trump in Revelation as being "the last" and therefore it's the same as "the last trump" in the Corinthian text. But there's no supportive study behind your assumption. Read the context of each text. Notice that they both occur at different timeframes. The text in Corinthians is referring to the last trump which is a Jewish observance that occurs each year throughout the entire church age, while the 7th trump occurs once in it's due time during the Tribulation. The gathering of Christ is a specific term or phrase that is used in the same way that we speak of the rapture of the church. The last trump is a reference to the specific blowing of the shofar horn during the observance of the Jewish Feast of Trumpets. The last trump is the final note within a series of notes that are blown. The last note is sustained for as long as the person has breath. [find a video and listen to the series of notes, then the last note]. According to the Jewish information, that last note is in connection with the resurrection of the dead as Paul writes of in Thessalonians. Each observance of the Feast of Trumpets is a rehearsal until the actual fulfilling of that Feast. The seventh trumpet of Revelation has it's own surrounding circumstances. The trumpet sound is only an alert that herald's the circumstances that occur. That 7th trump being last in the series of 1-7 has no connection with "the last trump" blown at the Feast of Trumpets. This is just a small amount of the information that needs to be studied in order to get a full understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted March 23, 2018 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 23, 2018 Okay let's look at them all I Corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. I Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;" Revelation 11:15 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of Our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever." Matthew 24:31 "And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." All of the above are the last,all are speaking of the same event.... All ends this earth age   Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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